Really? How many hours a week do you work? Do you work in a safe envronment? Do you get sick pay, holidays off paid, vacation time?
Tom
Trucker's Strike on April 1
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Really? How many hours a week do you work? Do you work in a safe envronment? Do you get sick pay, holidays off paid, vacation time?
Tom
gary s
Well-Known Member
oh yes,
i am in mgmt so i am salary, sometimes i could work 60 hours, sometimes 30 hours. i do what has to get done regardless.
safe enviorment, yes we are inspected by ny state, osha and c.a.p. at least every year.
yes, i get 7 weeks off a year.
i helped build our company into a 165 million dollar comapny from the ground up, so i am very thankful for what our NON-UNION company has achieved. all hard work from everyone who put in so much effort without that union mentality ( i.e.: it's not my job )
your point?
i am in mgmt so i am salary, sometimes i could work 60 hours, sometimes 30 hours. i do what has to get done regardless.
safe enviorment, yes we are inspected by ny state, osha and c.a.p. at least every year.
yes, i get 7 weeks off a year.
i helped build our company into a 165 million dollar comapny from the ground up, so i am very thankful for what our NON-UNION company has achieved. all hard work from everyone who put in so much effort without that union mentality ( i.e.: it's not my job )
your point?
Unions have done more for you than you know. Vacation time? OSHA? Man-o-man, the Unions have done plenty for you.
You forget, it was because people stood together and said we want representation did things change for the better. Sick time, vacation time, a safe work place was all fought for by union labor. We all benefitted from Union labor. We may choose to pretend it isn't true.
Rest assured, it is true.
My job is to work hard at work. My job is to do the best job I can do. I have the Union Mentality. Do you go out and wash the cars in the parking lot when you get a break?
Tom
You forget, it was because people stood together and said we want representation did things change for the better. Sick time, vacation time, a safe work place was all fought for by union labor. We all benefitted from Union labor. We may choose to pretend it isn't true.
Rest assured, it is true.
My job is to work hard at work. My job is to do the best job I can do. I have the Union Mentality. Do you go out and wash the cars in the parking lot when you get a break?
Tom
gary s
Well-Known Member
tom,
as you know my trac is my company vehicle. i can easilly take it to the car wash where we have an account, but i choose to wash it myself.
i am not doubting you work hard, but do you work harder than any non-union employees?
as you know my trac is my company vehicle. i can easilly take it to the car wash where we have an account, but i choose to wash it myself.
i am not doubting you work hard, but do you work harder than any non-union employees?
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
There was a time when labor unions were much more relevant than they are now. It's a big debate as to whether they are relevant today or not (click below)...
But like most things when guaging relevance, I have to ask:
"What have they done for us lately?"
But like most things when guaging relevance, I have to ask:
"What have they done for us lately?"
Depends on how you look at it. Do I work harder as a union Boilermaker than I did before I was in the Union? Some days I do, some day's I don't. When I worked non-union, I would climb to the top of a 200' tall water tower. I do not do that today. When I was non-union, there would be many days that I would do nothing for 8 hours. i got those days more often then than I do now.
The company I work for has a shop in another state that does essentially the same thing as we do. We get more done in less time than they do. Do they work harder than us? I don;t know.
You still never answered my question. Do you wash cars in the parking lot when you get a break from your work?
I take it the answer is no.
Would you appreciate it if someone deceided to take it upon themself to sit at your desk and start doing your job? That is not thier job, it is your job. Anything wrong with that?
Tom
The WSJ is a real independent newspaper. isn't it read by people that make more than 200,000 a year and those that pretend they are wealthy.
Tom
Tom
gary s
Well-Known Member
tom,
wow , i must not get it.
yea, like i said ,i wash my company vehicle
do you clean the company rest rooms?
probably NOT!
you are union, that is outside your job description :lol:
wow , i must not get it.
yea, like i said ,i wash my company vehicle
do you clean the company rest rooms?
probably NOT!
you are union, that is outside your job description :lol:
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen said:
So I guess you didn't read the article assuming it would have some anti-union bias?
Had you read the article you would have seen it was an interview with a union boss indicating how unions are relevant today more than ever.
Seems like the WSJ was "fair and balanced" on that article.
TJR
So I guess you didn't read the article assuming it would have some anti-union bias?
Had you read the article you would have seen it was an interview with a union boss indicating how unions are relevant today more than ever.
Seems like the WSJ was "fair and balanced" on that article.
TJR
Actually, no I do not. For health reasons, it is against company policy to have an employee that is not his job to clean the restrooms. We have a company that does that.
It is company policy, not negotiated in the contract.
You will not wash the other ehicles in the fleet.
TJR, yes I read the article.
Tom
Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
well this has some interesting read on it...check out what is being said. 2 pages of posts so far. pg 2 being the beginning. Enjoy
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
If you read the article and saw that it was a pro-union piece why bash the WSJ as being biased?
Clearly unions aren't that relevant today, or UAW membership wouldn't have dropped 14% this last year (another thread).
TJR
If you read the article and saw that it was a pro-union piece why bash the WSJ as being biased?
Clearly unions aren't that relevant today, or UAW membership wouldn't have dropped 14% this last year (another thread).
TJR
Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
a poll I found from that link:
View Poll Results: Would You Support A Truckers Strike?
I Am A Trucker: YES 454 52 61%
I Am A Trucker: NO 37 4. 29%
I Am NOT A Trucker: YES 273 31. 63%
I Am NOT A Trucker: NO 12 1.39%
Truckers Will NEVER Stand Together 87 10 08%
View Poll Results: Would You Support A Truckers Strike?
