TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
It doesn't appear that Dingo consciously (or unconsciously) changed his driving habits to achieve better fuel economy!:lol:
Dingo - Fitch Results
- Thread starter Terry Schultz
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It doesn't appear that Dingo consciously (or unconsciously) changed his driving habits to achieve better fuel economy!:lol:
Dan Long
Well-Known Member
Dingo, I meant that they list the 96-2008 Explorers as having a 4.6 liter, but from 96-01 they had a 5.0 liter. I browsed a few other vehicles that I'm pretty familiar with and the years and motor choices seemed a bit out of wack. Like you said, if the connectors and flow rates are correct, that's all that matters, but if they've actually test fit and researched that well, why not list the correct motors to avoid any confusion?
Les
Well-Known Member
I think Dingo probabley consumes more gas per mile than any of us. So having him run the test and posting the results is about as good as it gets...
Dingo
Well-Known Member
I'm still at under 11 mpg avg. city driving on 93 octane. 
Les,
I don't understand? What does the amount of gas Dingo uses have to do with the validity of the data, or whether he subconsciencely altered is driving habits just a little bit and that accounted for some or all of the improvement.
I am not knocking Dingo for what he has done or for sharing the infromation of his "Unscientific test", which is better than just taking Fitch's word for it.
I just wish that there were a more scientifice, unbiased way of testing this and similar devices, so that the driver never knew if and when the device was connected, and even better, he never saw his odometer and just had the truck filled up when it started getting low on fuel...and even better if he did not fill it, but had a test official refuel the vehicle.
That way the driver would never know when the device was installed and running, nor exactly how many miles he drove, and how much gas he used. If this could be done on several vehicles that have different drivers and different driving conditions like mostly city vs mostly highway, it would help to show if the device really does save fuel, and if it does, is it more likely to save the fuel in stop and go driving, or highway driving?
And while I have the utmost respect for Dingo, he is not truely an unbiased tester. He clearly stated that he is talking with the Fitch Catalyst people on getting discounted pricing so he can start to sell these items. I would not consider that as being an unbiased tester?
...Rich
s
I don't understand? What does the amount of gas Dingo uses have to do with the validity of the data, or whether he subconsciencely altered is driving habits just a little bit and that accounted for some or all of the improvement.
I am not knocking Dingo for what he has done or for sharing the infromation of his "Unscientific test", which is better than just taking Fitch's word for it.
I just wish that there were a more scientifice, unbiased way of testing this and similar devices, so that the driver never knew if and when the device was connected, and even better, he never saw his odometer and just had the truck filled up when it started getting low on fuel...and even better if he did not fill it, but had a test official refuel the vehicle.
That way the driver would never know when the device was installed and running, nor exactly how many miles he drove, and how much gas he used. If this could be done on several vehicles that have different drivers and different driving conditions like mostly city vs mostly highway, it would help to show if the device really does save fuel, and if it does, is it more likely to save the fuel in stop and go driving, or highway driving?
And while I have the utmost respect for Dingo, he is not truely an unbiased tester. He clearly stated that he is talking with the Fitch Catalyst people on getting discounted pricing so he can start to sell these items. I would not consider that as being an unbiased tester?
...Rich
s
James B 3
Active Member
I keep fill up records on all three of my vehicles. Everytime I put gas in I write down, cost/gallon, how many gallons and total milage on the vehicle. I would like to get one of money permits. I drive about 100 miles a day, country and city mix. Will my current records I could certainly tell if there was an improvement or not.
jamesb
jamesb
Jim P
Active Member
I did a search on yahoo and came up with several hits on the fitch catalyst, their website has install instructions and various testimonals as well, some from some car mags, nothing negative in the comments i read, even from overseas, the product has been around for several years, even saw a video clip from horsepower tV where they installed one on their "pony up" project and mentioned an improvement (read decreased usuage) of gas used since the test motor was not in the car but on a dyno I believe. Did read one research paper that indicated none of these type "instruments/gadgets", etc don't work, Musclecarblog.com has install instructions as well, it was installed under the hood on the CAI heat shield, and then hooked to the fuel rail. Could be the magic pill/silver bullit
Dingo
Well-Known Member
Rich, you have a valid point. Let me share one piece of info with you, though. I paid full price for mine for testing.
