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I love the newly married male mentality. "Head of the household"...bwahaha!



I'm coming up on 18 years marriage (and 6 years of dating before that), am pretty much the sole provider, but by no means would I ever delude myself to think I am the head of the household.



Notions like "making the final decision" and "having the last say" don't say much about marriage, especially marriage as a partnership. Newsflash guys, the 1950s ended a half-century again.



And the statement "it takes a real man to take the lead in a houshold" is just darn insulting. It insinuates that we married men that value and hold our wive's opinion equal to our own and come to mutual agreements on things with no assumed "veto" capability are somehow not real men. What an insult!



Frankly I wouldn't want to be married to a woman who would allow themselves to be treated in such a way.



TJR
 
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My parents have been married for 37 years and Theresa's parents have were married for 52 years before her mother died from cancer. Both of those men were the head of the household. There was none of that "newly married male mentality. "Head of the household"...bwahaha!". Dad was the boss and that was the way it was. Dad was not a tyrant, but he had the final say about everything. If mom was right and he was wrong, he was man enough to admit it.



My wife is my equal, but I am her head.TJR, you say you are a christian...don't you?





Tom
 
Caymen, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with older generations feeling that way and it working for them.



I think this whole "head of the household", and "having the final say" way of thinking is outdated, that's all.



And it is NOT anti-Christian to think that way, IMHO.



Caymen, you also said:
If mom was right and he was wrong, he was man enough to admit it.



Well, in a household where the man has the final say, then that can happen quite a bit...the man being wrong and having to admit it. Isn't it a better arrangement when the husband and wife can listen to each other and come to the best possible decision they both can agree on, without one person assuming they have the "final say” and therefore ruling the household with potentially bad or decisions?



Caymen also asks:
My wife is my equal, but I am her head.



Nope, she is not your equal, not if YOU are her head as you say. You can't have it both ways. If you are the head of her, then she is not your equal.



You also say:
TJR, you say you are a christian...don't you?



You yourself, Caymen, take a decidedly "non-traditional" Christian view towards homosexuality, and I support that, but you seem to question my Christianity when I question gender-bias that was no-doubt placed in the Bible by MAN and not God....ponderous.



If I wanted to start a fight I would say that to some it would seem that you treat homosexuals that you have no real vesting in with more respect and admiration than your own wife, but that would be a low blow, so I won't say it. ;)



TJR

 
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Caymen, others that subscribe to this "head of the household" thinking, consider these questions and answer them here if you would:



1. Do you feel that you moreso than your wife is better equipped or capabile of making the final decision on issues of importance in your family and if so, explain why?



2. If not, and you assume you and your wife is equally capable of making the decisions for your household, why do you think that YOU alone should have the "final say" on decisions?



Before answering, let me state that I recognize there are areas of expertise that people have, and some of those lie along gender lines. For example, my wife willingly lets me select computers and high tech gear for the house, etc, but those types of things, the cars we drive, etc, aren't really the "important decisions" I'm talking about.



I guess I'm trying to userstand where this "veto" and "final say" mentality comes from and why it is considered good, and healthy.



TJR
 
I'm with Caymen. God set up a hierarchy for order, and the man is the head of the house. Now, this does not mean that the man can do anything he wants to his wife, because with increased authority also comes increased responsibility.



My understanding is that this view is biblical.



TJR's opinion seems to be more secular--more of the "don't tell Junior he is wrong or else you might ruin his self-esteem" kind of thinking. Somethings are certain ways and it is OK to talk about it. It isn't necessarily good or bad--that is just the way it is.
 
Gavin said:
TJR's opinion seems to be more secular--more of the "don't tell Junior he is wrong or else you might ruin his self-esteem" kind of thinking. Somethings are certain ways and it is OK to talk about it. It isn't necessarily good or bad--that is just the way it is.



I'm not sure where that came from. That viewpoint on not hurting kids self-esteem isn't a secular one in my opinion, nor is it even one that I subscribe to. I actually think just the opposite; that we should provide our kids with diverse situations and an occasional loss or hardships to help them learn self-esteem and other good life lessons.



I'm just not sure how one opinion (that woman is NOT subservient to man), equates to the other you mention, Gavin.



Gavin, you also say:
Somethings are certain ways and it is OK to talk about it. It isn't necessarily good or bad--that is just the way it is.



Women being viewed subservient to men isn't just some "harmless way it is"...it's harmful. It's outdated and as a way of thinking and acting it should end.



TJR
 
You yourself, Caymen, take a decidedly "non-traditional" Christian view towards homosexuality, and I support that, but you seem to question my Christianity when I question gender-bias that was no-doubt placed in the Bible by MAN and not God....ponderous.



