Bill V
Well-Known Member
I'm betting if men could get pregnant then women would insist that they be allowed to be involved in any abortion decisions.
"Tolerant" NYC Liberals React to McCain Supporters
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I'm betting if men could get pregnant then women would insist that they be allowed to be involved in any abortion decisions.
Dreman
Well-Known Member
I'm just waiting...
Waiting for when it goes past abortion to other actions for convenience. Too many old people that can't take care of themselves? Let's just remove them from this earth. Why bother with trying to make some old person's last years tolerable until they pass on naturally? If no one wants them anymore, why are they still here?
And how about the mentally handicapped? They've already insisted on letting one die by forcibly withholding food and water. When will the next one go? Will we even know about it?
When no one stands up for those that can't stand up for themselves, then we truly have become a nation of selfish individuals, looking out for no one but ourselves I'm not talking about religion. You decide that for yourself. I'm talking about morals. Morals tell us what is right and what is wrong. If you get your morals from religion, or if you got them from your upbringing, you got them from somewhere.
I just do not understand why it is ok to support someone for the rest of their life that has killed a dozen people, but it is not ok to support someone for 9 months or 18 years when that person has not done anything bad to anybody except exist.
As for when then time of conception is, when an egg is fertilized by a sperm, that egg can be implanted in any fertile woman and nine months later there is a separate person. Under the right conditions (implanted in a fertile woman) they will all grow into a person. Under the right conditions (food, water, shelter) any human can sustain life. Take away the right conditions for either one and life will cease. There are no conditions for life with just an egg or just a sperm.
Waiting for when it goes past abortion to other actions for convenience. Too many old people that can't take care of themselves? Let's just remove them from this earth. Why bother with trying to make some old person's last years tolerable until they pass on naturally? If no one wants them anymore, why are they still here?
And how about the mentally handicapped? They've already insisted on letting one die by forcibly withholding food and water. When will the next one go? Will we even know about it?
When no one stands up for those that can't stand up for themselves, then we truly have become a nation of selfish individuals, looking out for no one but ourselves I'm not talking about religion. You decide that for yourself. I'm talking about morals. Morals tell us what is right and what is wrong. If you get your morals from religion, or if you got them from your upbringing, you got them from somewhere.
I just do not understand why it is ok to support someone for the rest of their life that has killed a dozen people, but it is not ok to support someone for 9 months or 18 years when that person has not done anything bad to anybody except exist.
As for when then time of conception is, when an egg is fertilized by a sperm, that egg can be implanted in any fertile woman and nine months later there is a separate person. Under the right conditions (implanted in a fertile woman) they will all grow into a person. Under the right conditions (food, water, shelter) any human can sustain life. Take away the right conditions for either one and life will cease. There are no conditions for life with just an egg or just a sperm.
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Dreman,
I generally don't believe in "slippery slope" arguments because they tend to lead to paralysis (meaning the fear of what might happen if you do X, Y or Z causes one to not do, or in this case to not allow, anything).
Dreman also said:
I guess you are trying to say that you don't understand the common liberal ideology that abortion is okay and capital punishment is wrong then maybe I can help.
I'll help you understand.
To those that feel that way, they don't think life begins at conception. Therefore, to them abortion is not taking a life.
However, they do believe that all life is precious and should be honored. That believe doesn't apply to the aborted for the reason stated above. They believe that our judicial system can sometimes be flawed and the innocent are sometimes found guilty. They believe that killing murders is not a deterent. The often feel that killing murders is about vengance, not punishment and feel we should be above such desires. For these reasons they don't support capital punishment.
Those are the reasons I have heard, and they are pretty easy to understand when presented in that light, I think.
That doesn't mean they are easy to agree with...just easy to understand.
TJR
I generally don't believe in "slippery slope" arguments because they tend to lead to paralysis (meaning the fear of what might happen if you do X, Y or Z causes one to not do, or in this case to not allow, anything).
Dreman also said:
I guess you are trying to say that you don't understand the common liberal ideology that abortion is okay and capital punishment is wrong then maybe I can help.
I'll help you understand.
To those that feel that way, they don't think life begins at conception. Therefore, to them abortion is not taking a life.
