THE INEQUALITY MYTH

[user 62394]

You know, frank, you almost made a rational argument in your last post -- you cited speeches and gave sources for stuff. I was almost ready to compliment you -- not that I agreed with you, but that maybe you had finally figured out how to make a point.



But then . .

You ridiculous men better wake up and smell the coffee. This president is the worst public figure in history. There ARE TWO AMERICAS. Those who live in REALITY and the 17 percent who are out of touch with reality. I cannot fathom that there are people who are fully functional in life that think everything is fine with our country.

You go, once again, back to your old standby of name calling. Apparently some of us (I assume that you are throwing me into this mix) are ridiculous and not functional in life.



Grow up, you'll feel better. I'll leave it to someone else to argue with you. I deal with children enough. (Darn it, now you got me calling people names. Pulled me down to your level)



Rocks

 

[Gavin Allan]

Frank, Eric, (anyone), please list some specific examples of how bad things are for you personally that are due to the actions of anyone in government. I don't care who caused the bad things, I just want to know about the bad things in your life and why you think everything in your life is so bad.



I honestly don't get what all the crisis is about. My life has never been better, but I hear all the horror stories about how bad we have it, and how the United States is a horrible country. The media is full of gloom and doom, but where is it?

 

[Eric Pennal]

Well, I guess since Gavin is doing so well, everyone should quit complaining.

I said this because I consider the Republicans to be the "I Got Mine" Party. I see this attitude coming from Conservatives, primarily. The prevailing sentiment seems to be, "I'm doing great, so everyone else can go pound sand."



I think 98% of people's problems can be traced back to their own poor judgment, but that doesn't mean some of them don't deserve a little empathy (and support) for their plight. When I see/hear people speaking from their "high horse" about how the less fortunate should quit complaining and get over it, I wonder how they would talk after they just got a layoff notice in this job market. It's better now, than it was when I got laid-off from a $62K a year job back in 2001. My wife and I were both working at Nortel Networks when we lost our jobs the same summer, during the Telecom meltdown. We're doing OK now, but we've have to struggle and fight every step of the way. We're not nearly as financially secure as we were. We lost most of our 401K's due to the telecom crash, and the subsequent struggle to find employment in a flat job market. Try looking for a job when thousands of unemployed workers hit the market at the same time - with mostly the same skills - while still trying to pay your mortgage and other bills on time, never knowing when (or if) you'll get an interview.



I recognize that we've been extremely lucky to eventually find decent jobs, but at nowhere near the salaries we became accustomed to. I also recognize that we're extremely lucky to have been born with many more advantages (into middle-class white families) than millions of Americans have. So, excuse me if I think the prevailing attitude I'm seeing from the well-to-do Conservatives in this thread, sounds a little arrogant and short-sighted.



edit: I apologize, if it sounds like I'm personally attacking you. It wasn't intended that way. This kind of stuff tends to irritate the crap outta me. I used to be a Republican until they became a bunch of fear-mongering neo-cons. Now I see how self-centered the Republican philosophy has become.

 

[Jeffrey Travis]

Try looking for a job when thousands of unemployed workers hit the market at the same time - with mostly the same skills - while still trying to pay your mortgage and other bills on time, never knowing when (or if) you'll get an interview.

Been there, done that 3 times.....landed on my feet, made my own breaks, kept on keeping on, or should I say I was a 'rugged individualist' much like our forefathers. I did not blame a Democrat or a Republican - it happens. We are in a global economy and we have to adapt.



Yes, job hunting is a job and it is the worst job you can ever have because so much is out of your hands. Hit the job boards, network and hope for the best. With a little luck you end up in the job of your dreams as I have attained by working for it and getting away from the woe is me attitude. I love my job, work with good people and get to laugh every day.

 

[Frank screwyourednecks]

Hey good post Eric P you hit on a few of the problems.



The outsourcing (lay offs) are a big problem. The establishment is in a hurry to globalize everything. This benefits no one but the corporate elite. Jobs disappear, profits move overseas, and OUR STANDARD OF LIVING GOES DOWN.



The dollar as I stated before has shrunk 45%. This is bunk!



Our standard of living and wages have gone DOWN> They had to. Globalization (leveling the playing field as doofus W. states) hurts everyone. ('cept the rich) When 3rd world countries get our jobs and manufacturing...thier standard of living RISES. Ours has nowhere to go but down. Companies are trying to worm out of thier pension (obligations) and healthcare programs at a staggering rate. THIS IS ALL BY DESIGN mind you...



