Detroit CEOs fly private jets to Capitol Hill beg-fest

[Carey Frennier]

The media jumps down their throat without even bothering to get the facts straight.



Bunch of idiots. I'm so sick of the media bashing the domestic auto industry.



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/19/motown-ceos-fly-private-jets-to-capitol-hill-beg-fest/

 

[Mark K 2]

Why fly three separate private jets? Makes them look foolish. Very inappropriate.



Hell, if I were on my way to Washington to beg for money, I'd at f*cking least hop on jetBlue economy class to make a good impression.



If the Senators refuse to hand over $25 billion, I don't blame them one bit. The auto execs can't even tell the Senators what they're going to do with the money.



The best thing that could happen is that they go into backruptcy so they can sh!tcan those bloated union contracts.

 

[Tom Schindler]

The best thing that could happen is that they go into backruptcy so they can sh!tcan those bloated union contracts.

Interesting that you say that. The last contract that the Big 3 negotiated with the UAW was in favor of the company. They were proud to say that the labor costs were now in line with the Japanese.



Which is it. Should we expect the workers to work for free while the CEO's can collect millions more in bone-us's for doing a good job.



Try this. Instead of collecting the spoils, try investing the money back into R&D to build a car that people want to buy.



Flying in 3 private jets just shows how they are still getting theirs, eff everyone else.





Tom

 

[Mark K 2]

They need to dump the pensions somehow. Why people should continue to be paid by the COMPANY they worked for years ago is so UN-21st Century that it's ridiculous. I'll bet they're still paying "salaries" to people who retired in the 1960's.

 

[Tom Schindler]

They need to dump the pensions somehow. Why people should continue to be paid by the COMPANY they worked for years ago is so UN-21st Century that it's ridiculous.

Yea, you are right about that. You agree on a wage with your employer. They say "You work for me and I will give you this".



Years later, they tell you, "Yea, i told you that, but I wasted the money flying around on private jets, throwing lavish parties, giving myself million upon millions of dollars in bonuses, and making us to continue to build things nobody wants to buy, I just can't afford to pay you what I said I was going to pay you".



I hope you don't mind.





Tom

 

[jason vocaty]

toms right on this one!

 

[EddieS'04]

Mark K, who brainwashed you that pensions are bad. Even some non union companies have them. That is part of your salary that was invested. If done properly your employer makes money on it. The military has pensions. The only pension that bothers me is what our congressmen get. Even for one term.

I have pension and a 401k. The 401 was from my paycheck. No company contribution. I thought Iwould throw that in. Just in case you think Im double dipping. What concerns me is Im 58 and I may not see my Social Security. While some of our crappy congressman get way to much. Even the lifers in congress havent put in the hours of work I have. For the same number of years worked.

I think my whole salary package was $40 hr. For a proccess control instrument tech. That is about average around the country, even for a non union tech with no pension.

 

[Bud Williams]

1600 - 2000 dollars for each car sold has embedded costs for retirees pension and healthcare costs, versus about 200-400 for japanese cars is what i saw on the news,

Something can be done, maybe have Lee Iaccoa negotiate the deal.

Not a huge Iaccoa fan, but he did it once before.



With gas prices back down to a reasonable level, maybe they will

sell enough trucks and suvs to at least break even.



Maybe we need to look at cars like the Ford Fiesta with that diesel

engine that gets 65 mpg.



We should stop subsidizing ethanol and summer and winter blends.

 

[Tom Schindler]

1600 - 2000 dollars for each car sold has embedded costs for retirees pension and healthcare costs, versus about 200-400 for japanese cars is what i saw on the news.

You cant forget that the Japanese are infants in this country when it comes to pensions. Ford Motor Company has been operating for about 105 years in the USA.



Every single one of us has benefited from the auto industry. The union movement made life better for all of us. We still benefit today.





Tom

 

[gary s]

"the union life made life better for us. we still benefit today"



true, that was 30 years ago, now the union is in part responsible for a failing economy



btw, i have no pension

 

[Tom Schindler]

true, that was 30 years ago, now the union is in part responsible for a failing economy

If you think so.



Some things to ponder. Japan is almost 100% unionized. Most of Europe is too.



Explain that.





Tom

 

[Mark K 2]

Mark K, who brainwashed you that pensions are bad

I don't think all pensions are bad. Just the way the Big Three have done theres.



