Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot............................

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Everything has to get paid for at some point by somebody however. My guess is that in Canada it's the VAT tax and/or income tax, but I don't live there so I can't say for sure. I'll shut up now.



Note to R Shek...One of my degrees is in economics and I used to teach econ part-time at a local college until I got the teachers' union mad at me. Go figure. :lol:
 
Lastly 1 in 40 people living in Canada is AMERICAN. I have five american families

living in the development I live in...They like it. The person working beside me is American,

he loves it here.



Its not a bad place to live.... Yes Canada has problems but hey what country doesn`t.



The other side I have Canadian friends who live in the United States and love it...



There is not alot of differences between Canadians and Americans....
 
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oh by the way when u sell your house no tax



Same thing here.





But thanks for clarifying the tax issues. As I said, not being a Canadian, I wasn't fully aware of all the tax laws. A few you didn't mention, however are sales tax and Value Added Tax. What is the national sales tax rate, and if there's a VAT, what is that rate? And these would be on top of any provincial and local sales tax rates, right?



And isn't the national sals tax supposed to go towards health care? Just how good is the health care? I've not heard many good things about it. My son has a rare genetic condition receives excellent health care here in the U.S., along with a lot of therapies. We know some Canadian citizens with children having the same condition who are frustrated when we tell them of the care we receive here. They say that they have extremely long waits for referrals and treatments, and can't even get some of the therapies we get here.



I've never said that we have a perfect world here in the U.S. We have our fair share share of problems too. As for public education, our system is completly screwed up. That's one of the reasons I think it should be abolished. Read John Stossel's reports on public education. They're pretty enlightening.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-1_11_06_JS.html

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-1_18_06_JS.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-1_25_06_JS.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_1_06_JS.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_8_06_JS.html




Guess what i do not live in a igloo and eat whale blubber any other canadian misconcpetions



I never said or inferred any such thing, so don't put words in my mouth. I haven't insulted you, I've tried to carry on this discussion with the class and treat you with the utmost dignity. You have corrected me on things that I was misinformed about, such as the various taxes. That's fine, I stand corrected. But I've also attempted to point out the hypocrisy of several of your other statements that were in contradiction with one another. I won't waste time re-listing them, they're in my previous posts above. But instead of rebutting, you either try to change to subject or avoid answering altogether.



I'm sure that Canada is a good place to live, despite it's problems. I've been there (Victoria and Vancouver), and it's a beautiful country. The U.S. is a great place to live, too, but it has many problems to overcome as well.

 
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Something I heard a friend saying earlier today, completely tongue-in-cheek:



"I heard on the radio that Cheney said he wasn't aiming at Huffington--he was aiming at a Quayle. I can understand the desire to do that several years ago, but why now? Dan's been out of the spotlight, and therefore not embarrassing the Republican party, for several years now."



:lol
 
You may be getting tax cuts but its at the expense of future generations.



Well, I guess it's time for a lesson in Economics 101:

Taxes are a means of artificial inflation. A tax or tarriff unrationally raises the price on good and/or services, either directly (sales tax) or indirectly (income tax). A rise in taxes means a rise in costs for the producer, therfore causes inflation. Inflation causes the value of a dollar (or any currency) to devaluate. Devaluation means that the smae amount of money buys less, therefore prices have to be raised in order to make a prfit (a concept that liberals and socialists tend to not understand).



There is an anecdot to this proven fact, that is that if you cut taxes, the cost of goods and services decline, therefore the dollar increases in value. A person can buy more with the same size paycheck. If a person has more to spend, he/she will spend more. Since roughly 3/5th the US government income is in sales tax, that means a greater increase in sales tax revenue. A 2% decrease in income tax will break approximately even just in everyday sales. On big ticket items (cars, boats, durable goods) the amount of revenue collected will increase. It's the the Time Valueation of Money.



-Tim makes $500,000 a year.