Dingo,
I assumed you paid full price for the Fitch device you tested, but the price does not matter. You made an investment that you believed in and wanted it to work, and for you it did.
Many years ago, I purchased a device call the Platnum Fuel Catalyst (if I recall the name correctly) and it was guaranteed to improve mileage by 25%. It was shown in an add in the back of a Popular Mechanix mag. I really doubted that it would work, but the address was in town so I figgured that I could see their operation and see if I could determine how the scam worked.
The Office did exist and I walked in and purchased a kit for $89. The instructions indicated that you had to use the kit for 1500 miles before you could tell that the kit was working since it took time for the kit to remove the carbon, etc from the engine. I did not mention that I worked out of town and had a brand new car so there would be very little if any carbon to clean out, and I would put 1500 miles on the vehicle very quickly.
In a little less than 3 weeks, I completed the 1500 miles with no measurable improvment in MPG. I removed the device, packed it back in the original box, with the guarantee and returned to the office. Now the office was locked and the sign was no longer on the door. I check with another office and was told that they came and emptied the office a few nights earlier and never told anybody. I was not suprised.
When I got my credit card bill with the $89 charge on it, I call the credit card company and had them remove the charge. They sent me a form to fill out and I explained their guarantee and included a copy and told them when I tried to return the device for a refund they had skipped town. I got all my money back and even got to keep the Platnum fuel saver, which sat in my garage for about a year until a friend of mine wanted to try it, so I gave it to him. It didn't work for him either.
My point is that I knew I could get the 1500 mile test done before my credit card bill came, and I never really believed it would work...and it didn't. I was comfortable that I would not lose any money even if the company skiped town since their operation was in my town. Had this been strictly a mail-order transaction, things would have been very different and I would have never purchased the device in the first place.
I often wonder how many people did buy those devices and how many actually beleived they worked?
Just like putting cow magnets on your fuel line. If you believe it will improve your mileage, you will be convinced that it does.
...Rich
I assumed you paid full price for the Fitch device you tested, but the price does not matter. You made an investment that you believed in and wanted it to work, and for you it did.
Many years ago, I purchased a device call the Platnum Fuel Catalyst (if I recall the name correctly) and it was guaranteed to improve mileage by 25%. It was shown in an add in the back of a Popular Mechanix mag. I really doubted that it would work, but the address was in town so I figgured that I could see their operation and see if I could determine how the scam worked.
The Office did exist and I walked in and purchased a kit for $89. The instructions indicated that you had to use the kit for 1500 miles before you could tell that the kit was working since it took time for the kit to remove the carbon, etc from the engine. I did not mention that I worked out of town and had a brand new car so there would be very little if any carbon to clean out, and I would put 1500 miles on the vehicle very quickly.
In a little less than 3 weeks, I completed the 1500 miles with no measurable improvment in MPG. I removed the device, packed it back in the original box, with the guarantee and returned to the office. Now the office was locked and the sign was no longer on the door. I check with another office and was told that they came and emptied the office a few nights earlier and never told anybody. I was not suprised.
When I got my credit card bill with the $89 charge on it, I call the credit card company and had them remove the charge. They sent me a form to fill out and I explained their guarantee and included a copy and told them when I tried to return the device for a refund they had skipped town. I got all my money back and even got to keep the Platnum fuel saver, which sat in my garage for about a year until a friend of mine wanted to try it, so I gave it to him. It didn't work for him either.