My dad is living off a railroad pension. The railroads got it right. For the sake of a short response, their pensions are not a liability for the railroads. The assets were turned over years ago to a government trust to manage and invest for the retirees.



Of course, new employees were and are investing in other forms of retirement plans.



If the UAW and Big Three followed the railroads' example, they wouldn't be in the financial trouble they're in now.

 

[Tom Schindler]

If the UAW and Big Three followed the railroads' example, they wouldn't be in the financial trouble they're in now.

Actually, if the Big 3 would have continued to build vehicles people wanted, they would not be in this situation.





Tom

 

[Bud Williams]

Caymen,

You do know that Henry Ford had ties to Communists,

he did provide a good living for his workers, but

the unions these days are way overboard when they negotiate

their contracts.

I would like to see, instead of bailouts, let them turn into

employee run business like AVIS and others.

If the unions think they can turn a profit, let them

buyout a major stake in these companies.



As far as the railroads go, AMTRAK is not the way to run a railroad,

CSX and others are doing a good job, but it's a shame that we didn't invest more

into the rail system along side the interstate highway system in the 20's thru

the fifties. We could have had a nice system. America got caught up in the

Car craze, which is ok, but taking a Train across country doing 200-300 mph

would have been pretty cool as well.

 

[Travis Munday]

Employee run business? Socialism isn't so bad then, eh?

 

[Tom Schindler]

You do know that Henry Ford had ties to Communists,

Yea, so what is your point? The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

the unions these days are way overboard when they negotiate

their contracts.

That is your opinion.

America got caught up in the

Car craze, which is ok, but taking a Train across country doing 200-300 mph

would have been pretty cool as well.

I completely agree. Funny thing is that they have them in Europe and Asia.



Ironically enough, those same countries have much more government intervention than we do in this country. So, is government intervention a good or bad thing. If it is bad in this country and good in another, is it our government the problem and not government itself?





Tom

 

[Bud Williams]

Employee run business is not really socialism, the company is still

retained by the employees that have a stake in it's survival.



Government intervention ie regulations, can be a good thing and a bad thing.

Governement controling the means of production and the outlay of profits

would be a bad thing. Profit is what drives business, when they make a profit

and succeed, the government should not be allowed to take those profits and distribute

them willy-nilly, that is socialism.



Corporate tax rates are the 2nd highest in the world, this hampers

profitablility in our economic system, we need to look at Ireland

which is booming, how, by lowing it's taxes on business.

that's why companies are moving out of Calif ...



FAIR TAX is a great start.

 

[Tom Schindler]

FAIR TAX is a great start.

I agree.



Unfortunatly, I do not think that will ever happen.



I think our system is broke, plain and simple. We compete in a world market where the competition is paid to design and build things. Those companies can sell those items with an unfair advantage anf then we bash the American companies for not keeping up with the competition. I also believe some government intervention is a good thing.



Ultimatly, I feel we hae been programed to think unions are bad and non-union is the only way to go. I feel it is a ploy to put us back in the early 1900's where the common man could not own anything of real value.



People like to be rewarded for doing a good job. High unemployent is good for business owners. When we have low unemployment rates, employers must scramble for workers and want the ability to hire illegals to do the work. Supply and demand is a wonderful thing.



You must take the good AND the bad. It is a two edge sword. It is like a union contract. The same rules that help the membership also hurt them.



Striking is not the answer, but sometimes it is the only way to get your point across. I have never been one that felt "my way or the highway". I do expect to be treated with respect. I will in turn, return that favor.



Don't ask me to make sacrifices if you are not wiling to make them yourself.



You show me that you know there is a problem and you do what you can to stop it.



I know a guy that works for a plastic plant. The owners kids are heavy into racing. The owner told them to never bring their cars to the plant "to show off". The old man dies. The kids drive the motorhome towing two Vipers in an enclosed trailer. Before long, people started demanding more money. The old man supported his kids to race. He kept it low profile. The employees felt they needed to help their employer "make ends meet". The employees learned that it wasn't the case.



A true leader leads by example. A "boss" is not a leader.



You lead the way and people follow. You boss people, and they fight back.



CEO's are not leaders, they are bosses. "Do as I say, not as I do"





Tom

 

[Bud Williams]

Good points Caymen.

 

[Scott Doughtie]

I wonder how many of those congressmen at the hearing flew back to the lame-duck session on a private jet and/or a govenment jet?