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Caymen,



Maybe to help you wade through all the options, suggestions and opinions you should list the top 5 desires you have for a gun, in descending priority.



You know, reasons/desires like:



1. Low cost

2. Easy to carry, conceal

3. Ease of use, maintain

4. Stopping power

5. ...



I find when I am faced with making a tough decision that has me weight several options and opinions that listing MY NEEDS and MY DESIRES and then matching the choices against them pares down the choices rather quickly.



Good luck.



I apologize if you already started doing this, or you feel I am coming off as Commander Obvious.



TJR

 
KelTec 380 works fine for me... Remember too... when you load the gun it's gonna be heavier ... so when looking for a gun, be sure to find one that can hold a good amount, but not something that's going to hold so many that you could battle all of iraq with... maybe like 6+1 or something ... my keltec holds up to 7... so it is not too heavy once loaded...



Also, shoot the gun to see how YOU can handle it... see how well you can recover from your last shot... that's important too...



 
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TJR,



I know where you are coming from. I am not afraid to spend money on something. At the same time, like many people, why should I spend a grand on something when a $500 unit will do the same thing. Why should I spend $500 on something if $300 will do the same thing.



There are guns that are tiny. They could also fit in my wallet. At the same time, they would be useless, if needed.



Brands. I do not know what brands to even consider. Sure they might look good, but what are known as being a good gun and what brands aren't.



There is more to it than price, ease to carry, ease to maintain, stopping power, etc.



The last person I trust is the salesman. He has a vested intrest in my buying something. How do I really know he is selling me best bang for the buck vs. best profit margin for him?



As I always tell people. Got to a Chevy dealer and ask them who makes the best truck. Do the same at a Dodge, Ford, Nissan, or Toyota dealer. They will all say their brand makes the best. Even if they do not make the best truck, they will still say the brand they sell is the best.



I tell people to ask around. Talk to people about what they own. That will give myself a better inderstanding of what is good and why.





Tom
 
Glock, Sig sauer, Smith & Wesson, KelTec, Colt are some that are good names that back their products... Glock and Sig are good pistols... colts are nice, but heavy... S&W make a good product, KelTec design small guns with the inexpensive appeal (they dont look fancy)...
 
Mud,



I heard the opposite about a KelTec. Many people have told me they are cheap and work like crap. I don't know. Taurus had been reccomended by a few people as a affordable gun that is well made.







Tom
 
I've been planning on purchasing a gun for sometime as well. Just haven't got around to going to the local gun range and test firing several of them to see which is best for me.



Tom - is there a gun range shop that allows you to test fire them?
 
When I was looking to purchase mine, the range that I went to had rentals. My wife and I both held a number of the pistols and the one that was most comfortable to both of us we rented. Unfortunatly they have a limited number of rentals so with some of them it wouldn't have been an option. We ended up buy the same model as we rented. Most ranges won't allow you to fire any rounds through their guns unless they are a rental specific one because then they can't sell it as new anymore.



So I fired an XD9 at the range which had lots of rounds but through it and had no issues with it. I then purchased a brand new never fired XD9 because we were both comfortable firing it and holding it.



If I remember correctly someone else on this forum had voiced an opinion also that XD was a good company. I didn't find it too pricey, but wasn't cheap. I paid approx $500 for mine.
 
JD, the XD is is imported from Eastern Europe by Springfield Armory. Very good reputation for reliability. Glock, as the early innovator, got most of the police market with their "this semi-auto works similar to a revolver" (no external safeties). They are ubiquitous now. But at this point, Glock vs. XD vs. S&W vs. Taurus, etc., is kind of like Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge vs. Toyota. Any of the models that sell reasonable well and last more than a few years on the market are likely to be reliable enough for self defense use.
 
JD, the XD is is imported from Eastern Europe by Springfield Armory.



Sorry in my last post I said XD was the brand that was just a brainfart. Springfield Armory is the company that makes the XD.



However my XD has stamped on the side that it was made in IL, so was the original just imported and now they make them here? Or is that false?
 
Does it actually say "made in IL"? It may be the importer's home city/state. All modern, imported guns have such a stamp. They usually have another stamp showing where they are made.



I know the XD's were originally produced in Croatia. I don't think that's changed, but I could be wrong.

 
Tom:



Not sure who told you KelTec was crap, but I think they are great and reliable from what I've shot and have owned...I think since they're not as pretty as the other manufacturers and do not cost as much, people assume they are crap.. in fact, A LOT of cops use my 380 as a backup.. so if law enforcement uses them that says a lot.
 