-Time receves a 2% reduction in taxes, or $10,000

-Tim puts $10,000 in savings at 2% APR, pays 10% capital gains on his earnings

-The bank loans John $9,900 at 5% APR, pays 21% on it's earnings

-John spends $9,750 to purchase items for a home renevation at Home Depot (let's call it RONA for out northern friends), pays 8% sales tax

-Home Depot (RONA) pays 24% on it's earnings, but buys $9,000 worth of restock from Dewalt at 8% sales tax

-Dewalt pays 21% on the profit from $9,000, but has to purchase $8,000 worth of raw material at 8% from Alcoa

-Alcoa pays 20% on the income of the sale, plus pays the mining company $3,000 for aluminum ore.

-The mining company pays 21% income tax, in addition to taxes on the land the mine is on, taxes on the fuel purchased, taxes on any equipment it buys, etc.



This also doesn not take into consideration all the payroll taxes that the government will collect.



Total revenue generated by the US government on a $10,000 "investment":

$20

$104

$780

$702

$720

$567

$640

$480

$240

$189

$630



Stricktly in sales tax, the US government recovers nearly $5100. Add in all the income tax still collected, plus all the incidental taxes and the government recovers $10,000+. It's a subset of Trickle-Down Economics.



It's A PROVEN FACT that decreaseing taxes increase tax revenue. It happened in the 80's under Reagan, it's happening now under Bush. The US economy went to crap 2 years after Clinton raised taxes. Coincident? Nope. Tax raises usually cause the economy to decline approximate 2-5 years after the occurance. Tax decreases cause an upward trend in the economy in approximatly the same period. President Bush cut taxes in 2002. In 2005 we had the best economy in 8 years. Our unemplyment is currently lower than at ANY POINT under Clinton. The only reason we are not in a time of unprecidented economic expansion is due to oil and energy prices.



Again, facts are very hard to disprove.



Note to R Shek...One of my degrees is in economics and I used to teach econ part-time at a local college until I got the teachers' union mad at me. Go figure.



Congradulations! It's is my lifelong desire to piss a union off enough to boot me. My problem is now there is no way in hell I would join a Union.... oh well. So now, I do my best to piss off Caymen :wub: j/k dude... I like ya. You stick up for your principles. :cool:
 
-Tim makes $500,000 a year.

-Time receves a 2% reduction in taxes, or $10,000

-Tim puts $10,000 in savings at 2% APR, pays 10% capital gains on his earnings

-The bank loans John $9,900 at 5% APR, pays 21% on it's earnings

-John spends $9,750 to purchase items for a home renevation at Home Depot (let's call it RONA for out northern friends), pays 8% sales tax

-Home Depot (RONA) pays 24% on it's earnings, but buys $9,000 worth of restock from Dewalt at 8% sales tax

-Dewalt pays 21% on the profit from $9,000, but has to purchase $8,000 worth of raw material at 8% from Alcoa

-Alcoa pays 20% on the income of the sale, plus pays the mining company $3,000 for aluminum ore.

-The mining company pays 21% income tax, in addition to taxes on the land the mine is on, taxes on the fuel purchased, taxes on any equipment it buys, etc.



This also doesn not take into consideration all the payroll taxes that the government will collect.



Thanks, R Shek. You just showed exactly why the Fair Tax needs to be passed.



The Fair Tax Act of 2005 is currently before Congress. It abolishes all current income-based taxes, specifically the:



* Individual income tax

* Alternative minimum tax (AMT)

* Corporate and business income taxes

* Capital gains tax

* Social Security tax

* Medicare tax

* Payroll tax

* Self-employment tax

* Death tax

* Gift tax



See what the federal tax system is really costing you with one of the most up to date papers: www.fairtax.org/pdfs/Tax_compliance_facts.pdf .



Here is an interesting study, just issued, from the Joint Economic Committee which says that the income tax hinders capitol formation and that a consumption tax is the way to go. There are many good citations and references. Take a look.



http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/109/02-08-06captax.pdf



 
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I am and have been for the Fair Tax since I was 16 years old and began making money. I can go for either a Fair Tax or a National Sales Tax, as long as it is just that, FAIR.



