Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot............................

[Greg A]

Tom t



That is the stupidest statement I have ever heard, if you know anything about

world war 2 Canada played a very important role. Exactly when have we come

to the americans for help???? Please name one time...



What coutry helped when your iranian embasy was attached in the 70`s or 80`s.

What coutry allowed all your planes to land during 9/11.

 

[Bill V]

Rich--



I fully agree with the stance of your earlier statement--but I need to shoot holes in an argument that weak when I see it...



You put together a list of people/regimes with negative images who supported disarming the public, to say that this is a reason not to do it.



However, most (and likely all) of the people on your list were also supporters of public education. (I found records saying the middle four people on your list were strong supporters of it, indications that George III may have supported it--I'm not sure, and I really don't know much about recent Canadian governments.) Since these evil-doers had such a stance, does this mean that public education is inherently wrong, too? Obviously not.



By all means, fight the good fight on this--it's worth doing. But you need arguments stronger than that one...

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill V said:

This behavior is absolutely disgusting, completely anti-American, extremely hypocritical, and seeming to become far more common among more and more Republicans these days...



And for the record, I find the suggestion of either act of violence absolutely deplorable.

Though I agree with much of what you said in your post, Bill V, as Republican myself who tries not to be hypocritical, I take some offense to your comment.



Too many people these days throw labels around, and that isn't helping anything. So, please, if you see "many" Republicans behaving badly don't assume all or even most do.



I am seeing some REALLY bad behavior on both sides of the aisle especially on this "non-issue!".



TJR

 

[Greg A]

Bill



It costs $2000 a year to go to university in Quebec, and about 5k a year in the rest of

the country.. Government pays alot

 

[Rich Stern]

There is more chance of the US invading us, which IMHO will happen (not anytime soon). If it is not for oil it will be for water....

All the more reason to be armed. If it ever comes to that, I hope you and your countrymen, if fighting for a just cause, kill a lot of Americans in such a scenario. We would deserve it.

A question how would a militia made up of americans (average citzens) ever be able to take on who ever controls the military with its technology. If something were to happen as

you suggest...

Some examples:



American colonials took on the greatest military power in the world...and won.



Afghan tribesman took on a super power...and won.



Half of the Vietnamese people, poor, agrarian, took on the French...and won. Despite the cost of that effort, less than 10 years later they took on a super power...and won.



Right now, insurgents with rifles, RPGs and crude bombs are tying up 130,000 members of the most expensively equipped and trained fighting force in the world. That includes nuclear carrier task groups, fighter and bomber wings, tanks, mechanized infantry, attack and transport helicopters, etc.



So, do you think motivated people with small arms can't win major conflicts?

 

[Rich Stern]

Bill, consider the difference between public education and private ownership of firearms in the context of committing forceful acts:



Has public education ever been a deciding factor in a military conflict? Not to my knowledge.



Has private ownership of firearms ever been a deciding factor in a military conflict? Yes.



Has public education been used as a mechinism to exert murderous control over a populace? Not to my knowledge.



Has denial of private ownership of firearms ever been used to exert murderous control over a populace? Repeatedly so.



I'm sure we could find dozens of policy issues that the evil folks on my list agree upon. That doesn't mean those issues are essential to perpetrating tyranny.

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

Bill V, they may have supported public education, but the curriculum was set by them. Propaganda was an important issue. You don't really believe that Hitler, Mussolini or Castro were going to show history or public affairs without a tremendous spin. Control their minds and you control them. The Australian citizens were recently was disarmed by the government. Violent crime has INCREASED not DECRESED since then. The most PRO-gun cities in the .S. have the lowest violent crime rate. Why?

 

[Bob McDonald]

This is giving me a headache. Please make it stop. :wacko:

 

[Bill V]

TJR--



I agree that both sides have had a tendancy to go over-the-top on various issues--but I still stand by my statement that I've seen more conservatives/Republicans (or at least self-proclaimed Republicans) willing to either become violent or at least condone violence on behalf of their political beliefs. It wasn't meant as a label of "all Republicans"--it's just a statement that the percentage of them espousing such violent tendancies has appeared to be on the rise.



--Bill

 

[Rich Stern]

but I still stand by my statement that I've seen more conservatives/Republicans (or at least self-proclaimed Republicans) willing to either become violent or at least condone violence on behalf of their political beliefs.

