Les
Well-Known Member
Simple question, yes or no, must be afraid to answer it. Now you resort to name calling, the true you.
Detroit CEOs fly private jets to Capitol Hill beg-fest
- Thread starter Carey Frennier
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Les
Well-Known Member
Date of that study?
Tom
Tom
Dang.....no wonder why it costs soo much to get service at the dealer.
One tip for those who still go to the dealer to get an oil change......before you go, take a marker and put an 'X' on the filter. I did this one time back when I had my Ranger and after they did the oil change, the same filter was still on the truck. So, not sure if they really did the oil change or not since the filter was the same one.
Not saying all dealers do this, but you never know for sure. It happend to me, it could happen to you.
One tip for those who still go to the dealer to get an oil change......before you go, take a marker and put an 'X' on the filter. I did this one time back when I had my Ranger and after they did the oil change, the same filter was still on the truck. So, not sure if they really did the oil change or not since the filter was the same one.
Not saying all dealers do this, but you never know for sure. It happend to me, it could happen to you.
Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
The date is right there on the post?!?!:wacko:
Get your head out of the sand!!!:lol:
had to do it, couldn't help myself....
Bad....
Get your head out of the sand!!!:lol:
had to do it, couldn't help myself....
Bad....
The above quote says this "study" is from 2007, the year the new contracts were negotiated to save the American Auto Industy. The workforce did their part, the CEO's didn't.
Of course, we are jealous because someone makes more than we do so they are the problem.
Tom
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
New contracts only for new hires. How many new hires when they need to close 20+ plants due to overcapacity and inefficiency?
Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
Sounds like liberal wealth envy to me....I could be wrong.....ooooppssss, did I say that?:lol:
gary s
Well-Known Member
tom,
again, enjoying life from your empty.....
[Broken External Image]:
again, enjoying life from your empty.....
[Broken External Image]:
Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
Really when you look at the CEO salaries in the Big 3 case,
It isn't that much money considering they are asking for 25 billion,
What does the 3 CEO's make combined? 200 million? or less.
That's pretty small considering what a billion is...
It's not totally the CEO salaries, it's all the employees from the
guy sweeping the floor making 20 bucks an hour to the guy with the air wrench
making 60 bucks an hour. And it's the retirees making 50,000 per year
plus medical benefits, death benefits, etc, etc.
Just like Social Security, it's all a Ponzi scheme the imcome stream is drying
up so they need a bailout. Why don't they just have across the board cuts?
including the CEO's...didn't bill ford take a salary of $1.00.
Personally I liked Bill Ford.
It isn't that much money considering they are asking for 25 billion,
What does the 3 CEO's make combined? 200 million? or less.
That's pretty small considering what a billion is...
It's not totally the CEO salaries, it's all the employees from the
guy sweeping the floor making 20 bucks an hour to the guy with the air wrench
making 60 bucks an hour. And it's the retirees making 50,000 per year
plus medical benefits, death benefits, etc, etc.
Just like Social Security, it's all a Ponzi scheme the imcome stream is drying
up so they need a bailout. Why don't they just have across the board cuts?
including the CEO's...didn't bill ford take a salary of $1.00.
Personally I liked Bill Ford.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bud makes a great point.
We would like to think that bloated CED salaries and abuses are the #1 thing bringing down large companies in trouble, but the reality is that they are typically only a very small fraction of the overall cost of all employee salaries, benefits and penisions where applicable.
We would like to think that bloated CED salaries and abuses are the #1 thing bringing down large companies in trouble, but the reality is that they are typically only a very small fraction of the overall cost of all employee salaries, benefits and penisions where applicable.
My father retired from the Auto industry.
A few wake-up facts.
My Dad did not make $20.00/hr sweeping the floor, nor did anyone make $60.00/hr with an air wrench.
My Dad is retired and he is NOT making $50,000/year plus benefits.
Get out of your fantasy world. You really need to stop making numbers up.
The problem is that CEO's will make costly decisions to make themselves more money and in the long run, will cost the company billions. They are not held accountable for it.
Why did Ford need to hire Mullaly? Was Bill Ford unable to understand that this economy with a Republican in office with fuel costs skyrocketing that Ford needs to start building small fuel efficient cars that people want? Really. I have no college education, yet I can figure that one out. Why is it that after however many millions of dollars Ford has paid Mullaly, has he finally figured that one out.