My point is that I knew I could get the 1500 mile test done before my credit card bill came, and I never really believed it would work...and it didn't. I was comfortable that I would not lose any money even if the company skiped town since their operation was in my town. Had this been strictly a mail-order transaction, things would have been very different and I would have never purchased the device in the first place.
I often wonder how many people did buy those devices and how many actually beleived they worked?
Just like putting cow magnets on your fuel line. If you believe it will improve your mileage, you will be convinced that it does.
...Rich
Les
Well-Known Member
Rich, I agree a more precise and controlled study similar to what you suggest would be better, however, it appears at this time such a body of research is not available. Since Dingo has offered a full refund, and he feels confident in this product, I, for one, will consider it. I don't expect miracles, yet, an improvement in gas milage of 10 to 15% would be nice...
Les,
That basicly what I am saying. There are too many people claiming to provide unbiased testing that have other hidden agendas.
I recently looked at a copy of Consumer Reports at the newsstand and it flatly stated that virtually all the so called "gas savings" devices that have appeared everytime there has been a major hike in gas prices, have been proven not to work. They claimed any mileage increase was negligable and all fell within the normal operating ranges of the test.
They did state that most did not hurt mileage, but there were a few that did, and some where even dangerous because there have been reports of those Tornado/Vortex devices where a fin would break off and get sucked into the engine causing major damage
I agree that there are not definitive test to tell us if the Fitch or any of these devices really work, and even those that sound honest and unbiased may not be so.
That's why I think some kind of an unbiased blind test like mahy of the drug tests that are done where subjects are given the real medication being tested, and others get a placebo that is filled with a totally inert substance. If the driver does not know if he is drive a vehicle equiped with the device or not and he does not know what mileage or gas consumption is being recorded. If they device is activated and deactivated at differenct periods of time, over the period of the test you will have mileage figures for when the devices is connected and mieage figures for when the device is not connected
If I had invented one of these devices and I knew it could save gas, I would do just that kind of a test, report it, and make the device available to any automotive publication that wanted to conduct a duplicate of that test, and would allow me access to control when the device was turned on and when it was turned off, I would record that in a database. That way the testers would not even know when the device was on or off and could not bias the data.
I just wonder why none of the developers of these devices never do that? They aways claim that an Independent lab confirmed their results, or that the devices is being tested by the military??? Why do we never hear about the results of the miltary testing? Probably because it was classified and cannot be publshed, or some other bureaucratic red tape....and good luck trying to find anyone who knows what tests you are talking about?
..Like I said, I hope it works, but i am very skeptical right now.
...Rich
That basicly what I am saying. There are too many people claiming to provide unbiased testing that have other hidden agendas.
I recently looked at a copy of Consumer Reports at the newsstand and it flatly stated that virtually all the so called "gas savings" devices that have appeared everytime there has been a major hike in gas prices, have been proven not to work. They claimed any mileage increase was negligable and all fell within the normal operating ranges of the test.
They did state that most did not hurt mileage, but there were a few that did, and some where even dangerous because there have been reports of those Tornado/Vortex devices where a fin would break off and get sucked into the engine causing major damage
I agree that there are not definitive test to tell us if the Fitch or any of these devices really work, and even those that sound honest and unbiased may not be so.
That's why I think some kind of an unbiased blind test like mahy of the drug tests that are done where subjects are given the real medication being tested, and others get a placebo that is filled with a totally inert substance. If the driver does not know if he is drive a vehicle equiped with the device or not and he does not know what mileage or gas consumption is being recorded. If they device is activated and deactivated at differenct periods of time, over the period of the test you will have mileage figures for when the devices is connected and mieage figures for when the device is not connected
If I had invented one of these devices and I knew it could save gas, I would do just that kind of a test, report it, and make the device available to any automotive publication that wanted to conduct a duplicate of that test, and would allow me access to control when the device was turned on and when it was turned off, I would record that in a database. That way the testers would not even know when the device was on or off and could not bias the data.