Bill, I don't disagree with that.



Yesterday I was pondering a similar stereotype of liberal leaders, relative to infidelity. Here in Georgia, we are watching former Atlanta mayor Bill Campbell's corruption trial play out. The witnesses so far have included one of his former lovers, with more scheduled to appear. The prosecution isn't really dishing out dirt on the extra-marital affairs. They want these women on the stand to describe the ridiculous amounts of cash Campbell carried around and used to pay for everything. As this unfolds, I can't help but be reminded of Bill Clinton. And John Kennedy. And Lyndon Johnson. And Jesse Jackson. And Robert Kennedy. And Martin Luther King. And James McGreevey. Powerful men with lofty ideas about how society should work in a kinder, gentler fashion. Yet they share a common trait: They didn't have the self-control to keep their vows sacred and their flys zipped while telling the world their vision for a better tomorrow.



Now, I won't suggest that Democrats have cornered the market on illicit affairs. But it's easy to view the aggregate and make a sweeping judgement. Fair or unfair.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

First off, it was a hunting accident. Hunting accidents occur almost evryday. Is there a press report about each and every one? Nope. Who the hell cares? The reporters are a bunch of goons insinuating that Cheney should resign. The reporters are goons for demanding to know why they were not the ones to break the story (gee, you spend 6 years defaming and ragging on the White House and demand to have every breaking story? Yeah.... right.).



Now the fun begins:



gwac said:

Jenn you needs guns to protect yourself from others with gun, that make sense

It's not about protecting from others with guns, it's about protecting my wife and daughter for ANYONE armed with ANYTHING. If a burgler enters my house, he/she/it will have one change to leave. Then, what they decide to do is up to them. My house is my house. They were not invited in and for all I know they are intending to do harm to my loved ones. Biblically speaking, I am to lay down my life as a husband and father for my family. I will take any advantage to do so.

Please tell me why that statement is ignorant, from what are you protecting yourself

that you need a gun in your house...

See my above statement. You enter my house, you may not leave. That will be up to you. For your sake and mine, you'd better choose wisely.

I do no believe you need to own a gun and I do no believe in killing animals except

for humane reasons.

That is your opinion. Jenn D and others like me have opinions that differ from yours. Let's pretend that society breaks down, much as what was seen in Los Angeles or New Orleans. The businesses and homes that were not ransacked were the ones that that had the owner pearched on the roof with a rifle warning anyone whe gets close. That is my right. The NRA, GOA and the Supreme Court have all sided with me.

Oh another great topic GOD. Sorry I stop believing in imaginary friends long ago.

That's fine with me. When it's time for both of us to rest in eternity, if I am wrong, what have I lost? But if you are wrong, then you have lost everything.

I know after we are done with God and Gay marraige we can go to abortion.

Honestly, 1) was this necessary, and 2) do you REALLY want to go to that after having your other entire arguement shot full of holes?



Let's look at two of your average nut-job "ban all the guns" countries, England and Australia (oddly, when you add Canada, you have a large protion of the once mighty British Empire, defeated by US Militia armed with privately owned firearms). Both England and Austrailia banned private firearm ownership without a proper license (often difficult to obtain). According to the UN, England's overall crime rate TOPS THE UNITED STATES! Per every 100,000 inhabitants, almost 1,000 more thefts have occured, nearly 1,000 more burglaries, and more than 500 frauds have occured.



According to the International Crime Victims Survey, 26% of British citizens have been victimized by violent crime. Australia had more than 30% of it's citizens victimized. The US didn't even may it to the Top 10 list of Industrialized countries. Did the violent crime rate using firearms drop? Yes, a bit. But, violent crime using other means (swords, knives, baseball bats, swing a dead cat around like a nun-chuck) rose.



Oh yeah, England and Australia lead the world in number of vehicle thefts.



Gun Control Works Very Well!!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902

To quote a British Citizen who's wife is being attacked in her own home "STOP! Or I'll Yell Stop Again!"



To quote a US Citizen who's wife is being attacked in her own home "Bang!"





More than 192 million firearms (including all 5 of mine) have not killed anyone today.



Between 4

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gun control is one of those issues you can't seem to debate unemotionally; kinda like abortion. Furthermore, those that are pro-choice are often also for stiffer gun control, and vice-versa, which I find somewhat ironic. Then again, I'm not worried about being killed by someone's legally or illegally obtained abortion; but legally or illegally obtained guns on the other hand, that's a different story.



