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Okay, Tom, I get it now...it will get better, bit by bit, slowly.



My parting comment (should you want to listen to it or not, should it be welcome or not) is that if you see impatient people with the mobility to do so leaving and not being able to wait for the turn-around you probably shouldn't think any less of them for it. They too are doing what they feel is best.



As I said several times, "good luck." Time will tell if things get better. It may take some time.



TJR
 
My parting comment (should you want to listen to it or not, should it be welcome or not) is that if you see impatient people with the mobility to do so leaving and not being able to wait for the turn-around you probably shouldn't think any less of them for it. They too are doing what they feel is best.
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You are missing the overall point. I will try to make it simple.



My Dad purchased a house in a nice neighborhood many years ago. The neighborhood went to crap over the years. He is now almost 75 years old and too old to really move. Before you retort back that he can, take it for what it is worth. He is too old to move.



Because of that, I am REQUIRED to travel to that area. I live in a safer neighborhood, BUT I place myself into a bad neighborhood because I MUST visit my father.



I do plan on moving out of the city in a year or two. Not because I wan't to seperate myself from a bad place, but because I would like to live on an acre of property in a country setting. It has nothing to do with safety because the neighborhood I live in is relativly safe.



Living in a rural community does not provide you with the assorted shopping one might want to do. So, we must drive to a city or community to do shopping. In those area's, crooks know people are shopping and have money. That makes the area a prime location to prowl.



That is why a gun can be needed in situations like that.



Note, I never asked about a gun for my property. I asked about a handgun. In a home, the best weapon to use would be a shotgun. I was talking about a small handgun to carry "just in case".



Does that make sense to you are is the right answer still "move away"?





Tom
 
Caymen, for a guy that doesn't want to talk about moving you sure do ask a lot of questions. ;)



Yes it all makes perfect sense.



I'll take your word for it that your dad won't/can't move. However, I do know several people that have bought Mother/Daugter type homes (those with small, secondary living spaces) just so an elderly parent or two can live with them. Consider what that might be able to do for your whole family. Sometime in the near future such an option might be beneficial.



I guess I am blessed. I live in a neighborhood that is close to shopping, big box stores, and thriving suburbs with good jobs.



You mentioned 6 guys raping a girl in a shopping mall parking lot. To contrast things a little for you, the local mall near us is very safe. I am quite sure that if a car filled with minorities circled our mall more than once, or a group of more than 3 or 4 minority pedestrians loitered, then they would be followed by mall security post-haste. Call that racist if you want, but that is the way it is.



I've heard of one carjacking and one mugging in our community (20 mile radius) in the last 10 years that I have lived here. Both of which, as you would assume were commited by transients (those passing through); the carjacking a couple of illegals that robbed a Gamestop store in a local strip mall then carjacked and kidnapped someone at a local home; the 2nd incident a black man that struck someone from behind and grabbed their wallet as they left a convenient store at 2am. It happens, I know. Sure, there are probably other incidents I never heard about, but I do read the local papers and these types of things are quite sensational when they happen.



I moved from an area where such incidents were commonplace, everyday, right around the block, so I can appreciate the anxiety that can bring about.



TJR
 
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I'll take your word for it that your dad won't/can't move. However, I do know several people that have bought Mother/Daugter type homes (those with small, secondary living spaces) just so an elderly parent or two can live with them. Consider what that might be able to do for your whole family. Sometime in the near future such an option might be beneficial.
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Yes Dad. Already thought of it. I am not as dumb as you think I am.



You mentioned 6 guys raping a girl in a shopping mall parking lot. To contrast things a little for you, the local mall near us is very safe. I am quite sure that if a car filled with minorities circled our mall more than once, or a group of more than 3 or 4 minority pedestrians loitered, then they would be followed by mall security post-haste. Call that racist if you want, but that is the way it is.
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Yea, you live in a "whitey" neighborhood. This happened at a safe mall too. Give it time. Crooks know where the money is. They will find your mall.



I've heard of one carjacking and one mugging in our community (20 mile radius) in the last 10 years that I have lived here.
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Give it time. Things will change. Dad lived in a good neighborhood for many years. That neighborhood went downhill fast. Yours can too.





Tom
 
Caymen, I didn't say nor implied you are dumb.



You say your old neighborhood went down fast, and mine could too. Yeah, it could. If it does though, I will see it coming, and either get a(nother) gun or move. ;) In the last 10 years, however, crime, for the most part, has stayed the same.



