Illegal Immigrants. Your opinion.

Ford SportTrac Forum

Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Let me see if I understand this...



I'm not an US Citizen.



I entered the country illegally.



I work for an employer illegally.



I might have obtain a drivers license and social security card illegally.



However, I want all the same rights as any american citizen has.



What am I missing?
 
Joseymack..thank you, on issues like this people's true colors really come out. I'm sure we are all being judged right now, no, not by our peers, but by the Almighty. We are all his children no matter where (country) we live in, what language we speak, how well educated we are or aren't, how rich or poor we maybe.

Being a minority myself, I have been there and let me tell you people can be so cruel and have no qualms about showing their feelings toward minorities.

We should be proud that these people want to be part of this country, I'm sure that if coming here makes them feels worthy of themselves, so be it. We will always have political and racial problems with or without these people.

If this is how Americans feel, then why does our government send us (military) to foreign countries to live? Do you think these countries like having us there? I know from expierence that they do not want us in their countries. When you start seeing and having to drive through protesters against Americans in a foreign country the feeling is not good.



Why can't people just learn to love one another and quit judging people by their race or country whether they are here legally or illegally. We are all here for a reason.........and all these things happen for a reason.........just ask our Judge
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No matter what your position is in this matter (either for or against) remember to email your Senators and House Representative and vote this fall.



US Senate

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm



US House of Representatives

http://www.house.gov/writerep/











 
josemack,
All I know is people go around it? I can guess it's probably because they know they will get a kick in the ass and an adios! If the Italians and Irish had these kinda chances when they came to Ellis island I think things would have been different, but like I said before all they had to do was get here....
. I don't think so. They had to be sponsored, have a job, and in good health. There was no "you got here so your in" deal as you suggest.



This is a sovereign country and makes its own rules as to who comes here and who doesn't. Are citizenship is available to those who apply through legal channels. Yup, some have to wait many years before they get the invitation, but that's life. Just because someone has something you want does not entitle to to just go take it. Yes, there are poor conditions in Mexico, but so are there poor conditions in Lawanda, Dominican Republic, Phillipines, etc. etc. etc. Does that mean that we should just let all of them that get here in? I don't think so. If America is SO GREAT, then it should be worth the wait. U.S.citizenship is too precious a gift to give away cheaply!



No one is arguing that the Hispanic workers are not hard workers, so what. The Chinese and the Indians are too. I am STRONGLY against any amnesty for the illegals that are here. As far as a guest worker program, a work visa which must be renewed yearly is a minimum. I would not have them participate in the Social Security system and would require them to have health and auto insurances and pay income tax. I don't think there would be enough money left over for thm to send back home.



I also do not believe that just because a child is born here that he should be an American citizen. I believe to get that right the mother must be a guest of the country as in a permanent resident visa, entered the USA legally via a legitimate passport, etc. Illegals do NOT have the same rights as American citizens. If the get in trouble let their embassy supply the lawyer for their defense instead of us providing one to them.



The FREEBEES have gone way too far to people who are not citizens.
 
My mom is from Germany. She became a citizen the legal way.



A good friend of mine is from South Africa. He had dual citizenship. Italy and South Africa. (The reason was his father was from Italy and since he was married to a woman in South Africa, he wanted to make sure if hell broke out in South Africa, he and his family could go to Italy for protection and be able to work, etc. but that is a different story.)



As I was saying, he came over using his South African passport. he met a girl and decided to stay. His old employer called him and needed him to go back for a really important job. So he did. When coming back to the USA, he could have used his Italian Passport instead of his South African passport. If he were to have used the Italian one, he could become a citizen quicker then if he used his South African one. he chose to use the South African passport. Why? because he doesn't feel he should exploit the system to become a citizen of the USA.



If it were legal, I would love to work "under the table" and I would be willing to take a pay cut. The only ones that benefit from hiring illegals are the employers, not the employees. We ultimatly pay for it.



