OT: Was 9/11 Really That Bad?

[Johnny O]

Werd.

Also, if anybody ever tries to hijack a flight I'm on, they'll be looking for a sky marshal to protect them from me. And I wouldn't feel bad about it.

 

[Bill V]

TomT,

all countries that have muslim extremist need to be nuked.

Why just Muslim extremists? Why not extremists of all kinds?



Oh, that's right--it's because then we'd have to nuke ourselves as well. Does Oklahoma City ring a bell to anyone?



And then we'd have to nuke ourselves a second time, as anyone who would resort to nuclear attacks against an entire country just because the majority of people in that country are a certain religion, and a smaller number of those people are extremist, would have to be classified as extremist themselves...



And even if you want to limit yourself to countries with Muslim extremists--we'd still need to nuke ourselves. Those 9/11 planes didn't take off from the Middle East--the terrorists were in America and had been for quite some time. And more likely continue to be here.

 

[TomT]

OK city was an isolated incident by one or two nutballs. Not saying we don't have our own share of nuts but it's muslims that are the real threat. Don't believe it? Here's a test for you.

In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by

a. Superman

b. Jay Leno

c. Harry Potter

d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40



1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by

a. Olga Corbett

b. Sitting Bull

c. Arnold Schwarzenegger

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:

a. Lost Norwegians

b. Elvis

c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



3.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:

a. John Dillinger

b. The King of Sweden

c. The Boy Scouts

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

a. A pizza delivery boy

b. Pee Wee Herman

c. Geraldo Rivera

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:

a. The Smurfs

b. Davy Jones

c. The Little Mermaid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



6.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:

a. Captain Kidd

b. Charles Lindberg

c. Mother Teresa

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



7.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

a. Scooby Doo

b. The Tooth Fairy

c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

a. Richard Simmons

b. Grandma Moses

c. Michael Jordan

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



9.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers

b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems

c. The World Wrestling Federation

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd

b. The Supreme Court of Florida

c. Mr. Bean

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



11.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

a. Enron

b. The Lutheran Church

c. The NFL

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

a. Bonnie and Clyde

b. Captain Kangaroo

c. Billy Graham

d. Muslim male extremist s mostly between the ages of 17 and 40





13. 2004 - Spain Railway bombings.

Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



14. 2005 London Railway bombings

Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

[Bill V]

TomT--



In that quiz, the answer you clearly are looking for is always "Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40".



But if that's the case, why in your posts are you focusing on the "Muslim" part of it???



Just as large a part of that description is the "male". So how about we nuke every country that has male citizens?



Or how about the "between the ages of 17 and 40"? Man, they're nothing but trouble--nuke every country that has them!!!



Concentrating on those parts of the stereotype is just as ludicrous as focusing on the "Muslim" part. Let's keep the fight against terrorism where it belongs--not on Muslims, or on males, or on youth--but on extremists, regardless of their other characteristics.

 

[Adam Smith 2]

I only hate those that hate me and that wish me harm.

So maybe I should hate you for hating the people who hate you for hating them because they hate your for hating them. That's kind of circular, no? I think it would be more accurate to say something like "I only hate those who hate my country's foreign policies in the middle east and wish to do indescriminate terror in the U.S. as revenge for what they perceive as unjust". I think that would be fair. You should know which policies they object too also, in case you're challenged on that, so that you don't simply come off sounding like someone who simply hates muslims because of their "strange" customs, turbans or whatever.. you know, like that crazy guy who went around shooting at Sikhs after 9/11, just because they also wore turbans.

If you came onto my property and tried to harm me or my family then you could expect retaliation. Simple as that.

I agree with that, BUT.. this is a straw man in the making. Your bombing proposal is analagous to "If you came onto my town and tried to harm me or my neighbors, then everyone in your town could expect retaliation. Simple as that." That is the real analogy, and it doesn't sound so justifable now, does it?

 

[TomT]

Now you guys are just making up crap. I don't hate all muslims. Even work with a few muslims originally from the mid-east who I like very much, but even they will tell you that their home countries are a lost cause. That's why they are here and I don't know any that wish to return. As I stated in a previous post, if we could just weed out the bad muslims, then that would be great but I think we have learned in Iraq that's impossible without loosing a whole bunch of American lives. That's what I'm trying to avoid. No American life is worth loosing for the cause. Got a better idea? I'm listening.

