OT: Wassup with the Muslim Cartoons?

[Thomas Rogers]

>> It is just as insulting to say niggers, and then follow up and say, oh I just meant the black people who I don't like.



I have heard blacks themselves say that they hate niggers and am glad they aren't one.



But, blacks can be racist too, I guess.

 

[Tabjo]

TomT,



You can choose to hate whoever you want to, that is your God-given right. However, if I were to tell you that I was an arab, would you feel just as comfortable flinging the word raghead around?



As far as my reference to Q being Nazi-esque, read this post again:

THe ragheads hate anyone who's white. Period. This is nothing against the US anywyas, it's against the EU...this time. I knew it would only be a matter of time b4 Americans were attacked on an issue not even related to them, because they love the fact that now they have a free ticket to kill whitey, for the time being, and not be called terrorists. All they need is an excuse or cover and before you know it, Anglos die, and they'r ehappy. They're nothing but savage barbarians.



Q out.

I can actually hear the chants of "White Power" after that statement. By the way, more non-white people are killed every year by terrorism.

 

[Tabjo]

But, blacks can be racist too, I guess.

Everyone is inherently racist, it is how you overcome those racists feelings that is a measure of your humanity.

 

[Johnny O]

When a museum has on display of a jar of urine with a cross in it or a (lousy) painting of the Virgin Mary with cow dung on it, I don't feel a need to burn down the museum or kill the artist. The preacher at my church doesn't tell me to kill the people in the other church down the street.

Does that make me less religious or just more tolerant?

Or does it simply mean I'm a better person?

Everyone is inherently racist, it is how you overcome those racists feelings that is a measure of your humanity.

I respecfully disagree, I think racism is a learned behavior.

 

[Tabjo]

It makes you more civilized.

 

[Tabjo]

I respecfully disagree, I think racism is a learned behavior.

I agree that racism can be taught, but in my opinion racism is unlearned because of civilization and values taught to you by your parents. We are taught to treat people equally, we are taught to ignore physical differences and how to act with one another in a civilized society.



Racism at its core is the mistrust of others based on physical attribute. It is human nature to try to gravitate towards others with like attributes, it is how we have survived throughout our history. Back in caveman days, tribes would attack other tribes. The only people you could trust were those who looked like you, because more than likely you were related to them in your tribe.



I'd like to think that over time we have gradually minimized those tendencies because we have become more civilized.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Some are taught to hate and be racist...but those haven't learned anything useful.

 

[Tabjo]

TJR...Sorry, didn't really mean to hijack your thread. More than anything recent negative posts have just really annoyed me. I'm leaving this thread and getting back to work.



I do enjoy seeing other people's views on these matters as well, as long as we try to treat all contributors with respect.

 

[TomT]

I'd like to think that over time we have gradually minimized those tendencies because we have become more civilized.

But that's the problem. These countries have not become more civilized. And yes, they are taught to hate by their religion at a very early age. I recently had a girl from Pakistan ride with us. After listening to her, I no longer blame the women over there but she would be the first to tell you every arab male over there is f*cked up. I felt sorry for her after listening to the abuse she said she constantly received over there. She would rather kill herself then go back over there. She says she is trying very hard to change her hatred towards jews. She says the hatred towards jews is taught at a very young age in all the muslim countries.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Q, maybe Tabjo is trying to describe the "Birds of a Feather" phenomena found in nature in which certain birds tend to stick with their own, and seem to be more comfortable with their own.



Yes, people are taught hate and racism, and the most vile aspects of racism require that they be drilled into people. However, there is an element of what Tabjo is saying with regards to people "gravitating" to their own and finding some level of comfort and trust there. Does that make them racist and filled with hate to the degree we are describing on some examples in this thread, no, not really, IMHO.



Understanding what goes on in your brains and that some of what goes on is nature and some is nurture seems like one step towards enlightenment.



TJR

 

[Johnny O]

My little sister was about 5 years old. One day she said asked if her new friend from kindergarten could come over after school. "Her name is Anita, she looks just like me." Mom says okay.

My sister is as white and blonde as you can get, Anita turns out to be about as black as one could be. But they both had hair with long pigtails, so in their 5 year old minds they looked the same. Because all they saw were the pigtails. That's a true story.

 

[Bill V]

TJR--

Yeah, but the difference is that our Bible doesn't preach about it. The Koran does talk about Mohammed's girl wife.

Read through the Old Testament a while, and view all the incest, adultery, and worse that are discussed there as commonplace occurance. If you were to judge the people described there by western moral standards, nearly all the prophets of the Judeo-Christian beliefs would be burning in hell--but instead, we exhalt them as spiritual leaders.