You are not a citizen, you have no rights since the Constitution does not apply to you. Don't like it? Go back to where you come from. Don't like where you come from, stand up. Create a change. Overthrow your dictator, president, Prime Minister, or any other political leader. If enough people stand up, no matter where you live, you will create a change.





Tom
 
joseymack says
For months always complaining the job market sucked since the fall of the stock market ~2000-2001..... Never once were they looking for a fruit stand job or a landscaping job... Instead the jobs they were looking for were being sent to India and the far east for cheap labor.... Capitalism at it best, so you RIGHT wing conservative types got what you wanted Big business at any cost even selling you country down the river for bigger profits... BE mad at them not these immigrants..



Given that I was laid off from an IT job in 2001, have been in the industry for 20 years, and have been accused of being one of those "right-wing" conservative types, I can tell you that you are wrong on so many levels, Josey.



The stock market fall that you alluded two was due to two events:



1) The Internet/New Economy bubble burst, a burst that happened when investors realized that much of the "new economy" was simply not there and that most .com's would NEVER show a profit;



2) Sept 11, 2001 was DEVASTATING to our economy and the stock market.



So, we saw a very big slide in 1999 and 2000, and a huge hit in 2001.



The jobs that were lost during that time were mostly IT, sales and New Economy related jobs created by the Internet boom of the late 80s. Those jobs were fueling an artificial economy fueled by artificial businesses. When the "artificiallity" was wiped clean, the jobs disappeared.



I chased several start-ups during that time, and was with one when the bottom fell out, and I was laid off. Luckily, I was not a "johnny come lately" to the trade, and landed on my feet (actually started my own company).



What "little" offshoring (what you call the "selling of America") continues today is in the type of commodity work; jobs like maintainance programming, call centers, and rudimentary spec programming. There are still TONS of IT jobs in this country for the right people, and the demand outpaces the college grads each year.



As for the loss of manufacturing jobs to Mexico, etc, the handwriting has been on the wall on that one for decades. This is all part of outsourcing, something that is not new at all. And, the trend will continue...



TJR
 
Come here legally. That's all we ask. I have no problems with immigration, my grandmother came here from Ireland. Most of my great-grandparents came from Germany.



As a non-citizen, you don't have rights, including any rights to gather and protest.



If you want support, just as with the Gay community, don't flaunt your differences, flaunt your simularities.



-Knock off the Mexican flags. You came here to get away from Mexico (supposedly). Knock it off.

-Learn English, again, you supposedly came here to get away from Mexico

-Obey the laws. You broke immigration laws. You are a criminal. This is not a grey area.

-Illegal Immigrant is not a racial slur. Get over yourselves.

-You have no right to free education

-You have no right to free healthcare

-You have a right to be arrested

-You have a right to be deported



If I were to sneak across the border to Mexico and was found to be there illegally, there would be hell to pay. Mexico does not tolerate illegal immigration. Why should we?



All this talk about parts of the US being former Mexican property? You're correct. However:

-Texas revolted, became their own country, then joined the US

-California revolted, became their own country (briefly) and then joined the US

-Parts of Arizona and New Mexico were purchased from the Mexican Government

-The rest of Arizona, New Mexico and most of Nevada were reparations for war



So, of the 5 states in question, two willfully left Mexico, 1/3 of two more were purchased and the rest was won in war. Sorry, you lose.



Do you really want to fight about it? Last I checked, we were a super power. You? You (Like Canada) rely on the might of the US to protect you.



Go protest in your own country and get the h-e-double hockey sticks out of my country. Try it again the proper way.

 
Someone asked how you get citizenship - legally.



While in your own country, you apply for a visa of some type - student, work, fiance, or simply immigration. Requires medical attestations and criminal records check - fingerprints etc.