There is only one neighborhood of low income housing in my area. It's been around since the 70s. It is govt subsidized. 80% of the police calls are to that area. A majority of the "problem kids" in the schools are from that area. An overwhelming number of minorities live there.



It was a "grand experiment" that ultimately failed. The intent was that the area would be a "stepping stone." People from outside the area could move in, live cheaply get established in jobs, better themselves, then move up and out.



Instead, what happened was the BOF (birds of a feather) factor. The things that were "keeping people down" that moved in, moved in with them (no work ethic, poor education, poor family values, drugs, teen pregnancy, etc). When put together, with others having the same issues and baggage, the problems became chronic, epidemic, and long lasting.



That one area, and the 200 or 300 "families" (is a mom and 6 kids a family; is a 40 year old mom with 24 year old baby-daddy a family) hasn't changed; isn't changing. It's gotten a little worse, but it hasn't really spilled over into the rest of the community to any great degree...yet, I suppose.



My fear is that there are entire cities now like this. That simply cannot help themselves come back.



TJR
 
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Is it really worth spending $900.00 for a Glock or will spending less than $400.00 on a KelTech do the same thing.
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Tom, IMHO, i would buy the best quality weapon, no matter what the brand. When you pull that gun, you can't afford a malfunction. However, be aware you can't out-gun the criminals. Even professional police forces are often out-gunned, since many gangs steal automatic weapons or finance them with drug money. Police Forces are limited by tax dollars available.



Also, I can't help notice that many of the posts in this thread have negative racial comments towards blacks. I am not black, but if any read them, they could be quite offended to see that you portray black neighborhoods as dangerous and poor, and white neighborhoods as somehow safer. This implies that black people are the problem and they are therefore the reason you are buying a gun to protect yourself from black people. Not a nice thing to state in any forum.
 
Nelson,



I am probably MORE guilty than Tom at insinuating that the crime and violence in question is due to minorities (black, hispanic, otherwise). That's not to say that there aren't law-abiding and upstanding minority citizens in Tom's community, or the community that I lived within in Westchester County, NY. However, my observations were that the violent crimes there (in NY) and in the Philadelphia city areas that I commented about earlier are, by and large, committed by minorities.



Pointing that out isn't racist. Using racial slurs is.



Calling someone who commits a violent crime an "animal" is not racist. Recognizing that most of the violent crimes are attributed to blacks (for example) again, is not, racist. Putting those two points together does not make one racist through the transitive property. Meaning, that those that commit such crimes are animals does NOT imply that all blacks are animals.



Bill Cosby said it best himself when talking about is famous speech (I paraphrase):



"If you are black and you were NOT offended by what I said than it is because you know that I wasn't talking about YOU!"



TJR
 
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TJR said:
I agree with much of what you said, but I also have to say that it is further evidence of the dysfunctional society we live in when we cannot, or should I say, we are unwilling to talk about what it really takes to clean up a community; or to talk about if one additional gun can really make a difference in overall QOL (quality of life) when living in a bad neighborhood.
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That tired conversation happens all day, every day, in the halls of state houses, in Congress, in mayor offices, and community action centers. Usually, the conversation is dominated by ideas that remove power from individuals, and give power to government.



Works really well, doesn't it?



Some of the neighborhoods we are talking about simply have people, for the most part, don't trust the police and won't work with them to clean up their streets. I see that in spades in Philadelphia. Furthermore, the police, the chief and the mayor aren't totally blameless. As long as the minorities are killing each other there isn't really a big problem; but when they kill a cop, or when they start to go out to the 'burbs, then there is a crackdown. By our actions; the actions of our citizenry and our leaders, we have shown that we have given up on several of these cities and communities decades ago. Many have literally become warzones.
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And they will remain so until the people living there stand up for their rights. There is no other way for it to change.



It doesn't make one a coward or a sissy to recognize that. If living in that type of environment one man, taking a stand with yet another gun won't solve anything. Yes, you can take comfort in saying that "I took my stand", but for what purpose?
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Personal protection, for one thing. The best studies suggest that guns are used to prevent crimes somewhere between one and two million times a year. I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it. Crimes happen one act at a time. Preventing crime, even if it means meeting it with deadly force, has to happen one act at a time.