If this continues we will be a country of 10 dollar an hour workers, with no healthcare or pensions. HMMMMM that sounds a little bit "Socialist". The very word the Neo Con, lying, spinning, scum bag republican administration (and the draft dodging pundits) pin on the Democrats.



Wake up, and dont believe everything you see on Fox, or read in the newspaper. This has been filtered, spun, and framed like you wouldnt believe. I weep for the folks that seem to think everything is fine. If things continue as they are...they too will be next. Because there can only be so many ultra-elite rich folks...the pretenders will get erased like all the other working folks who have been screwed in the last 8 years. Drastic changes must occur.



So go ahead you out of touch bunch. "Stay the course" and see where your job gets outsourced to if another cracker Republican gets in...

 

[Tom Schindler]

So go ahead you out of touch bunch. "Stay the course" and see where your job gets outsourced to if another cracker Republican gets in...

That comment reminds me of a cartoon I seen in the paper. it is so true, it isn't funny.



Here it is...



[Broken External Image]:



Lets forget the fact that the USA is a country of many colors and races. I am white myself. I am a short, fat red head. That is who I am. My neighbors are black, white, and Asian. The Republican party is made of white men. This far from the average slice of America.



The message I get from that is that the Republicans only feel that a white man is the only qualified individual to be president.



Is that really a slice of America?





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

The Republican party is made of white men.

It is? I didn't know that. White men you say?



Hhhm. Seems like someone is buying into the hype.



[warning: Non-PC Alert]

Why shouldn't the white man have a candidate they can call their own? The minorities have their flavors of choice; a black man or a white woman. Get this right, Geraldine Ferraro was correct. Barak Obama wouldn't get the notarity he does if he was white. Rush Limbaugh said the same thing a few years ago about Donovan McNabb. He was right too. Hillary Clinton wouldn't be a senator or a presidential candidate except for who she is, and what she doesn't have between her legs...where she is today has little to do with her capabilities. Put simply, the fact that Obama and Clinton are not "white men" makes their need for credentials moot for the most part. They are judged to a much lower standard.

[/warning]



But, I will agree that the "White Man" is on the verge of becoming the minority. When that happens, can we get protection? Can we get assured a certain number of jobs even though there are majority class workers that might be more qualified but aren't considered?



When does the "white man" become a protected class? I'm waiting for that day.



TJR

 

[Dingo]

I'm waiting for the white movie awards, white music awards, miss white america, the NAAWP, and WET.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I have pretty much given up on the democrats and the republicans. I am only looking at the candidate, and trying to ignore the BS spewing from the parties.



Eric and Travis-- I agree mostly with what you have said. I have taken some lumps too- made a career change due to plant closing to mexico ten years ago and took a new job with $18,000 pay cut. Despite promotions and raises, I still am not making what I made back in '94. However, I don't blame the democrats or the republicans. I just took the lumps and did the best I could and continued working hard and went back to school. Even making less money, my quality of life is higher than it was in '94, and I am doing OK.



I still don't understand all the generalities and rants that Frank has posted. Frank, I'm not picking on you, but you have not posted anything about how you personally have been hurt or how your standard of living is less due to the government. You are just regurgitating the rants of the media that says everything in the US is bad and gone to hell in a hand-basket. I don't see it-- everything looks pretty good to me. I don't see all these poor people that you and the media are talking about.



I have a good job. I have a good retirement planned. I have good healthcare. All of these are better than they were ten years ago.

 

[TomT]

I have pretty much given up on the democrats and the republicans.

Amen to that. Outsourcing is a problem but if the Democrats have their way (and unfortunately McCain) we won't need to outsource. The Mexicans will flood our job market and force wages so low we will be paying our workers about the same as those in China. .

 

[Tom Schindler]

Even making less money, my quality of life is higher than it was in '94, and I am doing OK.

Gavin, provided that you did not take that job loss, would you say you are doing OK or would you be doing MUCH BETTER?



That is Franks point. We all follow the ups and downs of the economy. We win some and we lose some. Does that mean we are as good off as we could have been?



If our rate of living standards slows down to 1% better every year, yet, in 3rd world countries if they are gaining at 20%, could that be looked at as our standard of living is really going down?



In a way, we are being lowered into the standard of living as those in 3rd world countries.



Follow what I am saying?



I am doing better now than I have ever been. That is no lie. If so much of my industry I work in would have stayed in the USA, I would be making much more than I am now. My 401(k) would have been over 4 times its current rate and my retirement would by more than double than what it is now.



Have I suffered? Yes and no. I could have been better than I am now, but right now I am not doing bad.