You apply for a "green card" - or legal immigration status

You wait, different lengths of time for different reasons - military is currently the quickest

You apply for citizenship

you wait

You attend the interview/test session set up by INS (enter new name here)

You take a written test - on US history and gov't. Should be given to all citizens.

You take an oral test - in English, because it IS the official language of this country

You wait for an appointment to be sworn in

You DENOUNCE your prior citizenship - this is the part even the LEGALs are forgetting



Someone else said Don't give non-citizens social security. Most don't get it already. My spouse will have to get her citizenship to be eligible - yes, she has worked the 20 years she's been here.



Remove the illegals and replace that workforce with welfare recipients. No work-no welfare. The employer would in effect be replacing the welfare. Two problems solved. BILLIONS in welfare saved, taxes, medical/auto insurance goes down and offsets the the consumer goods increases. HAH!!!! :lol: Before you go off, I know it is not that simple. But it could just be a start :lol:



grump



EDIT. P.S. Some here, and other places, seem to think everyone that speaks out is against Hispanics. Although for some racist/supremacist idiots, that may be true, I don't think it is the case with the makority. I believe the issue is simply as stated; ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION regardless of where you started out. It is just that the vast majority, obviously because Euro's and Asians can't walk on water, is Hispanic.



Just a short personal story. I had a blow out while in my Vette. I point out the type of car because it's relevant. Not wishing to stop on the freeway during rush hour, I drove it along the shoulder and down the off ramp. No sooner had I stopped and a young feller, Hispanic, spoke very little English, pulled up behind me. He spoke to me, went back to his car and got a jack and pair of gloves. He then just proceeded to change my tire for me. At the same time, another Vette pulls up and out jumps a Hispanic guy. Offered to loan me his spare - didn't know me from Adam. Anyway, the guy finishes up and extends a hand shake which I accept. I then told him to hold on a mo' and I gave him ten bucks and told him to have a beer on me. During this time, how many whiteys do you think pulled over (I am White and 6'2" so not easy to miss). Just my experience



grump
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I work in construction in New Mexico, while I agree that they should pay taxes like the rest of us the reality is that prices would go through the roof, housing alone would be 20%-30% higher, who can afford to take that kind of hit. I don't any good solutions, we are in too deep
 
We have enough American Citizens living off the "system" without needing more. (Just look at New Orleans Katrina evacuees). These people don't give a sh*t about America. They just want our American money.
 
English is by far the easiest language there is to learn.



Deuce, you're kidding, right? English is one of the most difficult languages to learn as a second language, as it has such irregular verb structures and inconsistent spelling rules. Far easier are Spanish, or Italian, or Japanese, or French, or many other languages.
 
Bill V, you're kidding, right? English is one of the easiest languages to learn as a second language.



And I know first hand, I speak English, Spanish, Portuguese and French, and I can read Italian.



Want to have problems with verb conjugations?

Try Potuguese



Want to have problems with syntax and adverbs?

Try French



The only problem I had, and still have with English, is the many exceptions there are for any given rule... And how come "soup" is not pronounced like "sour", and the "ch" in "orchard" like the "ch" in "orchestra"...
 
My opinion?



I think there's no way you can solve this issue by going to any of the 2 extremes:



- You can't round them all up and send them back, you need money for that and that money is in Iraq (Mission Accomplished? the battle for Iraq's future is far from over).



- You can't give them all amnesty and legal residence, there are a lot of free riders and some criminals (now, don't tell me that there are no criminals outside the undocumented population, c'mon).



Step 1:

The border really needs to be controlled, build a wall, and since we're already on the subject, build a wall on the North, we don't want cheap Canadian medicines.. Build a wall on the maritime ports, in case they build barges... Oh, and let's put a ceiling, so they can't use a human cannon...



Seriously, tell everybody there are WMDs at the border... A lot of money will be put there.