Frankly, I am a realist. I don't think that there are enough good people left in many of these communities to make a stand (armed or not) to turn them around.
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That's not a realist's point of view. That's a cynacist's point of view. I think there are plenty of good folks in those communities. They are brainwashed into believing it's not their role in society to ensure their own well being.



Go ahead folks...call me names.
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Haven't and won't.
 
they could be quite offended to see that you portray black neighborhoods as dangerous and poor, and white neighborhoods as somehow safer. This implies that black people are the problem and they are therefore the reason you are buying a gun to protect yourself from black people.
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You've never been to the big city have you Nelson? It's not racist when you have statistics showing areas of most crime are usually predominately black. And it's not white people coming into black neighborhoods committing the crimes. May not be politically correct to say that but I hate PC people with a passion.

 
You've never been to the big city have you Nelson?
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Nope. I have never been outside of my hometown. We have 500 families, but one of them is black. I never knew they could cause trouble. They seemed so nice to me. I guess I better buy a gun. :lol:



edit:



I also never walked into a bank while it was being robbed on Dec 24, 1986, and looked down the barrel of a gun held six inches from my face by one of three desperate bank robbers. I also never ducked into a store front to avoid being shot by automatic gunfire in Istanbul, Turkey in 1997. I also never lived in a combat zone for 27 months. I've never been anywhere dangerous, so I know nothing about life. I only read about things in books and watch it on TV. ;)
 
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So in the end, what handgun did you decide on getting? Or is this question too off topic for this thread?
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Havent purchased one yet. Still doing research. This is a major decision that I am not jumping into. I am talking to everyone I know about what guns they reccomend. Some guys like the big 44 mag, while others say a .38 or .380 is fine. Others say stay away from 9mm.



It is confusing.



One fried said I should look into a Taurus hand gun. Very nice gun at an affordable price. Still havent decided. Before I can apply for a permit, I must go through formal training and get finger printed.



It is going to be a while. No hurry though. I would rather take my time and get something good that buy something and regret it.





Tom
 
:lol: << that was for this entire thread with a no comment :)





Caymen, I can understand why you want to make a sound choice! Good luck in your hand gun search. ;)
 
Price does not necessarily equal more or better. Any gun will function fine if it is maintained properly, broken in and using ammo that agrees with the firearm. I have used a handgun that dispises Winchester but loves Wolf and Silver Bear.



Whatever firearm you purchase, pickup 50 rounds or so of several different brands of ammo (include steel cased, brass cased and aluminum cased rounds as well). Try them all. See which you and your firearm are most ameniable to. If it's the cheapest, nastiest stuff, great. Be sure to clean well. If it's the $1/round stuff, awesome. It'll just cost you a bit more to practice.



 
Caymen...



Once you decide on a gun and purchase it, be sure to shoot about 200 rounds of any kind of round ball or cheeper target ammo through it... to break it in... make sure it works... THEN purchase some nice hollow-points and shoot about a magazine or two of those... then your gun will be ready.. and predictable... DON'T buy a gun and think you can just start carrying it.. It needs to be broken in...



9mm is fine.



380 is fine...



.45, in my opinion, is perfect.



I carry a 380 because it is small, lite and easily concealed (AND DOUBLE ACTION).



Double action, IMO, is safer than single action on the sem iautos... it allows you to put a bullet in the chamber and not have to worry about having a hairy trigger.



I keep my .45 in the house or in the glovebox on road trips... no need to carry that big sucker around..



TIP: Weight is more important than size, IMO... Make sure it can fit in your pocket and not feel like you're carrying a brick ... you gotta feel comfortable carrying it because you'll end up just leaving it at home (thats if you want to carry it, because you dont need a CCW permit to have one in your home, so I assume you want to carry it)...



Finally, find out what other people are carrying (not just here on mydebate.com, but go to gun ranges, gun shops... they'll love to help you)....



Also.... I don't blame you for wanting one.



Good luck.

 
Mud,



Thanks a bunch. I am looking for lightweight. Like you said, I do not want to walk around with a brick in my pocket.



I also can not justify spending $900.00 for a gun.



As I said, I have talked to many gun owners, and a few gun freaks, about this topic.



As usual, you get the guy that walks around with 4 guns anytime he is not at work. We are not allowed to carry a gun at work. Other guys are like myself. Some others think the only gun to buy costs thousands of dollars.



You hear so many conflicting theories and reasons why I should get one over another.





Tom
 

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