Gavin, you could have been living in a nicer home, making more money, driving a nicer car, eating better food. Yes, you are living better now than ever before but you are not living as good as you could have been living.



You are living lower standard that you should have. You are suffering...in some sort of way even if you do not realize it.





Tom

 

[Gavin Allan]

You are living lower standard that you should have. You are suffering...in some sort of way even if you do not realize it.

Thanks for exactly saying what is botheringg me.



Sure, things could always be better. We should always try to make things better.



I have a very good standard of living right now. I almost feel guilty as to how good I have it, but I also realize I have worked and studied very hard and behaved in a manner to get to where I am. Yes, I had some help, but I am doing very well with no complaints.



I guess my standard of living might be even better than it is now if I had made a different decision when I took my present job, but I am happy where I am and I don't have to work in China.



As far as me SUFFERING, no, that is far from the truth.



I look around and don't see anyone else suffering either. Poor people are very well-fed and very comfortable in our country.



I am better off than 99.9% of the people on this planet. How can I be SUFFERING?



The U.S. is strong, resilient, and the desired place to live by nearly every person on this planet. How can things be as bad as the media makes it out to be? How can you say we are SUFFERING?

 

[Les]

I disagree, we are not lowering our standard to living to those in 3rd world countries, their's is just getting better...

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

This is going to be a long one... atleast 2 posts...

Heres a little update for you that still are holding on hope that Bus h's approval ratings will rise above 17%.

Seventeen percent! That menas an OVERWHELMING majority of Americans say that ole W is doing a rotten job.

32.2% or there abouts from everything I can find.



21.7% or there abouts for Congress.

In the last week Bus h has made 2 speeches where he admits the economy is in the crapper.

Think about it: this is the same administration that is very secretive and never really wants to account for or admit ANY mistakes. This admission is striking in that regard because they are getting us ready for some tough times.

That's not what I heard out of them. Yes, he was "concerned", but he has not used the "R" word as far as I can tell because he does know the definition of the word and when we actually are in one.



At least he's not out there trying to get the definition of the word "is" or trying to say that oral sex is not actually cheating... right?

Let me quote what the President of the Bureau of Economics said this morningReuters) - The United States is in a recession that could be "substantially more severe" than recent ones, National Bureau of Economic Research President Martin Feldstein said on Friday.

"The situation is very bad, the situation is getting worse, and the risks are that it could get very bad," Feldstein said in a speech at the Futures Industry Association meeting in Boca Raton, Florida.

"There's no doubt that this year and next year are going to be very difficult years."

I'll sgree. It's the natual economic cycle that can be hurt or helped by the actions of Congress.

Can any of you with a straight face say that I am somehow wrong??

Well, yes actually. I can.

You ridiculous men better wake up and smell the coffee. This president is the worst public figure in history. There ARE TWO AMERICAS. Those who live in REALITY and the 17 percent who are out of touch with reality. I cannot fathom that there are people who are fully functional in life that think everything is fine with our country.

Appearantly John Edwards has logged in under your handle. Actually, the worst president in history is arguably Mr. Carter. He oversaw the inflation rate climb to double digits, interest rates also into double digits, the capture, murder and holding of US Citizens for more than a year with no real attempt to do anything about it. He was once of the biggest failures in US history.

NEXT?

I think 98% of people's problems can be traced back to their own poor judgment, but that doesn't mean some of them don't deserve a little empathy (and support) for their plight.

Absolutely. However, I don't want this to sound mean or uncaring as that is far from my standpoint, the empathy and support should come from everyday people, churches and community entities, not government handouts, bailouts and giveaways. Lower the taxes and cut "entitlements" and make people actually do something. Encourage communities and social organizations to help the needy, they do a MUCH better job for much lower costs. Why is the goberment responcible to give you 52 weeks of unemployment?

The outsourcing (lay offs) are a big problem. The establishment is in a hurry to globalize everything. This benefits no one but the corporate elite. Jobs disappear, profits move overseas, and OUR STANDARD OF LIVING GOES DOWN.

Jobs disappear for one because taxes are too damn high. It's cheaper for capitalist companies to move elsewhere to avoid burdensome taxation. It's one reason why a lot of companies have left places like Michigan and California. The taxes are too high and the restrictions are too great. They c

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Our standard of living and wages have gone DOWN> They had to. Globalization (leveling the playing field as doofus W. states) hurts everyone. ('cept the rich) When 3rd world countries get our jobs and manufacturing...thier standard of living RISES. Ours has nowhere to go but down. Companies are trying to worm out of thier pension (obligations) and healthcare programs at a staggering rate. THIS IS ALL BY DESIGN mind you...

