SICKO: Movie

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I have a hard time belieiving that XST really believes he has not paid a cent for healthcare.



Healthcare Expenditure

The Canadian healthcare system is funded primarily by tax dollars. The federal government makes cash transfers to the provinces, but the provinces may levy their own taxes to help defray the costs. Alberta and British Columbia require a health insurance premium, and other provinces have instituted employer payroll taxes (Klatt, 2002). In 2004, $91.1 billion or 70% of total health spending was by the public sector. Private sector spending totalled $39.2 billion in 2004, or 30%. In 2004, total health expenditure was estimated at $130 billion, about 10 per cent of GDP (Ibid). This is estimated to be around $4,078 per person. Latest OECD figures on spending per person is for year 2002, when it reports Canada spent $2,931 per person using purchasing power parities (PPPs), up from $2587 as used in report. This was the third highest, below the USA and Switzerland.

Federal government’s contributions have decreased significantly in 1998; federal payments make up only slightly more than 20 percent of provincial medical care costs (Kraker, 2002). Provincial government share of total health spending was up to 63.8 per cent in 2002. Other public sector expenditure (which includes federal spending, social security funds and municipal government) totals 5.9 per cent. Private sector spending accounted for 30.3 per cent of total spending in 2002. Private expenditure, which goes towards the cost of services (such as clinics for eye laser surgery or in-vitro fertilisation) not covered by provincial health insurance programmes, is divided between out-of-pocket expenditure and insurance.



Michael Moore is simply trying to make money and stir up controversy. Why, XST, do you think he releeases hos "movies" outside the country first??
 
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As some of you know my wife has Cardiovascular disease with a blood clot in her leg. She needs to have her glood thinning medication perscription renewed and the current doctor we have is not responding to the request. The HMO's have got to stop controlling who gets taken care of, and who doesn't. Yes, we are going to find a new doctor who will take care of us. So, in my opinion, in general, the movie SICKO is not too far off the mark. As long a Big Pharma makes a profit our so called health care in the U.S. is a joke. When one of the leading causes of death in this country is conflicting perscription drugs, Houston we have a problem.



Just another reason why my wife and I have chosen "Concierge" Health Care. Basically, we have a doctor where we can see him/her ASAP, the same day if need be. I can also call and have them send a prescription to any pharmacy and have meds in less than an hour. It's more expensive than POS HMO plan but well worth it. I can handle the extra paperwork with our insurance company for better health care. Because, it's obvious the health care system is broken.
 
XST, Michael Moore is not trying to help this country, he only wants to be the center of attention and make money...
 
You have to be pretty high on your horse to openly state that your life is more important than someone else's (or their kids') simply because you have a good job that pays your health insurance premium.



Nice view from up here. How do people get good jobs? Hard work and education, both of which are free in this country. I'm sorry, if I bust my butt for years going through school and getting a good job, then yes, my life monetarily and economically is worth more than someone with no insurance and a low paying job. I pay more taxes, I spend more money, I'm more important to the economy being alive and working, than someone who's picking up a welfare check.



Last time I needed the ER was a few years ago. Playing baseball (I'm a catcher) some kid from a rival town came sliding in with his cleats up, broke my jaw and I needed about 40 stitches (metal cleats) along my jawline from where he sliced my face open. I got to the ER (it was about 11:30 at night) signed in, they looked at me, and took me to a bed. Got my x-rays, got stitched up, missed school the next day, went home the next afternoon. All it cost me was $20 for first rate care at UAB. Earlier this year I tore my hamstring playing football, after seeing the doc down here at school, she referred me to a clinic. I went home and saw MY doc at HealthSouth (you know, the place where important athletes from around the world come to have their work done because they are the BEST) and all that cost was $20 for seeing the best sports injury doctors in the world. Yeah, if this is the flawed system, I don't mind it.





Off topic BTW, I was in Canada last week, Vancouver is a beautiful city.
 
Of course we pay for the health care here. It doesnt just come from no where. Its an upfront cost, taxes. But no matter what I need, when I need it I dont have to get a loan, sell my house, sell one of my cars or whatever it takes to pay for basic medical treatment.



