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Not really sure how this conserves (fuel). The extra roundtrip won't make much difference as now people will have a three day weekend. At least in my case, I use as much if not more, gas on the weekends than/as I do during the work week. If everyone that will now work a four day week will be staying home and not driving, I see the potential benefit. I just don't think that's going to happen. Makes me think that will encourage people to do more since now they have a three day weekend and there will be a desire to do things and not be bored at home.
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Hence why I said



Ok, so on that off day you may use more but maybe not.
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I have seen my vehicles sit almost the entire weekend.



I know that my round trip commute is 38 miles or so - that is about $8/day * 50 (estimate # of weeks) = approx $400. If that money is put back into the economy in a fashion other than gas (home improvements, landscaping, etc) the economy as a whole will thrive. There is your stimulus package. Not to mention the non-$$ benefits of potentially bringing families closer together as they do more things together with their "extra" weekend day.



Hell, it's worth a shot. I just want the 4 day work week. Who came up with this 5 day crap anyway - why work 5/7 of your life away?









 
Most of us are working more than 56 hours a week, not exactly what the Fair Labor Standards Act intended when it set the 40-hour workweek in 1938. 12-hour days result in lousy productivity, expensive mistakes, burnout, triple the risk of heart attack etc...



As we face a a global economy in the midst of recession, we find major corporations in the United States laying off workers, cutting wages and benefits, and suggesting 4 day work weeks.



When businesses introduce, flex time, the four day work week, or job sharing, it is no different than going from full time employment to part time. WE LOSE. But it doesn't have to be so. The Labor movement has always been in the forefront of the struggle for full employment, pay equity and shorter hours. Before Ford introduced the eight hour day, it was at a time when the average work week was 60 hours. In steel plants the work days were 12 hours long six days a week. Brutal! Do we want to see that again?? If we stay at war (or even invade Iran) will there even be a day off? We are treading dangerous ground here.



Dont assume since it is the year 2008 that we have always moved forward in the labor struggle. The great depression did not happen in one day. The people (if they had a job) toiled those long hours in terrible conditions, because they were forced to. If you get a 4 day work week at your shop, will the bosses just add a day when the economy worsens? We are very close to this RIGHT NOW. You wont catch me giving in. NO WAY! Think about it.



I am realistic here. I do not think the corporations will try to employ children, or anything radical like that. But, they will try to get an advantage wherever they can. They figure the Union men and women, already working crazy hours, will gladly go for a 4 day week. They use "labor relations" firms (Lawyers) to advise them in how to gain every advantage in Labor negotiations. They want the 12 hour day to make a comeback. DO NOT BE FOOLED! It all sounds good. Nothing is free people. If you give up the 40 hour work week, you will never see it again. I guess if you come from a strong Union family like I did you just know these things. I cannot stress enough, that I am not just on a high-horse. Never give up something that is working well.
 
Frank,



While I do agree with you on some points, I disagee with you in a 40 hour workweek.



Nobody is asking us to eliminate a 40 hour work week.



Would you rather drive to work 5 days a week working 8 hours a day or 4 days a week working 10 hours a day? I would take the latter. The idea of having a 3 day weekend every weekend would be wonderful. Imagine what you could get done with one extra day off. Cookouts, relaxing, drinking, mechanic work, golfing, etc.



Heck, give me three 12 hour days of work for 36 hours will full benefits and I would be doing something in my jeans. Oh baby!!!



I know it is al a game and I am a firm believer in the slippery slope. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.



Remember, the door swings both ways.





Tom
 


Paranoia is an exaggerated distrust of others that is not based on fact. As a psychotic feature of bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia, paranoia may manifest as delusions of persecution. Paranoid personality disorder is classed as a separate mental illness in its own right, where an unfounded belief that the patient is being persecuted is the primary symptom.
 
Yes give them an inch and they will take a mile.



If you work over 8 hours in a day, (remember, unhealthy, dangerous) you ARE giving something away. In my case, it is OVER time pay. (OVER the time you have to be there to collect benefits). All of this shit has been trod over years and years ago. You are missing it. If you take something NOW, you may be in a different situation later. My wife and I had this discussion recently. She believes the way you do. She gets to be home more because of 10 hour days. Will she always be 35 years old with young kids? No.



Do you think for one minute the workplace would worsen or improve without the threat of a work stoppage or a strike? The threat of punishment, and loss of money straightens out a lot of problems. No better motivator than money. Right? Yep.



Remember the movie with Cruise and Nicholson? When Nicholson says: "You cant handle the truth!" "You all live under the blanket of freedom of which I provide" There lies the answer. If there werent Unions, such as the Laborers, or the Teamsters who will walk out and cripple some ratty company for trying to weasle out of a contract, then all the rest of the work places would become sweatshops. Unions are the only obstacle left in thier way. Its true and you know it. I know it is an ego bruiser. But thats the way it goes.



