so you thought it was only toyota.......

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Well put Eddie. Believe it or not, I do like you and I think you are really a kind person.



As for Gary, well. Admit it or not, this is a Ford Explorer Sport Trac website. If you think 100% of the people here think you are such a wise person because you own Toyota's, you are wrong. You beat on Fords and expect the MYST.com community to let it happen is simply foolish.



Many of us members here have personal ties with Ford. My father retired after putting in 43 1/2 years in. He was a hard working employee that dedicated his life to the company he worked for. He was a union man that cared about the company. He did not screw off on the job. He did not want 200% raises every year.



Yes, my father did see some of the negatives about unions, but seen more positives than negatives. He was NEVER a die hard union man. I was not brainwashed to work union or not at all.



At one time, my Dad did not drive Fords. He had one Datsun pick-up and also owned 4 VW Beatles. One he purchased in the USA, picked it up in Wolfsberg, West Germany, drove it 4,000 miles around Europe, then shipped it back home. When did he quit buying imports? He realized he was biting the hand that feeds him and watched industry slowly leaving this country.



This is a Ford website.



Toyota sucks.

Honda sucks.

Mitsubishi sucks.

Mercedes-Benz sucks.

BWM sucks.

Hyundai sucks.

Kia sucks.



You get it?



Ford could be on the bottom of the list, they are still the best. Ford has been my life. Ford has been my fathers life. Ford put a roof over my head, food in my belly, clothes on my pack. Ford and the UAW helped pay for my sisters college education.



My father has almost given his life to Ford, twice. Once he was hit in the wrist with a piece of steel severing the two tendons for his right hand, pinky and ring fingers. It nicked the veins in his wrist. He has never regained full use of those fingers. Another time he was crushed in between two vehicles. He has never funny recovered by that either. My fathers body is beat-up.



He never got rich. He was not an overpaid union man. He never blasted Ford about it either. He had to do what he had to do for his employer.



Ford is # 1 and will always remain that way.





Tom
 
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Caymen, regarding your last post which simply put seems to say there is no room here for Ford detractors, I have to ask you to consider this...



The way I see it is that the issue is polarity and polar thinking. There are those here that tend towards the pole that Ford can and never does any wrong, the sun rises on sets Ford blue, and all the competitors have little or no merit. You can disagree with this characterization, but it is true of many here...I will not name names.



Then, there is the other pole, and there is where you find people that think just the opposite; that Ford sucks, all the time, and is the worst of the automakers. Frankly, I don't see anyone on this website at that extreme end.



People at both poles have their biased thinking, both poles have their zealots, and both poles have people that will likely never see much merit with those at the other end.



Polarity and polar thinking, IMHO, is a major problem on this website, and withinin this country: Black, white; liberal, conservative; Ford lover, Ford hater; pessimist, optimist; pro-life, pro-choice.... You get the picture.



So, I ask you (everyone); please look at yourself. Are you one of those people at the poles? If so, I submit you are part of the problem, in this country and on this board.



A person truly confident in Ford's abilities and Ford as an automaker would not be threatened by a detractor. Such a person would accept constructive criticism, as it is intended, constructively, and encourage Ford to do the same in order to make a better product. I see little of that going on from many of the Ford apologists here.



Yes, Gary and Caymen will probably never see eye-to-eye, but I've heard Gary be open about the qualities of Ford, and complimentary of them...enough so much so he even bought several STs himself. I don't consider Gary to be at the far pole of the Ford haters. I put him more in the area of a "Ford skeptic, or Ford Critic".



Are we saying we have no place on this website for Ford critics?



If so, then pass the kool aid, all join hands, sing the Ford Mo Co version of Koombyah ("Koombyah my Ford, Koombyah...") and live in a cocoon of assumed Ford superiority...but be careful, it was that attitude that almost KILLED DETROIT!



TJR
 
TJR,



I will not argue with you about this. I am the way I am and will not change for anyone, including you.



Ford rules and everyone else sucks.





Tom
 
Caymen,



Respectfully might I submit that no one is asking you to change.



I think we have hit on your fundamental issue.



You think by giving some credit where credit might be due to others or being critical of Ford that somehow "changes" you, or has you being "disloyal" to Ford and family.



It doesn't have to be that way.



I'm not asking you to change, just to be open minded. Be objective. Take off the blue glasses now and then, even if for a moment just to see things a little differently.



If Ford is as great as you say then there should be no fear or reluctance in discussing its demerits and the merits of others. Anyone that thinks that Ford has no demerits and others have no merits is clearly not objective.



TJR
 
Bud,



It might be funny, and from your POV well said, but it's a childish attitude.





Consider this...



There was a time when I felt similarly about the things that I was a fan of (music groups, sports teams, sports stars, even cars). I think I was 13 at the time, maybe younger.