I Am A Trucker: YES 454 52 61%
I Am A Trucker: NO 37 4. 29%
I Am NOT A Trucker: YES 273 31. 63%
I Am NOT A Trucker: NO 12 1.39%
Truckers Will NEVER Stand Together 87 10 08%
I have read the WSJ many times. It is read by wealthy business owners. That is thier target audience.
Have you possibly thinkght that other things going on have something to do with it?
Tom
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
WSJ has more readers than the NYT... but hey, I guess facts STILL don't matter...
Unions or not, a striking trucker force is going to change NOTHING. You want real change (and no Barak Obama is not it) drill in ANWR, remove some of the BS regulation that is keeping refineries from being built and promote nuclear power. If it's good enough to power more than 60% of FRANCE, it should be good enough here.
By just allowing for domestic exploration it show organizations like OPEC that we are not going to be reliant on them to get our fuel and energy. If Cuba can drill 30 miles off Florida, why in hell can't we? Sierra Club. Surfrider's Foundation. Al Gore. Bastards.
Unions or not, a striking trucker force is going to change NOTHING. You want real change (and no Barak Obama is not it) drill in ANWR, remove some of the BS regulation that is keeping refineries from being built and promote nuclear power. If it's good enough to power more than 60% of FRANCE, it should be good enough here.
By just allowing for domestic exploration it show organizations like OPEC that we are not going to be reliant on them to get our fuel and energy. If Cuba can drill 30 miles off Florida, why in hell can't we? Sierra Club. Surfrider's Foundation. Al Gore. Bastards.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen said:
Sure, I thought that the following things might be a factor in UAW drop:
- Fewer jobs available and a dwindling pool of jobs in the future makes for a bad draw for new candidates.
- Many young people don't see the value in these types of jobs and would rather have other types of jobs.
- Young kids today are lazy (grin)
- etc...
Of course, those first two, and many other reasons I can think of are partially to blame on the unions. Unions are supposed to keep jobs. Unions are supposed to make jobs attractive by great pay, good working conditions, great benefits. Unions are supposed to work WITH companies, not against them to make this happen. Unions are supposed to be a value add that makes their employees better and therefore the company better.
So, if a union is doing all that, and doing it well, then there should be little reason highly sought jobs to be dropping, or the desire for them dropping.
Unless of course Ford, GM, etc. simply can't stay profitable enough to offer the jobs. Of course, we see that is exactly what is happening. And, if you ask Ford or GM execs why they can't be profitable and they all will invariably say because labor costs and employee/retiree benefits are killing them and for that they blame unions.
I've said it before, I will say it again: Good financial times hide all ills. When a market, like the US auto industry for example, is growing, everyone smokes big fat cigars and they think that the good times will last forever. They never do. All markets mature. The auto industry has matured. The models and ways of doing business during the market growth CANNOT sustain those after the maturation.
It's just a fact. GM and Ford are dinosaurs. They are too big, too bloated, too filled with "bad practices" to be able to avoid the meteor that is the market maturation. Because of that, they will evolve or die.
TJR
Sure, I thought that the following things might be a factor in UAW drop:
- Fewer jobs available and a dwindling pool of jobs in the future makes for a bad draw for new candidates.
- Many young people don't see the value in these types of jobs and would rather have other types of jobs.
- Young kids today are lazy (grin)
- etc...
Of course, those first two, and many other reasons I can think of are partially to blame on the unions. Unions are supposed to keep jobs. Unions are supposed to make jobs attractive by great pay, good working conditions, great benefits. Unions are supposed to work WITH companies, not against them to make this happen. Unions are supposed to be a value add that makes their employees better and therefore the company better.
So, if a union is doing all that, and doing it well, then there should be little reason highly sought jobs to be dropping, or the desire for them dropping.
Unless of course Ford, GM, etc. simply can't stay profitable enough to offer the jobs. Of course, we see that is exactly what is happening. And, if you ask Ford or GM execs why they can't be profitable and they all will invariably say because labor costs and employee/retiree benefits are killing them and for that they blame unions.
I've said it before, I will say it again: Good financial times hide all ills. When a market, like the US auto industry for example, is growing, everyone smokes big fat cigars and they think that the good times will last forever. They never do. All markets mature. The auto industry has matured. The models and ways of doing business during the market growth CANNOT sustain those after the maturation.
It's just a fact. GM and Ford are dinosaurs. They are too big, too bloated, too filled with "bad practices" to be able to avoid the meteor that is the market maturation. Because of that, they will evolve or die.
TJR
How much did the CEO's of Ford or GM make last year?
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen, how much CEOs made last year is a moot point. I made a true statement, and it is factual. The owners and execs blame in large part their inability to turn a profit on high labor and benefits cost. That is a fact. Those costs far outweigh any individual CEO salary and bonus. The costs are way too high.
Did you get the part where I said that the structure of pay, the structure of benefits, especially for retirees was simply something that couldn't be sustained; and was structured assuming good times (prosperity) would last forever? Those "sins" happened decades ago, before the obsence CEO pay that has been flaunted in the media the past few years (and who is to say it wasn't obscene too in the 50s and 60s)?
Also, I thought Ford CEO didn't take any pay the last several years?
TJR
Did you get the part where I said that the structure of pay, the structure of benefits, especially for retirees was simply something that couldn't be sustained; and was structured assuming good times (prosperity) would last forever? Those "sins" happened decades ago, before the obsence CEO pay that has been flaunted in the media the past few years (and who is to say it wasn't obscene too in the 50s and 60s)?
Also, I thought Ford CEO didn't take any pay the last several years?
TJR
Alan Mulaly made his fair share. Even losing money, he made more money than 431 hourly guys made.
Those are the guys that build the product. The un-important ones.
Tom
Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
this is from Feb 2008...