I know it sounds a little archaic, but we arent in a healthy economic situation right now because we are at war. If this war continues, (192 billion given by congress few weeks ago)

there wont be free time to speak of. Companies arent hiring right now. You may see help wanted at some 7 dollar an hour joints, but they just need a sucker.



It hinges on this Presidential election, and if they truly think our (fragile) economy can handle invading Iran. This is not idle chat. This is a distinct possibility here. Dont become complacent. Stay strong and think of the future. Dont take a quick fix. I tell my local members that all the time. I hope they take my speeches to heart.



Work Union/Live better



 
Frank said:
If you work over 8 hours in a day, (remember, unhealthy, dangerous) you ARE giving something away
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Oh, really? So it would never be in someone's best interest to work OT and get paid straight time for it? All jobs are more unhealthy and dangerous when worked an 9th or 10th hour a day...care to show some stats?



Listen to my story...



This was 25 years ago. I used to work 9 and 10 hour days sans overtime when working construction. We did it "off the books", and we did it because it was win-win. Often there was an hour or so travel to the job site, and working 9 or 10 hour days meant leaving early Friday, or not working at all on Friday.



We worked the extra hours each day so that we got in our 40 hours/week early and had a longer weekend. As I said, it worked for us. We were a non-union company.



It was quite commonplace.



I should say, however, there were exceptions. Whenever working in a strong union town with a strong labor local we often had to take on a couple of union guys into our regular crew and had to do so just to get the contract. The one or two union guys we would get were typically the types of guys that were near retirement, hanging around the union hall waiting for an assignment. When these guys were on the job (note, I said "on the job" because even when there, they didn't do much work) they got paid 40 hours for showing up for 32. You see, they wouldn't work the couple of extra hours each day without OT pay, and we weren't about to pay them OT pay when they weren't worth the straight pay we were forced to pay them.



Are all unions and union members like that? Nope, I'm sure note. However, that is my experience with unions and OT.



P.S.

The company was around for 40 years, and lasted longer than any of its competitors in the area that were unionized, largely in part because the employees were glad to have the company jobs, and willing to work and sacrifice to keep those jobs. In central NY in the late 70s and 80s good jobs were hard to find...still are. In the late 80s the company went under largely because NY state started awarding more and more jobs to minority-owned companies.



Again, I don't like protectionism.



TJR
 
Frank also said:
Do you think for one minute the workplace would worsen or improve without the threat of a work stoppage or a strike? The threat of punishment, and loss of money straightens out a lot of problems. No better motivator than money. Right? Yep.
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You might want to take a look at Fortune magazine's 2008 "100 Best Companies to Work For" and see how many of them are unionized.



By your logic, all 100...right?



TJR
 
Hey TjR You speak just to refute my points, just because you are anti-Union. I contend that yes MANY of the fortune 100 best companies DO have Union members working directly for them. If they have a plant or site near ANY city of any significance...they DO of course have Union members working for them.



You need to, instead of just polarizing everything I say, come back with something valid.



(how did he get in the middle of this anyway?)
 
Frank said:
You need to, instead of just polarizing everything I say, come back with something valid.
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You seem to polarize most everything you say all on your own. You don't need my help. You originallty said that "IF" you work more than 8 hours a day than you "ARE" giving something away. You are the one that made the polarized claim. I gave an example that was contrary.



Also, I looked at just the top 10 companies from list of the 2008 best companies to work for, and none of them were union companies that I saw.



I suspect a majority of the companies in the full list aren't unionized. Sure, some of the companies may employ union contractors, etc, but that's a different story. My point was that the regular, FT employees of most of these companies that are "THE BEST COMPANIES TO WORK FOR" enjoy world-class employment, all provided WITHOUT that union threat that you spoke of...a threat that you said in a matter of fact manner is required to make companies make good working environments. Your words...not mine.



You also said:
Companies arent hiring right now. You may see help wanted at some 7 dollar an hour joints, but they just need a sucker.
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Some jobs are only worth $7/hr and some people are only skilled for such jobs. Many people take those jobs, work them with dignity, and are good members of our society...I wouldn't call them SUCKERS.



TJR
 
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Back on topic

Crude has dropped $20.00 per barrel in the past 7 days, WHY, because we now have an oil surplus,WHY, because people have cut back on gas use.

For those that have cut back, pls continue to do so, it will work.
 
I have to agree with Bill, that once the price of gas goes back down, we can not go back to our old ways of gas guzzling. If we do revert back to our old driving habits the price of gas will shoot right back up. That is S&D. We must keep the demand down, and continue to find alternative sources of fuel in order to stick it to OPEC, and put them out of business. They now think that they do not have to use terrorism to destroy us, but kill us with high gas prices. They are doing a pretty good job of killing the airlines already. I have heard nothing about the airlines attempting to find alternative fuels.
 