 

[Johnny O]

It is ridiculous to say that all Muslims are terrorists or all Muslims are extremists. However almost every terrorist attack in the world since 1972 (and there were earlier hijackings) has been perpetrated by Muslim men between the ages of 17 and 40. This is not arguable.(Yeah, yeah, I know about the IRA but they keep it in their own back yard and leave me out of it.) See, but every time someone says "but what about ____?" then you're falling into the Liberal trap of moral relativism, i.e. an inability to say or believe that one person or religion or nation or whatever is better or worse than another. I don't have that problem, I can draw a line between good and evil and there is nothing wrong with self-defense.

There are some people that you just can't be nice to and reason with, you have to smack them down. Radical Islam is a primitive religion for primitive people. And their religion gets in the way of progress, so instead of adapting, their solution is to kill everyone who is different. Last I heard, that's what a racist really is....someone who dislikes and wants to kill people who are different. I don't. Their religion has nothing to do with my feelings, I just want to eliminate people before they eliminate me. I'm equal-opportunity that way.

If we'd nuke or at least fire-bomb some places over there, their reaction wouldn't be to attack us, it'd be "Oooh shoot, they're serious now" and they'd leave us alone for another 100 years. They can't hate us any more than they do.

Believe me, I'd be perfectly happy to leave them alone it they'd leave us alone.

Curiously, the Liberals are supposedly all about womens' rights, gay rights, and separate church and state. Yet no philosophy or lifestyle is more hostile to those things than radical Islam and the Leftys insist on defending it. The only explaination I can think of is that moral relativism and no war under any circumstance trumps everything else, including self-preservation.



93 octane.

John out.

 

[Adam Smith 2]

Believe me, I'd be perfectly happy to leave them alone it they'd leave us alone.

That is exactly what pretty much every statement from Al Qaeda summarizes to! They are the ones who want to be left alone. They don't want the U.S. army occupying and trying to control the middle east and they sure as hell didn't want a war based on false pretense of WMD so that Halliburton could run a nice fat oil pipeline through their turf and suck it dry.



You need to seriously reconsider who is not leaving who alone. I don't see a bunch of Iraqi's bombing Texas daily and occupying it with troops while they export all of its oil.

 

[Dre L]

It's funny to read some of your thoughts. Makes me root for al-qaeda.

 

[Adam Smith 2]

I don't condone terrorism by anyone, but when you look at the big picture of US involvement in the middle east over the last 2 decades, it is easy to see what cultivated the anti-western extremism, and some of their (Al Qaedas) beefs are, in all fairness, quite legitimate and deserved. U.S. policies in Iran/Iraq created these anti-USA monsters, and in some cases even armed and trained them. I love the U.S., but also I'm so ignorant as to believe that our politicians and big businesses aren't doing some truly nasty things in other parts of the world in order to make things nicer and cheaper here...

 

[Tom Schindler]

Adam,



I could not agree more. Globalization is nothing more then legal slavery. The say it is to give those in other countries opportunities, but the data says different.





Tom

 

[Jose Santana]

Well said Adam, and with that said we need to watch our back, but to advocate Nuking any nation with a preemtive nuke strike is wrong.... kills too many people... We don't need to resort to that yet!!



Still the greatest threats are Russia Ukrain and China- but that's ok.



Joseymack

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

Globalization is nothing more then legal slavery. The say it is to give those in other countries opportunities, but the data says different.

Which data would that be.



Take China for example. Are you saying that globalization is enslaving its people, and that there is economic data that indicates that they are worse off with recent trends than the decades and centuries before?



I think you are confusing Globalization and your thoughts about it, and what Adam was talking about, which is "regime supporting."



TJR

 

[TomT]

I agree our foreign policy has pretty much sucked the last 20-30 years. And we can't just blame it on one party or the other. They have all made huge mistakes. Despite that I believe these people would still find a way to hate us. It's their nature. Just look at the way they hate the jews. Just the fact that we have a nation full of successfull jewish people pisses them off to no end. We could pull out of the mid-east today and these people will still continue their hatred towards us. It's the mid-east we need to fear, not Russia or China. They have all the crazy people.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

TomT says:

They have all the crazy people.