I'm not saying it's wrong--it's the way things were done back then. But I am saying that you can't judge the Koran or any other such religious doctrine by a standard that you aren't willing to judge the Bible by.

 

[Bill V]

Q, I hear where you're coming from, and I agree that Tabjo went overboard in his response. But I do know that a lot of people--in fact, I suspect it's most people--understand the term 'raghead' not to mean 'Muslim terrorist', but instead to be a derogatory slur of all people of Middle Eastern descent, regardless of their religious or political beliefs. By using that term the way you initially did, you do appear to be judging these people more on the color of their skin than on their actions--regardless of whether that's your intent or not. Your clarification does help--but I can easily see how before that clarification, many people would judge that as a blatantly racist comment; and even after the clarification, many would believe you're just trying to CYA.

 

[Dale Carter]

JohnnyO said

When a museum has on display of a jar of urine with a cross in it or a (lousy) painting of the Virgin Mary with cow dung on it, I don't feel a need to burn down the museum or kill the artist. The preacher at my church doesn't tell me to kill the people in the other church down the street.

Does that make me less religious or just more tolerant?

Or does it simply mean I'm a better person?

Tabjo replied "It makes you more civilized".



Tabjo is now a racist because he has said that JohnnyO is more civilized than Islamofacists and we all know that all culutres are equal. "More civlized" than the "savage barbarians" referred to by Q? Different degrees of the same thought. Hmm, interesting. We all know that "more civilized" is code for "savage barbarians".



Bwahahahahahahaha

 

[Dale Carter]

BTW - regarding the use of words like nigger, raghead, white trash, etc etc. They are very effective when describing a member of a particular race who partakes of uncivilized, boorish or criminal activity. Shorthand because they carry tremendous meaning. When it is wrong or defamatory, is when t is used to demean someone who does not engage in the behaviour which would warrant such a description. I very rarely use the terms, but I understand that they have their place in the lexicon.



Anytime I hear someone use the phrase "N-word" I know that they are a spineless jellyfish who has surrendered themselves to the fear of a WORD! I am, however, offended when the word is used inappropriately. Just as I am by the "retard" messages which I have seen on this site or when someone unfairly demeans another, usually weaker, person.

 

[Tabjo]

Tabjo replied "It makes you more civilized".



Tabjo is now a racist because he has said that JohnnyO is more civilized than Islamofacists and we all know that all culutres are equal. "More civlized" than the "savage barbarians" referred to by Q? Different degrees of the same thought. Hmm, interesting. We all know that "more civilized" is code for "savage barbarians".



Bwahahahahahahaha

You got me there Dale....hold on one second while I straighten my sheets. Does my hood look straight?

 

[TomT]

I understand what your trying to say Tabjo. We should not fight hate with hate but these are not normal people and we have tried everything else. As was pointed out above, our country has made many mistakes over there but we have also given billions of dollars in humanitarian aid to these countries, yet they still hate us with a passion. Even the Kuwait people hate us. They put up with us because they need us but I have a friend that just got back after working over there for 2 years and he would be the first to tell you these people resent us because all of them are taught that we are the personification of evil. How do you fight that type of behavior? Ignore it? 9/11 taught us that we cannot just sit back and ignore what is going on over there.

 

[Alan Peters]

I'm by no means Muslim, but did study the religion. The most I learned was Islam is a religion of violence.



I once saw a cartoon with people urinating on the Jesus. Not much outrage on that! Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with them. Their just that - cartoons.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Predjudice is a learned behavior, and it is not limited to humans. We had a poodle that hated black people. After observing her for a few years, I figured out why.



We had black garbage men in our neighborhood and every week they would invade her territory (the yard) and take all the food (the garbage cans). She would go insane trying to get outside to protect those cans. Her reaction was exactly the same whenever a black person approached our car or anyone in the family. She only did this to black people. All other races were fine in her tiny mind.



The moral? Try to be smarter than our dog, and judge individuals by THEIR actions, not the actions of OTHERS who may look like them.

 

[Tabjo]

TomT,



The middle east is f'd up beyond any comprehension. It is a cycle of hate, very much similar to situations in Ireland, Africa, the Balkans...all bred by ethnic racism, religous differences, revenge, land feud, etc. I don't have any answers as to how we can 'fix' it. I don't think we can.



And I agree that hate towards the west is taught and encouraged by extremists. There are however moderates over there trying the best they can to bring western ideals to their society. Is it fair to lump them in with all the extremists and condemn the entire religion/society?



I never said that we should ignore crazy behavior. If we are attacked or threatened, I wholeheartedly endorse controlled violence on our enemies as a just response. What would be your solution? Turn the entire region into glass?