But then, somewhere along the way, I matured and recognized that that everything else doesn't have to SUCK, nor do I have to talk trash about those other things to be able to feel good about my preferences.



Words like HATE and SUCK when speaking of competitors, or other things you don't like are pretty childish, IMHO. It's as if some folks here haven't grown up yet.





Further consider the following...



It is actually possible for Ford AND other automakers to develop QUALITY products that are appealing. The ability to produce quality, appealing autos is not a scarcity. There is enough to go around. Those that subscribe to the scarcity principle have attitudes like: "XYZ is great, everyone else SUCKS!", and "For XYZ to do well everyone else has to FAIL!" Do some research. Look into the "scarcity principle" as a belief. See how it is considered naive and destructive by many.



TJR
 
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I'm not asking you to change, just to be open minded. Be objective. Take off the blue glasses now and then, even if for a moment just to see things a little differently.



I do not wear "blue glasses". I have driven just about every make and model out there. IMO, the others are not all that.



My brother had a Toyota Camry. Not a bad vehicle, but not a good vehicle either. It was a Jap model. When things broke, they were VERY expensive to fix.



My niece had a Toyota Tacoma. If those interiors are quality, then I will take a non quality interior. Cheap industrial feeling plastic is garbage and oh the rattles. She totaled it hitting a street sign. Yes, that is right, a street sign.



My cousin had a Nissan Maxima. He loved it. Thought it was the greatest vehicle ever. He made fun of me because his "trouble free" 99,000 miles. Best quote ever, "See, Tommy, this Nissan can go well past 100,000 miles. You car won't make it that long since it is a Ford." My reply, "I am at 135,000 miles, I wonder how much longer it is going to last?"



His engine did not make it to 100,000 miles. He now has a Lincoln Mark VII he got from a cousin that raced it, then his little brother that abused it, and with over 220,000 miles on it, he is still driving it. Original engine, original tranny. He says the Jap vehicles are crap.



I have seen more GM vehicles with over 200,000 miles than I have seen Toyota, Honda, and Nissan combined.



I give credit where credit is due. Another cousin had a VW Jetta TDI. Biggest POS I ever seen. $1,500.00 for a replacement MAF sensor? Are you kidding me? Yup, he replaced it twice. Sold it and got a Passat or something TDI. Not sure if he is having issues with that one or not. He may not be telling me because I would laugh at him about it.





Tom
 
This is a sport trac site first, and a family site second. While I can no longer consider myself a sport trac owner, I would have hoped I could still be family. A few posts here lately that have led me to believe otherwise. There used to be a time where people who sold or traded in their STs were welcomed to stay within the family on this site. Heck, I'm guilty of offering that through the years. But there have been a few threads lately that have been a bit tough to tolerate. I have found myself staying away from this site since the whole Toyota nonsense simply because I knew it would be fuel for a inevitable fire. As it stands, I find myself not wanting to contribute to this thread, or really this whole site for a little while until everyone gets the hair our of their rear ends.



I agree that the way this particular thread was started was a bit childish, but then again, the previous post against toyota became a chest thumping, piss on anyone who drives a Toyota. Ford has their skeletons too (Firestone tires, exploding crown vics, spontaneous combustion due to cruise control switch). This will all pass in due time. I keep telling myself this... Until then, I'm going to just stay away from these threads as there really is no reason for them other than to chest-thump, and I'm not interested in the show.
 
"ford rules and everyone else sucks" quote by tom. that is tom not wanting to hear that ford has issues as well.

I posted here my anger & frustration with toyota. are they perfect? i never said that.

based on my fleet experience do they make a better quality vehicle, imo yes.

as tjr stated do i hate ford, NO. i was not happy with the problems (tranny) with my last trac.

i also did not get another trac as i needed a different type of vehicle. i believe ford makes good vehicles, and are getting better, but still trail in the overall quality and reliability.

so tom, that can't be said here ?

i really don't care that your father worked at ford. does that make ford the best vehicle because he worked there?

again, i came out and mentioned my frustration with toy. tom, can you do the same about ford if you experience a problem ????
 
tom,



until you agree that i am right, i am not going to buy you a beer when i go to CLE to visit the R&R hall of fame.

you have to buy ME a beer. then i will make sure you get drunk enough to wear my toyota hat :banana:







 
Wow Caymen...I just joined to find out some info on my ST. But, after reading some of your posts, I don't believe I'll be inquiring of you.



How old are you? My guess would be under 16 by your obvious immature posts. Why are you so angry at such a young age? That attitude won't get you anywhere as an adult!
 
Wow Caymen...I just joined to find out some info on my ST. But, after reading some of your posts, I don't believe I'll be inquiring of you.



How old are you? My guess would be under 16 by your obvious immature posts. Why are you so angry at such a young age? That attitude won't get you anywhere as an adult!



:smile0007:



BaltoST, welcome to the site...
 
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