However, they do believe that all life is precious and should be honored. That believe doesn't apply to the aborted for the reason stated above. They believe that our judicial system can sometimes be flawed and the innocent are sometimes found guilty. They believe that killing murders is not a deterent. The often feel that killing murders is about vengance, not punishment and feel we should be above such desires. For these reasons they don't support capital punishment.
Those are the reasons I have heard, and they are pretty easy to understand when presented in that light, I think.
That doesn't mean they are easy to agree with...just easy to understand.
TJR
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Bill V
Well-Known Member
Huh? When did I say any of that??? I think you're quoting the wrong person....
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bill V,
Sorry, I fixed my post above. I meant to respond to Dreman. It looked like you said all that at first glance because your post before Dreman's ran into his (because Dreman posted his comment by removing the subject line which acts as a good visual seperator).
Sorry.
TJR
Sorry, I fixed my post above. I meant to respond to Dreman. It looked like you said all that at first glance because your post before Dreman's ran into his (because Dreman posted his comment by removing the subject line which acts as a good visual seperator).
Sorry.
TJR
Bill V
Well-Known Member
TJR, No problem. (Even though it still errantly says "Bill V also said:" part way through your message.) 
Although I am a bit surprised that you would actually think that comments like those would have actually come out of my mouth... :lol:
Although I am a bit surprised that you would actually think that comments like those would have actually come out of my mouth... :lol:
Les
Well-Known Member
Still shows up on mine also...:huh:
Dreman
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how the subject line was left off. I didn't intend to take it off!:huh:
I understand about not killing convicted criminals. I don't have any real problem with that. Incarceration isn't any fun, but it's not death. They can let you out if new evidence proves you are innocent. They can't bring you back from death, though!
But I do not understand how anyone could look upon a child, born or unborn, as non-life. I also don't understand how people can abuse children, or tell them hateful things (i.e. I wish you were never born) or use them to get back at someone else. They are clean slates, with no malice in them. They may have tendencies to do things that are mean, sometimes, but they don't do it out of meanness unless someone has taught them to.
What I'm saying is it's life. Ending an innocent human life is murder. Quit it!
I understand about not killing convicted criminals. I don't have any real problem with that. Incarceration isn't any fun, but it's not death. They can let you out if new evidence proves you are innocent. They can't bring you back from death, though!
But I do not understand how anyone could look upon a child, born or unborn, as non-life. I also don't understand how people can abuse children, or tell them hateful things (i.e. I wish you were never born) or use them to get back at someone else. They are clean slates, with no malice in them. They may have tendencies to do things that are mean, sometimes, but they don't do it out of meanness unless someone has taught them to.
What I'm saying is it's life. Ending an innocent human life is murder. Quit it!
If your faith is that you will go to heaven, abortions saves all those kids from possible aweful lives to a free ticket to heaven.
I do not agree with abortion. I think it is horrible. At the same time, I am not naieve enough to think if it is illegal, it will stop. People will do it anyways. Why not provide a place it can be done safely?
With education and leadership, abortion can be eliminated.
Just because it is legal does not mean it is right. Just because it is illegal does not mean it is wrong.
Take the first step. Boycott abortion clinics.
You have done your part. Feel better about yourself.
Tom
Les
Well-Known Member
Tom, I know what you are saying but it will never happen...
The the government that is for the peopl by the people do not want it that way.
See, keep faith and faith based moreals out of government.
Tom
Bill V
Well-Known Member
No one's saying it's "non-life". Clearly, it's living. But so are a chicken, wheat, your appendix, visuses, and sperm. And very few people cry when these "living" things are terminated, be it for human nourishment, health improvement, or natural process.
Whether they're "living" has nothing to do with it. It's the determination of what qualifies as an independent human life that is at the crux of this. And while in your mind the determination of what meets that criteria may be unequivocally clear to you, there is a large portion of the population to whom that is not the case. And even for those who are "unequivocally clear", in most cases that "clarity" is the result of a religious or philosophical belief, rather than any scientific or factual basis. (Some are willing to admit that, many aren't--but it doesn't change the fact that that's what is going on. In many cases, a so-called scientific basis is provided, but it is typically biased pseudo-science developed to support a pre-determined conclusion.)