Yes we pay a premium here in Alberta. I pay $260.00 every 3 months for my family of 4. Before I was in a better earning job I paid $0.00 of those premiums and the government paid for it for me. Either way I got the same medical service no matter where I went or what I needed.



Let's do some math. In 50 years of my Adult life there are 200 payments of $260.00 for my family of 4. Thats $13,000 for each person, for my entire lifetime. From what I see in the US, that $13,000.00 wouldn't even save the tip of my wedding finger. But for that price I can go at any time, to any hospital and get any tests, exams, or surgery completed with no cost out of my pocket, for 50 years.



I can see why thats such a terrible thing :\ Get real.



Im sure if you asked any sick people you know if they'd rather save the $260.00 every 3 months (if they make enough money, $0.00 if they dont) and a little less taxes throughout thier life, or pay a little more tax, and a $65.00/month premium for unlimited medical care, they would choose the Canadian way. I guarantee it.



I beleive Michael Moore is trying to help you, and the reason he opens movies outside of the US (If he does) is because the US people can't get thier heads out of thier asses long enuff to realize that thier own government is F!@#$ING them! And the worse part of it is, you all chose for it to be that way.



 
I has to come to that. For every other emergency service we're already at that point. Can you imagine what would happen if we had fire departments that would only rescue people who had paid for "fire insurance" ahead of time? This is no different... no decent, moral person could in good conscience right off someone's life because they can't afford to pay to be saved. I don't care what God you pray to, there isn't one that would be OK with letting immigrants or poor people burn, bleed to death or otherwise expire from neglect simply because they couldn't pay for rescuers.



Volunteer fire departments around here will not try to save property for owners who failed to pay their annual fire dues. They will saved lives, but not help save property. They will also come out and monitor the blaze to make sure it doesn't spread to a neighbor's (paid member's) property. I have no problem with this-- dumbasses should have paid their annual fire protection dues.



Why should illegal aliens receive any services from our government? They are ILLEGAL. The only services they should recieve are those in jail as they are being transported out of our country at the nearest border.



I have no problem with immigrants--I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigrants. There is a legal process to follow for immigration. Those who go outside the law should be treated exactly as they are: invaders.



Canada can keep their health plan. They can also keep their high taxes and increase government intrusion into citizens' lives. We in the US are able to take care of ourselves. The ones who will not take care of theirselves can go AWOL to Canada.
 
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Jeff every situation is different. My wife has had a deviated syptom all her life (can't breathe through her nose). Had it fixed. Insurance company only paid 400.00 of a 5K procedure because they say it's cosmetic. That is total Freakin BS!



On the flip side she had back surgery and the surgeon for Seattle Seahawks did the procedure. Out-of pocket was 200.00. Surgery itself was 18K by one of the best in the business.
 
How do people get good jobs? Hard work and education, both of which are free in this country. I'm sorry, if I bust my butt for years going through school and getting a good job, then yes, my life monetarily and economically is worth more than someone with no insurance and a low paying job.



With no undo disrespect, if you're a middle-class white boy born in this country, you don't know what "busting your butt" is. Busting your butt is not sitting in an airconditioned room at your computer, deciding what accessory is next for your $24,000 truck. Busting your butt is losing half your family swimming to the USA for freedom, then spending the rest of your life working 80+ hours a week breathing lawn mower fumes in 100 degree weather, standing in a steam and bleach filled room stripping the skin off a bull's dick every 30 seconds trying not to cut yourself, or getting on your hands and knees wiping pubes off public toilets to provide for what's left of your family. Some people really do work their butts off, literally, and the fact that you're hear posting about your truck assures us all that you are not one of them.



I'm not saying you need to step down from the silver spoon club, just acknowledge how privileged you are to be here and stop acting like it was all your hard toil that got you here. How well are you off financially has remarkably little to do with how hard you've worked, and you'll eventually see this, perhaps not today though.