I support keeping religon OUT of the government and keeping government OUT of religon.



My views on homosexuality is not that it is OK to be gay, but if it is proven that it is caused by imperfection, than it is not as much as a sin, but as a disability. I also do not want the government to decide on laws because of what religos finatics say is the right thing to do.



No where in my faith, are there three rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Our government says that we have those rights. By the government NOT allowing gay's to get married, they are infringing on one of those rights, or the pursuit of happiness.



I personally find homosexuality vile and gross, it is not my choice to chastize them for it. They have to answer for the way they live, if there is truly a day for judgement.



More later....





Tom
 
No where in my faith, are there three rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Our government says that we have those rights.



Tom,



Government doesn't give us those rights.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.



Government only protects these rights. And only because we give government that power.



That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,



Would that our elected officials remember that whole "deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" part...:angry:
 
In other words, those that do not believe in god have none of those rights. Would that be the way it is?





Tom
 
Keeping this Energizer Bunny going.



Recently Bible scholars have revealed that Mary Magdeline was a deciple of Jesus the Christ, and the "men" writing the Bible were keeping with the current thinking of the times and "the church". What I do know is that women are a sea of emotions and the men more logical, the rudder in that sea of emotion. Ponder that for a while. :D



Cayman says:

My views on homosexuality is not that it is OK to be gay, but if it is proven that it is caused by imperfection, than it is not as much as a sin, but as a disability.



Science did not prove that being homosexual is an "imperfection" because we are all perfect just the way we are. God placed each of us in a life experience for the lessons that our spirit, that resides in a human body, has to learn on this earth plane. What science has proven is that homosexuals, male or female, are that way because of genetics, not by choice. :blink: Do not take this as a contradiction, but I personally feel that there are a few homosexuals that are that way by choice because of bad relationships with the opposite sex. :unsure:
 
Rodger,



I believe that we were created as perfect individuals, but because of the sin by Adam and Eve, we are no longer perfect. Because of that, Jesus died for our sins. Since we have not paid for the original sin, our death, we are all imperfect. Until we are restored back to perfection, we have those that can not control how we are.





Tom
 
Tom, That's where we are going to have to agree to disagree. My teaching is that there is no original sin. Why would Christ die for our sins when he is the way shower of what we have inside us to become as him and more (that is stated in the Bible). We most certainly can control how we are just by making decision or choice to keep aiming to align ourselves to hit the mark of becoming more like Christ.
 
Caymen, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with older generations feeling that way and it working for them.



I think this whole "head of the household", and "having the final say" way of thinking is outdated, that's all.



And it is NOT anti-Christian to think that way, IMHO.



That line of thinking might be considered "outdated" but ironically, divorce rates have since that "outdated" thinking has changed. Coincidence? I doubt it.



As for being anti-Christian, ever read the scripture that says the head of the Woman is the Man. The head of the Man is Christ. The head of Christ is God.



Well, in a household where the man has the final say, then that can happen quite a bit...the man being wrong and having to admit it. Isn't it a better arrangement when the husband and wife can listen to each other and come to the best possible decision they both can agree on, without one person assuming they have the "final say” and therefore ruling the household with potentially bad or decisions?



That is the way it works. The best possible decision isn't always what is best for the man, but sometimes the best for the man is best for the family. That is where headship comes into play. In no way does saying as the head of household does the man act like a tyrant.



For crying out loud, my name is not Dubya.



If I wanted to start a fight I would say that to some it would seem that you treat homosexuals that you have no real vesting in with more respect and admiration than your own wife, but that would be a low blow, so I won't say it.



I treat my wife with the absolute utmost respect. She is my queen and I care about her more than myself.



Caymen, others that subscribe to this "head of the household" thinking, consider these questions and answer them here if you would:



1. Do you feel that you moreso than your wife is better equipped or capabile of making the final decision on issues of importance in your family and if so, explain why?



Depends on the situation. Men think with logic, women think with emotion. Some situations depend on logic, other require emotion.



2. If not, and you assume you and your wife is equally capable of making the decisions for your household, why do you think that YOU alone should have the "final say" on decisions?



Again, it dpepends on the situation. Sometimes we get caught up with emotional things. Both men and women do. That doesn;t mean the man MUST just "pull the trump card" and make a decision. That is where respect comes into play. Sure, if my wife was an investment manager, I would let her decide where to invest our money. If she was a lawyer, I would not tell her how to plead a case. Same with what she does for a living. I give her ideas on how to increase her sales. Sometimes she tells me it wont work, and I let it go. Other times, she will look at me and say she never thought about it, but will do it.