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Michael Cacioppo
Well-Known Member
Caymen Here's what the founders wanted:
As I have stated before your religious beliefs may be different than mine, but so what. Laws are made so that society doesn't destroy itself and is allowed to go on peacefully. If abortion bothers you, well don't do it. On the other hand there is a limit to when an entity is part of this society and should be protected under it. The law should not be based on religious beliefs but on rational lines which protects our society as a whole.
There would be a lot fewer abortions if the laws were changed so that pregnant woman would have a legal option to divorce themselves from the legal responsibility once the child is born. There are many logical ways to greatly reduce abortion but sadly our politicians are either quoting the party line or too busy making money for themselves and their friends.
As I have stated before your religious beliefs may be different than mine, but so what. Laws are made so that society doesn't destroy itself and is allowed to go on peacefully. If abortion bothers you, well don't do it. On the other hand there is a limit to when an entity is part of this society and should be protected under it. The law should not be based on religious beliefs but on rational lines which protects our society as a whole.
There would be a lot fewer abortions if the laws were changed so that pregnant woman would have a legal option to divorce themselves from the legal responsibility once the child is born. There are many logical ways to greatly reduce abortion but sadly our politicians are either quoting the party line or too busy making money for themselves and their friends.
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Bill V
Well-Known Member
I don't know about any place else, but in Minnesota, such an option exists. A mother may drop off a newborn at a hospital and effectively abandon it, no questions asked. Not sure of the details about where it can occur, how old the child can be, etc. Was passed into law a few years ago, primarily in response to people finding babies (some alive, some dead) abandoned in public restrooms and similar places. I have no idea if it has had any impact on anyone's decision of whether to have an abortion or not.
LoriMaury Kimbrough
Active Member
Defining what constitues human life and when that begins has nothing to do with whether or not abortion should be legal or not, as far as I'm concerened. It is more about definging the point at which the government has a right to butt in to my personal decisions. If Roe v. Wade is ever overturned I feel like it will open the door for even more of our freedoms to be taken away. I'm not sure how many we actually have left anyway.
I recently took a class and had to do a "breif" on the Supreme Court's decision upholding Roe v. Wade. After reading the opions of the Justices and analyzing the decsion I began to see it as more than just legalizing abortion. It was a real eye-opener.
Since most opinions about abortion are based on religious beliefs, that is just another reason that governement has no business dictating laws about it. What I do or don't believe is exactly that, what I do and don't believe and that shouldn't be forced on others.
I recently took a class and had to do a "breif" on the Supreme Court's decision upholding Roe v. Wade. After reading the opions of the Justices and analyzing the decsion I began to see it as more than just legalizing abortion. It was a real eye-opener.
Since most opinions about abortion are based on religious beliefs, that is just another reason that governement has no business dictating laws about it. What I do or don't believe is exactly that, what I do and don't believe and that shouldn't be forced on others.
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Les
Well-Known Member
This also exists in Florida and is called the Safe Haven Law. Similar to what Bill V said, however, an infant can also be dropped off at a police or fire station, as well as the hospital.
JerryW Gilliland
Well-Known Member
The same law exists in OK by the same name and the same places of drop off.
It's a good law and gives people a way out of an awkward or impossible situation.
Definitely better than a dumpster!
It's a good law and gives people a way out of an awkward or impossible situation.
Definitely better than a dumpster!
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I'm glad that one didn't make the commandment list... :lol:
:lol:Those same founding father did not believe that Blacks were human and women were anything more than something to have sex with, raise your babies, and seen but not heard.
The abolishin of slavery itself would make our founding fathers roll in the grave.
I could not agree more. What is next? Is it removing "dirty" words out of the dictionaries? How about a book that says something negative about the government? That would be bad.
Give them an inch, and they will take a mile.
Tom
Dingo
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. I've tried to stay quiet, but alas, I cannot. Jerry's pic of the activists cracks me up.
<p style="font-size:50%">Of the four, the only one that's ever seen a vagina in person is the one to whom it's attached.</p>
<p style="font-size:50%">Of the four, the only one that's ever seen a vagina in person is the one to whom it's attached.</p>
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