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Hey, Les, at leasts you get it.



You seem to have a very enlighted view of what being gay means. I wish more were like you.



Gay isn't a choice. I can't choose to be gay anymore than I can choose to be hetero. I can choose to commit gay or straight sex acts, or to engage in certain activity that is associated with the gay, or straight lifestyle...but those are actions, not sexual orientation.



TJR

 
Gay isn't a choice. I can't choose to be gay anymore than I can choose to be hetero. I can choose to commit gay or straight sex acts, or to engage in certain activity that is associated with the gay, or straight lifestyle...but those are actions, not sexual orientation.
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Being a chocoholic isn't a choice. I can't choose to not like chocolate anymore than I can choose to be hetero. I can choose to eat vanilla ice cream or not have sweets at all, or to engage in certain activity that is associated with food indulgence, or a nutritionally-balanced lifestyle...but those are actions, not flavor orientation.



Don't get me wrong, TJR--I have a very enlightened view of what being gay means. But you appear to me to have a very unenlightened view of what being a significant chocolate consumer means. For you to not see and acknowledge the similarities between the two indicates to me that you don't have an adequate comprehension of one, the other, or both.
 
Years ago, people who were left handed were forcefully taught to be right-handed in schools, primarily because we live in a right-handed world. Now most of us are wiser and know that left-handed people are not any different than right-handed people. Appearantly some wires in their brains got crossed and the were born with their left hands being more dominate. Heck, some people are ambidextrous, just like some people are bi-sexual...
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Now wait just a minute. Left handers are way different from right handers. I thought everyone knew that right-handedness was a birth defect, just as having thick hair on your head is a birth defect.



As for being ambidextrous, I'd give my right arm to have that condition! :lol:
 
BillV,



Chocoholism is an addiction. You are never really cured. You will always be a chocoholic, and your family and friends that can eat just one Hershey's bar wiill never really understand your affliction.



TJR
 
I think we are all trying to paint gays with a very broad brush when there are many differences in gays.



I said that gays have a preference for the same-sex relationships. The choice part is if they want to be openly gay, or date, or marry someone of the opposite sex. That choice may hide the fact that they are gay, but that may not be their true preference. That way it appliese to what Bill V said. So the choice may not be to be gay but to choose whether to go with your sexual preference (Openly or hiden) or to act heterosexual even though that is not your preference.



I also think there are some people who are bi-sexual and are comfortable with either sex. Many of them are deemed to be gay, but are they really gay??



I also don't agree that all gays are born gay. Some are, and some may find some comfort in bing gay due to some early life experience...perhaps they were molested as a child by and adult of the same sex. I think that can be tramatic to a child and create some sort of confusion as the child grows older. Why do some people like spanking, or S&M ? Do we say they are born that way?? Perhaps a few are, but others were exposed to something that altered they perceive sex and pleasure. I'm not saying that there is something wrong with them, it's just that many people consider that behavior a bit different and perhaps kinky and others don't, So is that a choice, a preference, or are they somehow compelled to do that for sexual gratification?



I don't think we understand any of this enough to really know the how and why of gays or why some people enjoy such sexual behavior?



...Rich



 
RichardL said:
I said that gays have a preference for the same-sex relationships
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I know that's what you said. That's primarily what I have issue with.



It's like saying that I prefer a heterosexual relationship. That, to me is simply not accurate. It's not a preference as I am not gay or bi-sexual. Therefore a gay relationship isn't an option for me, as if I choose it it would be forced...not real.



RichardL also said:
I also don't agree that all gays are born gay. Some are, and some may find some comfort in bing gay due to some early life experience...perhaps they were molested as a child by and adult of the same sex.
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Statistics show that molestation is more likely to breed molesters, not gays. Many often blur the lines between child molesters and homosexuals. That's unfortunate. I've read studies that male molesters that prey on young boys don't consider themselves gay and aren't attracted to other men...just boys. So are they gay?



Most gay people are born gay. Studies (if you believe them) prove it. Sure, someone can choose to commit gay acts, or not. They can choose to live a gay lifestyle, or not. But few heteros choose the gay lifestyle...none that I know of.



I think human sexuality is a spectrum. At one end of the scale you have completely, 100% gay, and at the other end you have complete 100% hetero. Where a person "fits" on that scale is largely genetic, partially environmental, and partially choice...but largely genetic.



Parallel to that gay/hetero scale of sexuality you have several other scales that help to chart so-called norms, quirks, fetishes and even what we consider deviants. Some of those scales and points on it we accept (men that like women with big boobs), and some we don't (men that like little boys). Those scales and the attitudes about them are constantly changing.



TJR

 
Studies have shown that straight men are more likely to play with little boys than a gay man is.



As a straight guy that has not chosen a heterosexual sexual relationship, It is not a choice of life. I think guys are gross and women are simply awesome. I can't stand using the men's restroom because there is a chance I might see another mans privates. That is just gross. Public showers, absolutly not. Nothing attractive about a man, plain and simple.



I don't know how women do it.



With that being said, it was not a choice to me. That is the way I am.



I am sure a gay guy wakes up and says "I want to be gay". They are that way from birth. They have no choice the be any way than they are, just like I am not able to be anything but hetero.





Tom
 
Caymen said:
I can't stand using the men's restroom because there is a chance I might see another mans privates. That is just gross. Public showers, absolutly not. Nothing attractive about a man, plain and simple.
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:huh:
 
The question really is, what is the image. It is what we look like, or is the image love, compassion, hope, etc?





Tom
 
When people don't know the cause, the rely on statistics, which in my opion paints everybody with the same broad brush.



When I say gays prefer same-sex relationships, it only means that they have discovered an attraction to the same-sex. Many gays do not realize they are gay and live their life like most heterosexuals to the point that they will fall in love, bet married and have children and at some point discover that they are really more attracted to the opposite sex. Not all of them covert to openly gay and will remain married.



I agree that what ever makes a person gay is beyond anyones control, and nobody knows what triggers it. What I am saying is that a gay person has a choice to live a gay lifestyle or a heterosexual lifestyle. I am not passing judgement on which lifestyle they choose, and I don't think anyone else should.



Most of us grew up in Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, etc religios homes based on the regious beliefs that our parents grew up with. We had no choice but we accepted it, although not 100% convinced. Later you might be exposed to another religion and thing their beliefs and practices are more in line with yours and you change religions.

You made the choice and now that is your preference.



You are not born with knowledge of religion you are taught it, but no everyone accepts it even as a child. Gays may be born with the gay trait or what ever makes them gay, and perhaps we are all born with the same trait, but some will develop asheterosexuals and others as homosexuals? Again nobody knows the cause or reason,,and surely statistics don't really tell us much about human behavior. It's no different than why some kids want to be doctors, pollicemen, firemen, etc and some do and others don't



...Rich
 
What I am saying is that a gay person has a choice to live a gay lifestyle or a heterosexual lifestyle. I am not passing judgement on which lifestyle they choose, and I don't think anyone else should.
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Hmmm. So are you also saying that a straight person has a choice to live a gay or hetero lifetstyle?:huh:
 

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