I don't think we need more gun laws...we just need to enforce the ones we have and institute stiffer penalties.



I am one of those guys that thinks the rights of others are paramount, as long as I don't have to be negatively affected by their rights.



TJR

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

All laws do is affect the law abiding citizen. If I want to tlegally own a Class III (full auto) firearm, I have to:



1) Apply for the forms

2) Get my Cheif Law Enforcement Officer to sign the forms

3) Pass a rigerous background check

4) Make sure my city and state don't have laws banning Class III

5) Pay a $200 tax to Uncle Sam

6) Find a FA Firearms for sale (often $10,000 or more)

7) Pay a Class III dealer as much as another $200 for the transfer

8) Receive the weapon (about 2-3 months after step one)



If I want to buy one illegally,

1) Find the nearest drug dealer or black marketeer

2) Pay $4,000

3) Walk away and not look back (about 1 hour after step 1)



So what exactly does gun control laws do again?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Unenforced laws do nothing, R Shek, that's what I was saying.



The laws and regulations themselves aren't bad. It's allowing the illegal activity that is.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Agree. No new laws, get rid of some of the redundant and restrictive laws, enfore the laws that make sence. Simple.

 

[Shawn Hennessy]

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/9teob" target="_blank">Cheney and his Daisy Red Rider</a>...you'll shoot someone's eye out, Dick!

 

[Josh Langel]

gwac,



Do you have actual friends? I mean, it seems to me you have come to this board just to argue a few points that are just way off topic from each other. Have you ever engaged in a conversation with anyone? If so, did you randomly shift the topic just to start another debate? You are a tool. Yes, a tool.



Oh, maybe when I get back from "coaching soccer practice" too, we can talk about something else. I have such a life that I need to be online the second I come home and debate about something that has nothing to do with me. I am glad that your beliefs are changing the world. I would think that a criminal loves to hear you don't protect your home. I bet you would defend you family well with words. :lol:

 

[TrainTrac]

MAKING SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING



We are engaged in the most dramatic battle for human civilization since the last World War. Yesterday the word was spreading that Iran had once again started the process of refining uranium into weapons grade fuel. Did you hear much about that in the media? Nope ... all they could talk about yesterday was Dick Cheney's hunting accident. What did he know and when did he know it?



Now, Cheney deserves scrutiny for and gunning down a 78-year-old man. But what you're seeing from the media is the Watergate template in action. They're reliving the glory days. So any of these journalists actually think they can bring down a president...or a vice-president? Today the big question is how long should it be before the people know that the vice-president has been involved in a hunting accident?



Which brings us to the chief idiot of the White House press corps, NBC's David Gregory. Who seems to make it his business to push the Democratic agenda under the guise of being a reporter. Things got a bit testy in the off-camera portion of yesterday's press conference...but evidently Gregory and Scott McClellan kissed and made up. Anyway, the controversy is over the timeline of the Cheney shooting at the private ranch in Texas.



Maybe it's just me, but while Iran is trying to get its hand on a nuke; while armed and uniformed Mexicans are shooting at U.S. law enforcement personnel along our borders; while congress is spending us into oblivion --- I somehow find it hard to get worked up over how we learned that Dick Cheney bagged an attorney. So .... How about a big "who cares" here?



Wait! Let's not forget the controversy about Cheney not paying $7 on his Texas hunting license to be able to shoot the type of bird he was hunting. Here's an idea: if you shoot a person when you're hunting, how about suspending that person's hunting license? Just a thought.

Boortz is absolutely right. There are many more important issues going on in the world right now, but the media jumps all over this like a pack of wild dogs in a feeding frenzy in an effort to smear or bring down the Bush administration. One idiot reporter even asked Scott McClellan the asinine question "Do you think that Vice President Cheney should step down?"



Give me a break!:angry:

 

[Greg A]

Thanks for your response Mud, but since it was Dale it was directed at, I am not

sure why you responded. I guess it was to call me another name (tool).





By the way I live in a country where one does not need a gun to protect themselves....



I wonder how many insulting names I have been called on this thread.... I guess

when people do not agree with others, the more intelligent ones resort to name

calling.....Is that how it works?

 

[Josh Langel]

Yes.