Heck, I could have told them that for free.
Here we are pointing fingers at the Big 3 CEO's about going to Washington, DC to beg for money flying a corporate jet, yet say a CEO making $20 Million is chicken feed. It cost Ford $20,000 to Fly Mullaly to DC. That is outrageous, yet his salary isn't.
Put him on the production line for a while. Let him earn his pay.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen saidL
That is "A" problem, but that is not "THE" problem.
Overly high labor cost overhead that is not easily trimmed, pensions and benefits for retirees that are too costly to be able to maintain, all coupled with very poor sales is "the problem".
The executives are largely at fault for poor sales, but not so much for the high cost of labor today or the cost of retirees. Their corporate great-grandfathers were either "forced" (by forces worth discussing) into the contracts and pension deals of the past, or made deals that at the time with the sales and growth expectations and life expectancies of the average worker all looked good on paper.
Times change. If the sales and growth expected had continued there wouldn't be a problem today.
No one complains about cost of employees, cost of benefits, etc., when a company is growing and well in the "black." *THE* problem is that large companies in the US require a growth model to provide the types of salaries and benefits (pensions) of the past...and most companies today don't work in a sector that is a growth sector...not for decade after decade.
That is "THE" problem. Trying to *lock* companies into employee contracts that they can't honor over the long haul simply isn't the answer, and that is why pensions and the like have gone the way of the Dodo.
TJR
That is "A" problem, but that is not "THE" problem.
Overly high labor cost overhead that is not easily trimmed, pensions and benefits for retirees that are too costly to be able to maintain, all coupled with very poor sales is "the problem".
The executives are largely at fault for poor sales, but not so much for the high cost of labor today or the cost of retirees. Their corporate great-grandfathers were either "forced" (by forces worth discussing) into the contracts and pension deals of the past, or made deals that at the time with the sales and growth expectations and life expectancies of the average worker all looked good on paper.
Times change. If the sales and growth expected had continued there wouldn't be a problem today.
No one complains about cost of employees, cost of benefits, etc., when a company is growing and well in the "black." *THE* problem is that large companies in the US require a growth model to provide the types of salaries and benefits (pensions) of the past...and most companies today don't work in a sector that is a growth sector...not for decade after decade.
That is "THE" problem. Trying to *lock* companies into employee contracts that they can't honor over the long haul simply isn't the answer, and that is why pensions and the like have gone the way of the Dodo.
TJR
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Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
What did you dad earn in todays dollars?
Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
:lol:
Rest assured, it was not near $50.00 in todays dollars.
Tom
Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
What years did he work there and did he retire?
How was his retirement calculated?
Did he have to take a reduced annuity from social security?
You have to remember that there are alot of variables
involved when calculating workforce pay.
The reason the unions encouraged a higher minimum wage
and decried the living wage is that unions calculate
their members pay based off of a multiple of the minimum wage.
The higher the minimum wage, the higher they get paid.
So we have government dictating to private business
what to pay theri workers, based on union contracts
and the above mentioned variable....
How was his retirement calculated?
Did he have to take a reduced annuity from social security?
You have to remember that there are alot of variables
involved when calculating workforce pay.
The reason the unions encouraged a higher minimum wage
and decried the living wage is that unions calculate
their members pay based off of a multiple of the minimum wage.
The higher the minimum wage, the higher they get paid.
So we have government dictating to private business
what to pay theri workers, based on union contracts
and the above mentioned variable....
He worked from 1955 to 1998.
Don't know, don't care, but I do know it isn't that imaginary and ignorant $50,000 number you made up.
Nope.
Am I supposed to care? Seriously? Should I give a FU$%?
Tom
Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
WOW,
Take it easy...
and yes I threw 50K out there, don't think it is too unrealistic...
Look at the federal tables, WG-10 makes around that...
Not unreasonable...
Take it easy...
and yes I threw 50K out there, don't think it is too unrealistic...
Look at the federal tables, WG-10 makes around that...
Not unreasonable...
It is unrealistic. You are saying that when retired, Ford is paying each guy $4,166/month. That is absurd.
Speak of facts, not of imaginary numbers.
The average UAW pension is less than $1,800/month. My Dad gets less that that because he has to pay for my mom's insurance coverage.
I think he gets 1200/month for a total of $14,000/year.
You were saying he was getting over 35K more a year.
Grow up and educate yourself before you spew crap.
Tom