Step 2:

Who gets what? (Let's be realistic, they're already here and they can't all be returned)

Identify those that are really working, I know many of them are already paying taxes either by having them retained by the employers when they use false social security numbers, or declaring them each year using an ITIN (look in the IRS website if you need to know what an ITIN is). And many are willing to pay what they have to pay in taxes and services.



Identify those free-riding, audit the welfare system, make the services cost something (sorry, those real citizens that are homelesswill need to collect more money on the streets to pay not only for drugs and beer, but also for some services).



We can't also talk about what it was 200 years ago in Ellis Island, otherwise, Were there any American Indians stamping visas?... C'mon it's the 21st century, leave your nostalgia behind.



You want something done?

Do what Patrick suggested, write to your representatives, you voted for them, didn't you?

Or join the minutemen.



I hope some will be able to see the sarcasm embedded in some remarks, but beyond that... that is my opinion, also look for the previous thread (titled "make sence" or something like that) for more opinions I've expressed.



Thank you

Gracias

Obrigado

Mercy beaucoup
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mexico certainly doesn't have the same attitude towards immigrants, (legal or illegal) as the U.S. does. They are very tough on immigrants.



Mexican Constitution's Solution to US Immigration Policy



4/10/06





The Congress has received lots of free advice lately from Mexican government officials and illegal aliens waving Mexico's flag in mass demonstrations coast-to-coast. Most of it takes the form of bitter complaints about our actual or prospective treatment of immigrants from that country who have gotten into this one illegally — or who aspire to do so.



If you think these critics are mad about US immigration policy now, imagine how upset they would be if we adopted an approach far more radical than the bill they rail against which was adopted last year by the House of Representatives — namely, the way Mexico treats aliens.



In fact, as a just-published paper by the Center for Security Policy's J. Michael Waller (http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf) points out, under a constitution first adopted in 1917 and subsequently amended, Mexico deals harshly not only with illegal immigrants. It treats even legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and foreign investors in ways that would, by the standards of those who carp about US immigration policy, have to be called "racist" and "xenophobic."



Mexico's Glass House



For example, according to an official translation published by the Organization of American States, the Mexican constitution includes the following restrictions:

• Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.



• Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable."



• Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered "indispensable" include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.



• Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be "a Mexican citizen by birth." Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.



• In accordance with Article 130, immigrants — even legal ones — may not become members of the clergy, either.



• Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."



• Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen's arrests. Article 16 states, "In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities." In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!



• The Mexican constitution states that foreigners — not just illegal immigrants — may be expelle
 
TJR you said
Given that I was laid off from an IT job in 2001, have been in the industry for 20 years, and have been accused of being one of those "right-wing" conservative types, I can tell you that you are wrong on so many levels, Josey.



I never said they were the cause of the downfall..... I know the whole stock market crashed, my point was that when you got laid off how many fruitstand and landscaping jobs did you apply for? There are tons of IT, Computer Science, Fab part testing & semiconductor jobs going overseas for cheap labor. These were pretty decent jobs 10 years ago. These are the very jobs someone in your profession is looking for.... My point was those are the jobs we are losing, and not to Mexicans, but to other countries in the name of profits at all costs.



One more thing..... Unions!! arrggggg

I know many union folks and it kills me these are usually guys making 60-100k a year with OT and all the perks... One Union guys I know comes from a stinking rich family and every year like clockwork gets laid off from his fathers company along with all his buddies... Collects all winter and skies and takes vacation... What's wrong with this picture? He says oh we pay into that so we take it but that's BS.... Unemployment pay in this country too is a joke.. I think the system is great but the abuse there is crazy..... You should not be allowed to take every winter off and get paid for it... That my friends is just another form of welfare.



Oh yea and our hospital pay is not only being driven up by illegals but it is more greedy Pharmacuticals and HMO's hitting our pockets like bandits.... How can you justify these 10 and 15% increases every year? Or for that matter howcome my ATM fee's just went up another .25-.50cents? That amounts to like a 25% increase in revenue for all these big banks.. Does the cost of having an atm dispense cash go up that much every year?