For CCW, you want to carry with one bullet in the chamber, ready to fire. You don't want to have to rack a semi-auto to chamber a bullet, therefore, if you're looking at a semi-auto, look at double actions (I think Rich posted this, he knows what he's talking about in my opinion). Double action allows you to pull the trigger and fire without the added step of cocking a hammer.



Same goes for a revolver, you should be ready to fire, all cylinders loaded, therefore, a double action is necessary.



Stay away from single action pistols, whether semi-auto or revolver. Single action you have to first cock the hammer, then pull the trigger.



Also, a laser, such as a Crimson Trace, is worth the money. Think about the crook you finally have to pull a gun on. When he sees a red laser, it has a devastating effect on the guy that really isn't a hardened criminal, he may back down. The hardened criminal will just keep coming, and under diress, most of us aren't rock solid, so a red laser dot on the subject will help point of aim. Crimson Trace makes lasers for many handguns, they replace the stock Hand Grips and cost about $300. There are others out there. Well worth the money. Those that have them, speak up for Tom. I was shooting a 45 ACP from the hip today at 25 & 50 yards, with a laser, hitting 50 to 70% of my shots on a 10" steel plate.



Get a Stainless Steel or Scandium gun. CCW means you're gonna give the finish a beating, and stainless holds up very well (no rust, no constant oil rag wiping, nor holster wearing the finish off).



.22 caliber too small.



As others have said, .32/.380 about minimum, but easy to conceal. Real nice backup or pocket gun.



Ruger makes a great Double Action Revolver, model SP101 in .357 magnum. Affordable. Can be upfitted with a laser. 357 is a handful in a 2" barrel revolver, but here's the good news, practice with .38 Specials. The gun shoots both, and 38's cost less and more forgiving on your recoil. You probably can buy reloaded 38's from your local gun shop (cops use them). Gun is about $350, I think. Add $300 for a laser. As I recall, you're not a small guy, so CCW with a beefy gun like this should not be a problem. It's offered in a hammerless (concealed inside the gun frame), so the hammer won't get stuck on clothing during a draw, which is important. Plus, you can beat a Ruger to death, hot loads and all, and they just keep working. It's one that I use. Made in America.



9mm, too small in my opinion.



45 ACP - absolutely great if you can conceal it. I'm a traditional M1911 type guy, and the old Colts are pretty thin and I can carry pretty decent. Kimber makes wonderful 45 ACP pistols, but they're not cheap. Made in New York.



You mentioned Tarus, I have a few. They basically make/have made copies of the Smith & Wesson frame guns (long story, if you're interested it's on the web). Tarus recently came out with a 1911 45 ACP. Looks good, affordable, made in Brazil. You get what you pay for here.



Smith & Wesson has made some "Air Lite" or so revolvers. Made from titanium/scandium type alloys. Be careful, shoot them first before you buy. The lighter the frame, the more punishing the recoil. You have to shoot to be comfortable and make your ccw second nature. If recoil is too much, you flinch and may not practice as much as you should.



Anything larger than 45 ACP, is just too big and difficult to conceal.



I've stayed away from composite guns, like the Glock. I just don't like them. I don't think you can beat good old metal in a gun fight and day to day. Just my opinion.



I've read all your posts/responses. I hope this helps you in what you're looking for.
 
Well, we pretty much made up our mind on this one. Hammerless revolver. Simple, compact, light, well built, <Font size=+2>AMERICAN MADE</font>, nice feel, etc.



Smith & Wesson 642





Tom
 
Nice piece, only a pound, DA, recoil on +P's should be reasonable.



You might want to look into a laser, like Crimson Trace

http://www.crimsontrace.com/default.asp?id=743



Often you can buy as a combo deal, and save a few $. Try Davidson's to see, here's a link:

http://www.galleryofguns.com/gunlocator/gunsearch/Product.asp?Manuf=&item_num=163811&index=1&max=20&start=20&instock=None&manufact_combo=Smith+%26+Wesson&mod_ser_combo=642&category_combo=1&model=None&g_type=Revolver&act_type=None&finish_type=None&calib_combo=38SP&sight_class_combo=None&price_range=None&qPromoID=&EZ=&left_handed=&youth=&item_only=0&oldsql=WHERE+%28unk2+like+%27%251%27+or+unk2+like+%27%252%27%29++AND+Inventory%2EUnk2+like+%27%251%27+AND++manuf+like+%27%25Smith+%26+Wesson%25%27++AND++%28Inventory%2Emodel%5Fseries+%3D+%27642%27+OR+Inventory%2Emodel%5Fseries+like+%27642%7C%25%27+OR+Inventory%2Emodel%5Fseries+like+%27%25%7C642%27%29+AND++Inventory%2Egun%5Ftype+like+%27%25Revolver%25%27+AND++%28Caliber+like+%2738SP%7C%25%27+or+Caliber+like+%27%25%7C38SP%27+or+Caliber+%3D+%2738SP%27%29+ORDER+BY+manuf%2C+unk2%2C+unk3