This is my proposal:

A National Sales Tax:

-A flat 18-19% flat sales tax on all goods purchased, not matter if it's a $.29 roll of toilet paper of a $12,000,000 Gulfstream 5, excluding Home Sales

-Complete elimination of any and all other sales taxes (federal, state or local)

-Complete revokation of the NAtional Income Tax

-Complete revokation of all State and Local Income Taxes

-Complete elimination of any/all Property Taxes

-Complete elimination of any/all exemptions, loophole, tax shelters

-Exceptions to the 18% tax include items that are currently listed under the WIC program: Mile, Eggs, Bread, etc. These will be at a 5% tax rate



-The US Government would not be allowed to assess any tax or tarrif on US Citizens beyond this. The US Government could be allowed to assess taxes or tariffs on imports in a manner consistant with current federal law

-No exceptions can or will be made for any reason (ie war, pestilance, famine, etc)

-If the government can't afford it, guess what? It doesn't get purchased.



Priority of government Spending

-Provide for the common defence (domestic and foreign)

-All else



This would be a consitutional amendment, thereby requiring 2/3 of the states to approve any changes. Let's see the politicians play tax games with this.



BTW, I have considered running for US Senate. It will be a few years, but I am seriously considering it. Problem is I am a relatively-poor engineering and economics educated white man. I am Pro-Life, Pro-Christ, Pro-Gun, Pro-Hunter, Pro-Meat, Anti-Subsidy, Anti-Tax, Anti-Department of Education, Anti-Tenure, Anti-UN, Pro-War on Terror, Anti-Socialist, Pro-Death Penalty, Pro-Small Government, Anti-Entitlement, Pro-Education Voucher, Pro-Terrorist Survailence, Pro-Consitution, Pro-Free Speech, Pro-Family Values, Pro-Self Repect, Pro-Self Sufficient, Pro-Common Sence, Christian First, Conservative Second, Independant minded.



R Shek for Senate 2016 (Arkansas or Missouri, havn't decided yet)! Look for my brother (C Shek) for Senate and/or President in 2024 (seriously, he will probably be a politician).
 
Now THAT is FUNNY!! I especially like the "telekinesis" pic, especially funny since his nickname is "Darth Vader"



No humor in the actual pain and injury to his friend, but plenty of humor in the perception of Cheney.
 
Fair Tax - PLEASE pass it!!!



GWAC is correct from the perspective that we are bled to death through a thousand paper cuts while Canada has fewer but larger taxes. One warning GWAC, we used to have smaller AND fewer taxes, I am sure the same will happen to Canada.



One example of hidden taxes in the USA. A few years back I needed a to store/transport small electronic items for light and sound systems, so I went to Wal Mart to get a tackle box. The WalMart guy in sporting goods told me that I could buy the exact same box in the arts and crafts section for $ 10 less. It seems there was an "excise fee" on the tackle box for fisheries management. That is a tax.



If you are in a middle tax bracket for Federal income tax, you pay well over 50% of your income to your total tax bill when you add in gas taxes, car tags, etc etc.



For more complete info read "The Greedy Hand" by Amity Schlae (sp?)
 
Question - the WHite House press corp is upset becasue they weren't told immediately. Even though Cheney reported it to the local press, the White house elites are upset.



Ask yourself, why aren't they angry that the Democratic Minority Leader waited three days to reveal the stroke he had last week?



Why weren't they on Hillary about Vince Foster records removed by her staff and never seen again, the Vince Foster suicide note not released for days, lost billing records found in her residence at the WH, stonewalling on Monice, Travelgate, Whitewater, etc etc?



Why are they not ripping her comments that the Bush White house has a track record of not being forthcoming? hello, are you Ms. Black Pot or Ms. Black Kettle??



Why weren't they upset with Kerry for not releasing his Naval records? The ones that showed hsi scores at Yale were lower than W Bushs?



Even though 90% of them vote Democratic and we KNOW they aren't biased, why the selctive outrage?
 
R shek



I like the idea of one tax, the problem with a large tax in one place is it gives

people the incentive to create an underground economy. A cash society.