Clearly that's not true. I have seen plenty of crazy people in every country I have visited.



TJR

 

[Jose Santana]

TomT

Isreal committs atrocities just as bad as the Muslims.... The Palestinians do have an argument on the land they are being exiled from like it or not. Who's right and who's wrong is open for debate, but U.S. policy seems to turn a blind eye to Isreals strong hand tactics...

there are several reasons the Islamic countries dispise Isreal. I think many feel they are just a way for the Western world to stay strategically in the Middle East.. Like many people have said here they will do whatever is necessary to protect thier homes, i think Palestinians are doing just that.... I am not sure what should be done over there...



Flame ON!!!



Joseymack

 

[Johnny O]

That is exactly what pretty much every statement from Al Qaeda summarizes to! They are the ones who want to be left alone.

Then you don't realize that in some cultures, lying has been elevated to an art form. People say what is convenient and what you want to hear and what suits their needs at the time. What they say in public for US to hear and what they tell their followers are two different things. Do some digging, it doesn't take much. The goal is every Jew and Christian and non-fundamentalist Muslim dead. They're not real bashful about it.

Don't start about Bush lying about WMD's. Ample evidence that they were moved to Syria before we moved in. Saddam didn't kill all those Kurds by mixing bleach and toilet cleaner together.

Further, is chopping off peoples' hands, limbs, tongues, and heads as punisment okay with you? Is a complete lack of women's rights okay with you? Is barricading a dozen schoolgirls inside a burning school because if they escape the fire they'd be seen without their heads covered (better to be dead I guess) okay with you? Is the church and the government being one in the same and having religious police okay with you? (and the Left worries about the religious right in this country ) Is gang-raping a young girl because of some alleged transgression of her brother okay with you? That's what happens if you leave them alone. I thought the Left was all about human rights, but I guess not if it makes a Republican look correct. Like I said, it's a primitive religion for primitive people with the emotional maturity of 5 year olds, except they have guns and money.

 

[TomT]

TomT says:

Quote:



They have all the crazy people.





Clearly that's not true. I have seen plenty of crazy people in every country I have visited.

At least in our country we keep them all in Pennsylvania!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

PLEASE READ:



I find it interesting some of the viewpoints on this thread so I thought I would share mine.



I hear some that seem to think that the terrorists started this war. They didn't. The whole "you started it" argument worked when we were 7 years old and on the playground, but the world is more complex than that, and we are not innocent.



We have been nation building in the Middle East for over 50 years and it has come home to roost. There are countries in the Middle East that are the richest in the world, yet only a few share in those riches while the masses starve. There has been conflict in the area that has resulted in centuries-long feuds that for the most part have been skirmishes, until the US, with its power, might, and resources, choose a side and cast a shadow of fear and contempt over the whole region.



We had and still have our interests in the area and I don’t fault our interests, simply our methods. I'm not excusing anything that terrorists have done or will do, but I can understand it. For those that say they "hate us because of our freedoms", or they "hate and want to kill all Christians", that's just rhetoric; rhetoric from both sides.



No, they hate us because of what we have done and who we are and what we can do and continue to do. We exploit their country and their resources by propping up puppet dictators, by funding them through oil purchases and arms trading, all while the masses are left poor and powerless. Those poor and powerless simply need an intelligent, articulate; typically misguided voice and cause to rally behind. Rhetoric and reason like "they are all infidels and must die for our kingdom to come" is what the masses are sold as a cause by their zealot leaders. It could have been almost any cause.



So, we are in this mess. It took over 50 years. We stirred up a hornet’s nest and positioned ourselves the once-removed ruler, and we tried to do it in an area of the world that hasn't seen peace in over a thousand years.



And we wonder why they hate us?



The only real solutions to this problem won't be quick ones. They won't include more war, at least not long term. The real solution will require us to change. For us to step back. For us to remove our interests from that area and let it solve its own problems.



Thanks for listening.



TJR

 

[Johnny O]

At least in our country we keep them all in Pennsylvania!

Gotta watch them there Amish extremists. Might crash a hijacked buggy loaded with lantern fuel into a Verizon store.