Lets face it guys this country has a problem with greed greed and more greed.... It's not the illegals that are your problem...



And for the record the terrorist attackers came in through CANADA.... Oh but let's leave them alone they look to much like the true blue Americans!:eek:



joseymack
 
TJR you said
Given that I was laid off from an IT job in 2001, have been in the industry for 20 years, and have been accused of being one of those "right-wing" conservative types, I can tell you that you are wrong on so many levels, Josey.



I never said they were the cause of the downfall..... I know the whole stock market crashed, my point was that when you got laid off how many fruitstand and landscaping jobs did you apply for? There are tons of IT, Computer Science, Fab part testing & semiconductor jobs going overseas for cheap labor. These were pretty decent jobs 10 years ago. These are the very jobs someone in your profession is looking for.... My point was those are the jobs we are losing, and not to Mexicans, but to other countries in the name of profits at all costs.



One more thing..... Unions!! arrggggg

I know many union folks and it kills me these are usually guys making 60-100k a year with OT and all the perks... One Union guys I know comes from a stinking rich family and every year like clockwork gets laid off from his fathers company along with all his buddies... Collects all winter and skies and takes vacation... What's wrong with this picture? He says oh we pay into that so we take it but that's BS.... Unemployment pay in this country too is a joke.. I think the system is great but the abuse there is crazy..... You should not be allowed to take every winter off and get paid for it... That my friends is just another form of welfare.



Oh yea and our hospital pay is not only being driven up by illegals but it is more greedy Pharmacuticals and HMO's hitting our pockets like bandits.... How can you justify these 10 and 15% increases every year? Or for that matter howcome my ATM fee's just went up another .25-.50cents? That amounts to like a 25% increase in revenue for all these big banks.. Does the cost of having an atm dispense cash go up that much every year?



Lets face it guys this country has a problem with greed greed and more greed.... It's not the illegals that are your problem...



And for the record the terrorist attackers came in through CANADA.... Oh but let's leave them alone they look to much like the true blue Americans!:eek:



joseymack
 
Joseymack says:
There are tons of IT, Computer Science, Fab part testing & semiconductor jobs going overseas for cheap labor. These were pretty decent jobs 10 years ago. These are the very jobs someone in your profession is looking for.... My point was those are the jobs we are losing, and not to Mexicans, but to other countries in the name of profits at all costs.



Okay, so I got your point, but this is nothing new. Offshoring in today's global economy is no different than outsourcing a decade ago, specialization a decade before that, and the agri-industrial revolution before that...



When agri technology allowed fewer farmers to produce more crops many family farms went under, but we as a society got better, cheaper, fresher produce.



When advancements in manufacturing allowed machines to do the work of many workers, we displaced workers, but we got better, cheaper manufactured products.



When specialization allowed companies to downsize, focus on their core businesses and hire out their accounting, payroll, HR, and other ancillary activities, they got better services at lower costs, and passed those savings on to the consumer.



The same is true as today's advancements in communications and opening labor markets across the globe have allowed for offshoring.



Yes, a few pay the cost in temporary job losses and/or reset wages, but we all reap the benefits. Gone are the times when you started working for a company out of school, got a 3% increase each year and retired in 35 years...gone for the last 40 years at least, I suspect.



And, aren't we at near record low unemployment? Don't I continue to see new SUVs parked in front of McMansions everywhere I drive? Aren't we as a country and our economy doing pretty darn good?



So how have all thes LOST JOBS hurt us?



TJR
 
The only big change I anticipate in our area is all the lazy ass white people in my neighborhood are going to have to get off their asses and mow their own damn lawns.

:rolleyes:
 
So how have all thes LOST JOBS hurt us?



Does anyone have any information of the Average wage across the country? What about the amount of people living in poverty? Has that number gone up?





Tom
 

Latest posts

Top