I just wonder why none of the developers of these devices never do that? They aways claim that an Independent lab confirmed their results, or that the devices is being tested by the military??? Why do we never hear about the results of the miltary testing? Probably because it was classified and cannot be publshed, or some other bureaucratic red tape....and good luck trying to find anyone who knows what tests you are talking about?
..Like I said, I hope it works, but i am very skeptical right now.
...Rich
Richard Toms
Well-Known Member
I would be interested in 2 kits. Item numbers F3624 for my 04 ST and F3424 for my 95 Ranger. I don't know exactly what would make the difference in the kits, but there must be something. I drive the ST about 80 miles a day. I get about 4 days and I need to refill. I am willing to pay and go with it. If I could get 5% increase, I'd be happy. I believe I am only getting about 13-15mpg and thats with every add on except headers and S/C.
I would say on a side note though. Would like to buy for ST first, then if any changes, will purchase later for Ranger.
I would say on a side note though. Would like to buy for ST first, then if any changes, will purchase later for Ranger.
Dingo
Well-Known Member
I honestly didn't expect any results. I just thought, "Hell, if it doesn't work, you get your money back and it's not permanent. Why not find out?" I was actually surprised.
You want good testing? Buy one, and test it however you'd like. You have nothing to lose, as I didn't. Furthermore, the company that makes it isn't exactly a starter business.
You want good testing? Buy one, and test it however you'd like. You have nothing to lose, as I didn't. Furthermore, the company that makes it isn't exactly a starter business.
Terry Schultz
Active Member
Dingo -- All I need to know is how much $$ to send you.
Terry
Terry
Dingo
Well-Known Member
Well, I'll have it all up tomorrow as a group buy. We'll need 10 to place the initial order. I'm still doing some research with the first gens to make sure I have the right part numbers and fittings so nobody gets the wrong part.
Jim parnell
Well-Known Member
fitch company itself also offers a $$ back guarantee
Craig Childs
Active Member
Depending upon the price I would be in for a group buy
I agree that it's great that the company gives a "Money-back guarantee", however promising you your money back and actually getting your money back can be two very different things.
Too many scams promis to give you you money back if you are not satisfied, but when you try to get your money back, the company has closed it's doors, or you must have installed it incorrectly, etc, etc, etc....just excuses.
I do know that chemicals can be modified by catalytic action. If that catalytic action can improve fuel mileage remains to be seen, but Fitch may have developed something hat actually works to some degree. I just wish they had more definitive and scientific test data that would prove beyond a doubt that it works and is not a placebo that people think works because they subconsciencely drive more economically.
Another point that makes me skeptical is their lack of any scientific explaination of how the device works/. And if it does work, why is there no patent? Even the Tornado device has a patent. The patent office will not award patents for inventions that cannot do what they are claimed to do if science or physics say they can't work That's why you cannot get a patent on a propetual motion machine...They don't do anything usefull.
...Rich
Too many scams promis to give you you money back if you are not satisfied, but when you try to get your money back, the company has closed it's doors, or you must have installed it incorrectly, etc, etc, etc....just excuses.
I do know that chemicals can be modified by catalytic action. If that catalytic action can improve fuel mileage remains to be seen, but Fitch may have developed something hat actually works to some degree. I just wish they had more definitive and scientific test data that would prove beyond a doubt that it works and is not a placebo that people think works because they subconsciencely drive more economically.
Another point that makes me skeptical is their lack of any scientific explaination of how the device works/. And if it does work, why is there no patent? Even the Tornado device has a patent. The patent office will not award patents for inventions that cannot do what they are claimed to do if science or physics say they can't work That's why you cannot get a patent on a propetual motion machine...They don't do anything usefull.
...Rich
Dingo
Well-Known Member
It IS patented. And I'll PERSONALLY refund any member's money if the manufacturers of Fitch have an issue with the refund.
Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
Send me one dingo, call it a wash on the scangauge I gave you, gratis.