10 is a lot different that 100. There are Hospitals, casinos, hotels, labs and factories on this list. I gave you a little reality check and you backpedaled like Lance Armstrong.



Regardless, I am sure you see that I discounted your top 100 companies are all Non Union claim.



I know you are anti union TJR but I dont get it. If a person works Union he/she gets a better wage and of course benefits. Why is that so un appealing to some. There must be an agenda there. You must have had a bad experience with a Union, or you are a shop owner who wants to give the bare minimum in wages to your people. I bet your shop never shows up on that top 100 list. Usually those companies who are on that list, are making so much money they would be remiss not to treat thier people well. They want to avoid any labor trouble because it would mess up a good thing.



I bet the people making 7 dollars for no benefits would love to work for Union wages. Why dont you let us salt your shop? An organized workplace would make your community nicer. Come on just do it!



HAHAH





 
Frank,



I think I understand why people can't talk to you on this site, and many don't listen to you anymore...it's because you can't really understand what people are saying.



You said:
Regardless, I am sure you see that I discounted your top 100 companies are all Non Union claim.
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I never said the top 100 companies are ALL non-union. In my original post I simply stated that by your logic all of them would be unionized. Then, in the subsequent post I said: "I suspect a majority of the companies in the full list aren't unionized."



Note how I never really claimed anything specific for you to discount, and most definiately didn't say what you said I said.



You did, however go on to say:
I know you are anti union TJR but I dont get it.
Click to expand...



I'm not anti-union; I'm anti-extortion; anti-collusion; anti-protectionism (for the most part).



You also said:
If a person works Union he/she gets a better wage and of course benefits.
Click to expand...



Are you trying to say that without unions there is always low pay? That without unions there would be no employee benefits? If so, I'm not buying.



You also said:
Why is that so un appealing to some. There must be an agenda there. You must have had a bad experience with a Union, or you are a shop owner who wants to give the bare minimum in wages to your people.
Click to expand...



There is no agenda. Good companies are paying their people very well, giving them competitive wages and benefits without being unionized, and without the fear of a union coming in. The list of the top 100 I posted is evidence of that. Their motiviation to "do right" by their employee comes from only one form of extortion, and that is that happy, content employees make good employees...they don't need work strikes, or union reps to know that, and their employees are smart enough not to get their wages pick-pocketed by some union that wouldn't provide a return on their investment.



You went on to say:
I bet your shop never shows up on that top 100 list.
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Thankfully I now work in an industry that is largely without unions. It is the IT industry.



Lastly you said:
Usually those companies who are on that list, are making so much money they would be remiss not to treat thier people well. They want to avoid any labor trouble because it would mess up a good thing.
Click to expand...



All companies that are WORTH working for treat their employees well because they know that is the key to success. Any other company won't be around long. I submit this to be a "business fact"...good companies value their employees and doing so is a key to their success. Most companies have figured that out.



I further submit that in today's world any company that hasn't figured that out, and that is still exploiting their employees won't last long. Sure, there probably still is a place for unions in the companies that haven't figured this out, but who wants to work for a company that treats their people poorly and their people have to pay the "school bully" to represent them to make sure they don't get beat on?



TJR

 
Again, I don't like protectionism.
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Yes you do. You support the minimum wage. that is a form of protectionism.



The question is, are you a fan of protectionism or do you pick and choose what to say you support?





Tom
 
You might want to take a look at Fortune magazine's 2008 "100 Best Companies to Work For" and see how many of them are unionized.



By your logic, all 100...right?
Click to expand...



Don't you see the sign. The best companies are not unionized. Why? Because the good companies don't treat thier employees like crap therefore there is no need. If those companies treated thier empoyees like crap, they would be union and not on the list.



Duh.



I am sure the best neighbors do not have the cops at thier house every night...do they?





Tom
 


Paranoia

An exaggerated distrust of others that is not based on fact. As a psychotic feature of bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia, paranoia may manifest as delusions of persecution. Paranoid personality disorder is classed as a separate mental illness in its own right, where an unfounded belief that the patient is being persecuted is the primary symptom.
 
Lets not forget the other side of the spectrum. Anyond that trusts anyone completely is just stupid.



So, a mental disfunction compared to stupidity.



Not much difference between the two...in my book.



I trust no one.





Tom
 
Frank,



I am not anti-union, but I must say that unions have gotten greedy. There are too many people out of work willing to take a lesser wage. Ex.: Over 20 yrs. ago a union went on strike agaist a local newspaper and the newspaper just hired people willing to do the work: The strike was never settled. And, to tie that in to S&D; when you earn more the stores charge more because they know they can period. Then the cycle escalates.
 

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