-Adam (who also still has a butt, but is more appreciative of it)
 
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No silver spoon here. My grandparents on both sides were immigrants, with one of them having the highest education as 8th grade. They worked hard and lived modestly, but enjoyed the OPPORTUNITY that this great country provides. Sure, I had some breaks and was born into a family with good parents who loved me and tried their best to help me. However, I had to work for my education and my present situation.



No one in this world is owed a silver spoon, but our country was founded on the principles that everyone should have EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, that through hard work, education, and also sheer dumb luck, they have an equal chance at success and happiness as everyone else. Is the system perfect-- no. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Good things also happen to bad people all the time too. However, no one ever said "Come to the US and get your free health care, free insurance, free cell phone, free internet, free Cadillac, free Air Jordans, free, I-PODs, free X-box", etc. The US is all about EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, not EQUAL RESULTS.



Talking about silver spoons is Pot-Kettle-Black. Just the fact that you have a computer and a SportTrac means you are already richer and in better shape than 99% of the rest of the people in this world.



 
Adam,

it appears you need to get off your horse too.



I am a "white boy" as you say and a LEGAL immigrant. You see, your example above is of ILLEGAL immigrants. Those of us that do it legally, get the green card, get the citizenship, pay the taxes, are given those same "white boy" benefits. It's the sick birds that toil so hard.



Don't get me wrong, I ain't saying they don't work hard, just that if they want the same bennies and opportunities they should be legal.



I use the term "given" loosely. Just a figure of speech as we are not in Canada, so nothing, apparently, according to XST, is given.
 
BillV: Your link to "Straw Man PROPOSAL" is referring to a business strategy, an entirely different animal from the rhetorical technique known as a straw man ARGUMENT. The Wikipedia link that is relevant is this one (link below). And my use was not flawed, your example of calling 911 for batteries was a textbook straw man argument.
 
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Jeff C says:
Nice view from up here. How do people get good jobs? Hard work and education, both of which are free in this country.



Education is free in this country? I don't think so. Like so much else in this country the value and quality of what you get is based on what you pay.



Like I said, the I think the reality is that most that claim to have worked hard and made good choices and are in the upper-middle class because of it really have won the "born to good parents" lottery. If you were like me, you were born to parents that wanted better for you then they had, and they were born to parents that thought the same.



TJR
 
That's because without treating the person, they often can not discern what the illness is. To the average mom, a harmless cold can have the same symptoms as a life-threatening meningitis. Parents make the effort to go to the E.R. when they are genuinely concerned about the wellbeing of people in their family, not for every scraped knee, hangnail, etc. But that's sort of beside the point. I'm challenging the poster's complaint that his serious need for emergency medical care got delayed for hours because of a horde of kids with colds. I'm sorry, but I suspect that is an exaggeration or misjudging of the situation on his part.





For some one who is everywhere at everytime and knows what everyone is thinking about you sure are a bit confrontational
 
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XST, Michael Moore is not trying to help this country, he only wants to be the center of attention and make money...



I hate Michael Moore. I think he is a fat ignorant slob. He is also a Patriot. He stands up for what he thinks is right and is not afraid to do so.



That is what being an American is all about.





Tom
 
Adam S., I stand partially corrected. I see now that there is more than one definition of "strawman". (I find it interesting that two concepts which have such nearly opposite meanings can have the same name.)



However, my argument is still only a strawman by the definition I provided, not by yours. Coming to an ER to get vaccination shots is very much akin to calling the fire department to change your smoke detector batteries. In both cases, they're using emergency services to provide regular non-emergency maintenance. Neither should be allowed, but unfortunately, one is used far too frequently, with zero consequences to the perpetrators.



If you are looking for an example of a strawman argument (using your definition), I suggest you look no forward than your claim that Dingo's comments about ERs had anything to do with monetary wealth, social class, or race. That's completely, utterly ridiculous.



(And yes, Dingo, I agree, I've heard of ERs being used for vaccinations as well. It's not even a legal immigrant/illegal immigrant/native resident issue. I know that around here, the day or two before school starts, ERs and urgent cares are full of parents getting their kids vaccinated so they can go to school, just because they were too lazy to make an appointment a month earlier.)
 
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