Hope it works out for you
 
Ken,



I spoke to the salesman about it. He did say that if I wanted a laser sight, I should get it when I buy it, though he does not reccomend it.



The reasons?



He said too many people depend only on the laser sight and if it fails to work...well, you are screwed.



I am leaning towards it anyways. It is cheaper to buy it with the gun originally then to buy it aftermarket...almost $75.00 cheaper.



We went to 4 gun shops today. One is a locally owned shop run by family. Unfortunatly, they have a bunch of "locals" talking about someone trying to car jack them, but pulling a gun and the car jacker running away. :wacko:



I have lived in the ghetto for 33 years and was driving 16 of those years and have never been attempted to be carjacked. that shop was more of a hang out than a place to get info. He showed us one gun than said "you could carry what I carry" and pulls out a S&W .50 caliper pistol.



Went to a store called "The gun store". It was nothing more than a local hangout where the guys talked about whatever. Looked a guns for about 10 minutes and nobody came by to offer any assistance.



We went to Gander Mountain to see what they had. Not a good selection. Overpriced too.



Last place we went is a place called Kame's Sporting goods. We started talking to a lady. We started out saying we wanted to get a CCW permit and what did she reccomend. She pointed to the S&W 642. She explained her reasons of that gun vs. one with a hammer. She also said why she reccomends a revolver over an auto...simplicity, ease of use, etc. He husband came to help us too. He gave us some extra info. Really helpful. Explained everything to us so we could understand. Showed us the quality differences between the S&W vs. Taurus. Even the feel of S&W was so much better than the Taurus. Prices were the lowest so far. $399.00 for the S&W without the laser is about what I want to pay. Add about $200.00 for the laser. That couple spent a good 30 minutes with us.



Unless we find a cheaper price, they will be getting the sale.



Hopefully tomorrow we will find another shop open to compare prices and ask questions.



Next step will be to rent one to see how we like the gun.





Tom
 
Tom, that's an excellent concealed carry piece. And the price is reasonable. The least you'll find that gun online is $359. After shipping and transfer fees, it would cost more than the $399 quoted at the store. The advice about buying the laser is right on: It's cheaper when bought as a S&W accessory with the gun; as bonus, the grips have the S&W logo instead of the Crimson Trace logo.



The experience you had at the various gun stores is typical. When the guy shows you a S&W .50 as a carry gun, he obviously is not interested in what your needs are. He's more interested in showing off than giving good advice and making a sale. Lots of guys who go to work at a gun store do it because they like guns, not because they have good sales or service skills.



Gun stores are often hang outs for local gun enthusiasts. That can be good or bad. A lot of times, it's a distraction for the store staff. But it can also help in some cases when someone hanging out in the store is helpful. One evening, I was just finishing up on the range at our local store, and a woman was looking at a Bersa 380 for personal protection. But she was nervous about buying it without shooting it, and the store didn't have one as a rental gun. I had one in my bag. The clerk gave me a box of ammo, I took her down to the range, explained the gun to her. She shot it, and then went back upstairs and bought one. Sometimes, having extra folks with specific knowledge in the store can be helpful.



It sounds like the people who treated you right earned your business. If you buy the gun from a mom and pop establishment like that, they'll remember you and you'll be treated well each time you come in.



Don't forget to budget for accessories. You'll need a cleaning kit. You'll need a holster. For that gun, carried in a purse, pants pocket, or fanny pack, I like the Desantis Nemsis pocket holster.



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to stay on topic...



i would go with the glock 19. its very compact, light weight, easy to maintain, easy to load, 9mm, and very dependable. they also carry another kind of glock 19, which is the glock 19c, which would be perfect for your wife. its built a little bit different to reduce recoil. if your more worried about size, you could also go with the glock 26. they dont offer it in the c series but it is considerably smaller then the 19. hope this helps
 

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