Before answering, let me state that I recognize there are areas of expertise that people have, and some of those lie along gender lines. For example, my wife willingly lets me select computers and high tech gear for the house, etc, but those types of things, the cars we drive, etc, aren't really the "important decisions" I'm talking about.



I understand where you are coming from, but you think as if I walk into the house and she gets on the floor and kisses my feet. As if I require her to do that.



I guess I'm trying to userstand where this "veto" and "final say" mentality comes from and why it is considered good, and healthy.



It is good and healthy. I show her love and she gives me respect. I get respected therefore, I show her more love. She gets more love and she gives me more respect. It is awesome.



God comanded the man to love his wif
 
Yeah.. women just make decision from their emotions.. no logic..



Don't get into this airplane with my sister... she just thinks emotionally when she has to make an emergency landing ... which she has before....



<img src="http://www.zjstech.net/~library/6179/PLANE/1.jpg">

<img src="http://www.zjstech.net/~library/6179/PLANE/2.jpg">



By the way it sounds.. some of the people on this board barely can control a 4500lb SUV...:lol:



Sorry, but wakeup people ... we are not cavemen nor are we some ancient tribe that still believes that women are inferior because they look a lot better than us men...



Get over it ... move on ... smell the roses. (or if thats to girly for you, then smell the gun powder)... this whole idea that men can make better decisions is quite interesting.



Thats why car insurance is more expensive for males.....

 
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My wife has the final word most of our 35 yrs. of marriage. I show her love and she returns my love, not returns respect even through she does respect me as well, most of the time. I guess that is why our marriage partners are brought to us, because if I were to tell my wife that I was the head of the house I would be in divorce court faster that the blink of an eye. :eek:
 
God set up a hierarchy for order, and the man is the head of the house.



Looks like we have some Muslims in the house. What color is her veil?



My views on homosexuality is not that it is OK to be gay, but if it is proven that it is caused by imperfection, than it is not as much as a sin, but as a disability.



Interesting - Gay = Disabled. Guess they can shop at WalMart.



By the government NOT allowing gay's to get married, they are infringing on one of those rights, or the pursuit of happiness.



How is that an infringement on "pursuit"? The right is pursuit, not happiness. They are free to pursue it all they like.



grump
 
Caymen says:
That line of thinking might be considered "outdated" but ironically, divorce rates have since that "outdated" thinking has changed. Coincidence?



Not a coincidence...not applicable.



More people stayed together because that was what society expected. More people stayed together because women were MORE dependant on men for their welfare. It was the antiquated notions that kept people together. But staying together isn't always what's best.



Don't get me wrong, I think divorce rates now are alarming, mostly because two selfish kids enter into a marriage (regardless their age, they are selfish kids) and they expect that through marriage they will get the things that they want out of life, and get it from their partners. That just doesn't happen. In a healthy marriage both get as much as they put in, no more, no less, which leaves no place for selfish people.



Caymen also said:
It is good and healthy. I show her love and she gives me respect. I get respected therefore, I show her more love. She gets more love and she gives me more respect. It is awesome.



Are you talking about your wife, or your pet dog?



TJR
 
Oh, and one other thing, Caymen:
God comanded the man to love his wife. The woman was comanded to respect her husband.



And God commanded 12 guys to fly planes in the WTC and the Pentagon.



Just because man believes that God commands them to do something, doesn't mean we shouldn't question in, look into those comamnds, and make sure they make sense and are rightous.



My God didn't make woman subservient to men.



TJR
 
Don't get me wrong, I think divorce rates now are alarming, mostly because two selfish kids enter into a marriage (regardless their age, they are selfish kids) and they expect that through marriage they will get the things that they want out of life, and get it from their partners. That just doesn't happen. In a healthy marriage both get as much as they put in, no more, no less, which leaves no place for selfish people.



Can those selfish kids be caused because the proper headship is not honored?



You can argue it all you want. You can dismiss it all you want. You can deny it all you wan't. I love my wife and that is that.



I will do anything for her, even if it is not in my best interest. I am not a tyrant. If there is an impass, i will make the final decision based on what is best for the family, not what is best for one individual.



And God commanded 12 guys to fly planes in the WTC and the Pentagon.



Provided you believe those that follow the Muslem faith are actually following God. There are many false religons out there. IMO, the Islamic faith is one of them.



How is that an infringement on "pursuit"? The right is pursuit, not happiness. They are free to pursue it all they like
.



I love how people can interperate the law to suit their own needs and hurt those that follow the law like everyone else.





Tom
 

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