I think i should be tax once and thats it... Whether it is an income or sales tax

i do not care. Some how they need to control any underground economy that is created.





 
I like the idea of one tax, the problem with a large tax in one place is it gives

people the incentive to create an underground economy. A cash society.



gwac, you get that no matter what.



In the U.S. tax system, people take deducations they aren't entitled to. Employers pay illegal aliens in cash to avoid payroll taxes. Barter transactions go unreported. Inventory value is underreported to reduce property taxes. Etc. etc. etc.



And then there are "above ground" tax avoidance schemes like off-shore banking, which don't actually violate the law, but violate the spirit of the law with barely legal and intensely complex structures to exploit unintended loopholes.



Whenever there is a tax, people will create alternative transactions to avoid the tax. If there are hundreds of taxes, there will be hundreds of alternatives.



The most important thing about a single tax system: Accountability in government. If the sales tax rate is 23%, and the next year, politicians want 25%, it's very hard to hide it from the public. The public can vote them out in the next election on the basis of that one, very hard to hide tax increase. In our current system, hiding that stuff is as easy as taking candy from a baby (which is what they do to us). There is so much smoke and mirror crap in the current system that we still have unsolvable arguments about 20 year old tax code changes and whether they were actually cuts or increase and whether or not they were good or bad.



We need the FairTax in the worst possible way.
 
I like the idea of one tax, the problem with a large tax in one place is it gives

people the incentive to create an underground economy. A cash society.



I think i should be tax once and thats it... Whether it is an income or sales tax

i do not care. Some how they need to control any underground economy that is created.



Actually, a national sales tax (in this case the Fair Tax) addresses the undergound economy, where an income tax does not. From the Fair Tax website's thumbnail sketch:



Tax criminals - don't make criminals out of honest taxpayers.

Today, the IRS will admit to 25 percent non-compliance with the code. FairTax.org will be generous and simply take the position that this is likely a conservative estimate of the underground economy. However, this does not take into account the criminal/drug/porn economy, which equally conservative estimates put at one trillion dollars of untaxed activity. The FairTax will tax this - criminals love to flash that cash at retail - while continuing to provide the federal penalties so effective in bringing such miscreants to justice. The substantial decrease in points of compliance - from every wage earner, investor, and retiree, down to only retailers - also allows enforcement to concentrate on following the money to criminal activity, rather than making potential criminals out of every taxpayer struggling to decipher the current code.



Go to the Fair Tax web site and read the research.
 
If I buy something from a friend, it won't matter if a fair tax is passed or not as I don't pay taxes on a purchase from individuals (now or later). However, there are relatively few things that this can be done with (babysitting by the neighbor teenager, though I'm sure that there are some liberals who think this should be taxed) etc.



Nothing is perfect, but there are many things much more perfect than the current system.



Amazing how in one thread we can go from the absurdity of the media in it's coverage of this incident to gun control to taxes... we are a diverse bunch.
 
RShrek, it boils down to what I call the velocity of money. What I mean by that is that every time money legitimately changes hands, the government gets a piece of the action via taxes. The more exchanges, the more revenue for the government. An analogy would be a gambling casino. The house only makes a few percent on the action, but it's profits are huge. That is because of the amount of action/transactions taking place very rapidly. By increasing taxes or the cost of doing business, the velocity slows down as does the governments take.



Right now the tax structure of the Federal income tax rewards those that take from the GDP pot and punishes those that create it. What I mean by this we punish, via income tax, those that make income by producing goods and services. We do not penalize those that use the goods and services via purchases. The underground economy does not pay any income tax on their clandestine income.



A flat tax would make these people also contribute to the tax pot. There would have to be an in depth study as how to handle purchases that are made offshore, etc. But a taxes on offshore purchases would have to be dealt with.
 
Lets get back to reality people. Fair Tax will never happen. Too many jobs are at risk. IRS employees, Tax preparers, etc. The governmental powers that be won't let it happen.



If it helps you and me out, it won't happen.





Tom
 

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