Wages has stagnated, I havn't seen where they have gone down. I havn't had a raise in two years. There is a reason that 3rd world countries are getting our jobs. Taxes, wages and restrictions. Taxes are too high. Wages are cheaper in other countries (I don't belive most wages are too high here, however the entitlement mentality is too high here). Restrictions are way to high comparatively speaking.



I do agree that companies need to accept responcibility for the promises they made in their pension plans. Howeverm 401(k) and medical benefits are just that, benefits. They are not a requirement for the companies to offer. If a company can't afford to offer them, they do not have to. They probably won't get many takers for the job, but they can do as they wish with benefits.



Name calling again. Agree with him or not, Mr. Bush is every US citizen's president. I would prefer that everyone would at least respect the office. I don't go around calling Mr. Clinton "liar" (even though, legally he call be called that), "philanderer" (again, legally, he can be), or even "the great impeached one" (again, he can be). I give him the respect of office due to him. His wife, I do call Hitlery regularly. IF (and GOD forbid) she gets to the People's House, I will refer to her as Mrs. President or Mrs. Clinton or Ms. Rodham, what ever name she prefers. That is the way I was raised. Even if you don't like the person, they deserve the respect of office and the dignity of the title.

If this continues we will be a country of 10 dollar an hour workers, with no healthcare or pensions. HMMMMM that sounds a little bit "Socialist". The very word the Neo Con, lying, spinning, scum bag republican administration (and the draft dodging pundits) pin on the Democrats.

Dude, you have ZERO CLASS. You throw around words with no thought to meaning, connotation or consideration. I am waiting for you to proove that Limbaugh and Hannity have lied. I will again challenge you one the administraion being liars (remember the definition of a lie). Conservatives want government out of our lives whereever possible. Let the marketplace set wages. If everyone gets paid $10/hour, but it is set by the marketplace, that is not socialism, that is capitalism. If the marketplace determines that comapnies don't have to supply healthcare benefits, that is capitalism. The companies that innovate, differentiate and make profits are the ones that can survive in porr economic times. Capitalist markets can determine what level of pay and benefits the people want. If a company pays $5/hour and can't get quality workers, they will keep raising the pay scale until they can fill the position with people they need. It's really quite simple.

Wake up, and dont believe everything you see on Fox, or read in the newspaper. This has been filtered, spun, and framed like you wouldnt believe. I weep for the folks that seem to think everything is fine. If things continue as they are...they too will be next. Because there can only be so many ultra-elite rich folks...the pretenders will get erased like all the other working folks who have been screwed in the last 8 years. Drastic changes must occur.

Actually, no. The number of ultra-elite rich folkes is unlimited. I thinks it's a God Blessed idea that everyone be wealthy beyond your very dreams. I applaud people like Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, even people like Michael Moore. Not for what they do, but they fact that ALL OF<

 

[Tom Schindler]

At least he's not out there trying to get the definition of the word "is" or trying to say that oral sex is not actually cheating... right?

I completely forgot that getting a BJ in the oval office was responsible for thousands of deaths and the downfall of the economy.



Just a little info for you, most people could give a crap less about Clinton and his BJ.



This lie is more important.



"Sadaam HAS weapons of mass destruction".





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

Wages has stagnated, I havn't seen where they have gone down.

Stangated wages when the cost of goods go up=lower wage.





Tom

 

[Gavin Allan]

Interest rates are very low.

Unemployment rates are very low.

Inflation rates are very low.



Poor people have plenty of food and all the luxuries.

 

[Frank screwyourednecks]

Hey Shrek,



Get out your Doublespeak dictionary and edit this one.

Mr. Bush said he was optimistic because the economy’s “foundation is solid” as measured by employment, wages, productivity, exports and the federal deficit. He was wrong on every count. On some, he has been wrong for quite a while.



Mr. Bush boasted about 52 consecutive months of job growth during his presidency. What matters is the magnitude of growth, not ticks on a calendar. The economic expansion under Mr. Bush — which it is safe to assume is now over — produced job growth of 4.2 percent. That is the worst performance over a business cycle since the government started keeping track in 1945.



This is the legacy of President Bush. This is the legacy of the enabling and entirely complicit Republican-controlled Congress. This is the legacy John McCain is promising to continue.



Hmm. Better get out the shredder on this one!

HA

 

[Dingo]

Frank. Fix it. Vote for someone non-republican.



We can all make 200 post threads, but nothing we do here is changing the world. If you hate how it is, change it.