03 Sport trac 4.0 Eating Coolant

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Don Bailey

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Dec 13, 2011
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Location
Weaverville, NC
Just had a new 4.0 long block put in my 03 Sporttrac and I'm not sure if its just air that didn't get burped out or what but I've had to add over 3/4 of a gallon the first time it was low and was overheating telling me it was low and had to add a good 1/2 gallon again and have had to add more for a third time. Turned on the heater and there may have been air in the core. Not sure. With a 3.5 gallon coolant capacity I was wondering if over a gallon's worth of air is reasonable? Not finding any evidence of a leak anywhere. I do notice dense white smoke/condensation at start up. More dense than I've ever noticed on a cold engine being started when its real cold outside like most do during the winter. Goes away after the engine has fully warmed up. Would antifreeze leaking into the engine cause a dense white smoke at start up until the engine warms up? Any clues would help my sanity bigtime! Changed oil and no evidence of coolant in that. No evidence of oil in rad either. Thanks gents!
 
The white smoke is caused by coolant leaking into cylinder(s), most likely through head or intake gaskets. I'd start with a cooling system pressure check. Don't delay - coolant in engine oil will attack rod and crank bearings pronto.
 
Thanks for info. Guess I'd have to take it to a shop t get it pressure tested. Don't have anything that will do that. Its under warranty so if that's the reason then the mechanic that installed it gets to do it over.
 
P.S. Didn't see any coolant (if you can see coolant while draining it) when I changed the oil yesterday. Also didn't see any on dipstick the couple of times I had checked for that before I changed it and nothing in the rad when I filled it up the 3 times I did that. :banghead:
 
Most times you will not see coolant in the oil when a head gasket is blown and alot of times a pressrue test won't show anything either. Sometimes head gaskets will seal themselves as the engne warms up. What I like to do is get the engien hot and then shut it off, pull all the spark plugs and let it cool down overnight, in the morning have someone crank it over with the plugs out while you watch it and look for the cylinder that has the coolant flying out of it.
 
Awesome idea! Got in touch with the mechanic and he told me to bring it to him and he would make a warranty claim with AutoZone where he purchased the long block and to expect a week to a week and a half to flip it. I have been getting a #5 misfire P0305 and P0316 code misfire in 1st 1000 rpms and it always had cleared up after letting it sit and warm up a bit. I did take that spark plug out and it was wet in comparison to #6 and I actually believed it to be fuel but didn't smell test it. Now that you said what you said, I am gonna take that plug out again and see if its gas or possibly be just what you said it to be, coolant. The miss always went away and it ran smooth until recently when now it misses the whole time I or my wife drives it. I was assuming that the injector was leaking down and allowing gas to foul the plug after it sat overnight and when I started it that it burned off the gas that was there after shut down and then it ran fine. What would be your opinion on the misfire being caused by coolant and not fuel from a leaking injector? Thanks a lot for your ideas and opinion. :haveabeer:
 
Somebody also mentioned that having rear heat and air could be a contributor to the what appears to be eating coolant if that core was emptied when the engine was replaced. Never thought about that. :banghead: Will check that too.
 
DB,10/26/2013 18:01 ET



. What would be your opinion on the misfire being caused by coolant and not fuel from a leaking injector? Thanks a lot for your ideas and opinion.
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I don't really understand what you are asking. If you want to know what I would do I would make them send a new engine although. Who was the rebuilder of the engien you purchased from Auto Zone?



The ST does not have a heater core for rear heat.
 
Didn't see any coolant (if you can see coolant while draining it) when I changed the oil yesterday.
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If coolant gets in the oil. It will churn up and be the color of the center of a muskateer bar or a choc-milkshake.
 
Was just wondering if coolant on the spark plug would be the cause of the misfire and that thinking it was the injector leaking down was my mistake by having not smelled the wetness on that sparkplug. It is my understanding that PROFormance Engines was the rebuilder. The oil was not any funny color. Just a bit normal dirty brownish but not abnormally discolored.
 
Coolant in the cylinder definetely causes a misfire. It also causes the white smoke that you are seeing coming out of the exhaust. It's easy to spot smoke vs steam from condensation being that the smoke will not dissipate but lingers around whereas the steam from condensation disappears almost immediately once it leaves the tailpipe.



It's too late now but why did you go with an engine from AZ? For what they charge you could have had a reputable local machine shop rebuild it for less money and I hate to say it but you would have had a better product.
 
I recommend you draw an oil sample. As you say this engine change is recent you could easily end up in a warranty fight here. Sampling the original oil would've been best, but get one now. Many use Blackstone for oil analysis; I use and sell kits from Oil Analyzers (see link).
 
Not to be a dic but an oil sample would be about as useless as shooting pool with a rope. It seems pretty straight forward based on the symptons given that the engine is using coolant based on the the amout of coolant that has been added, the smoke from the tailpipe and the misfire.



This is definetely going to be a warranty issue but the issue is going to be did the head gasket fail from overheating or did it fail due to a fault from the engine builder. Who installed the engine is also going to be another big issues. Was the radiator repalced or sent out to be flushed? Was the thermostat replaced?
 
l1tech, I'm just relating on what I'd do if this were my truck. I smell a warranty claim fight here, and would want to have as much evidence as I could muster - just in case. A saying I heard years ago has stuck with me: "If it's not on paper it never happened." Hoping DB gets good resolution on this and that he'll let us know how it turns out.
 
Thanks for the good thoughts/suggestions guys. The radiator was replaced within the past couple of years so its fairly new. Not sure about the thermostat. I still have the oil that I drained out of it when I changed it yesterday. Just in case there is a need. The installer chose AZ due to warranty issues with Jasper in the past. He uses AZ ALOT he said and has a great relationship with them. Guess we'll see how good of a relationship he has when he goes to warranty it out! Went with reman instead of rebuild most likely due to 265,000 miles on everything. $4,700 out the door for the reman. Still plan to pull that #5 plug and smell for gas to verify it being coolant or fuel. Been in a meeting all day so haven't had a chance to get to it yet. Can't take truck back to mechanic until Tuesday anyway. As for the condensation, it spits out a fair amount of that. The problem is on the mechanic and hopefully it doesn't turn into a warranty war between him and AZ. Am hoping the coolant is not due to overheating or them trying to find a way to blame it on that to get out of it. Time will tell. Will come back with update as soon as I find out. :banghead:
 
Pulled plug and was a very tiny bit wet. No smell of gas. A trace of oil around perimeter but primarily at base and not around electrode. Sure hoping this doesn't turn into a warranty war. The thing was misfiring from jump. Mechanic installed a new O2 sensor almost immediately on the drivers side due to the misfire and that actually stopped it for a day or so. Then it was right back and his suggestion was to do the Seafoam trick in case it was a dirty injector. When that didn't cure it, suggested I try another can in case it was really dirty. Felt that was reasonable and did it. No fix and here we are. I'm doubting the coolant issue is due to the overheating because it was misfiring before I took it over the mountain.
 
You seriously need to find a new mechanic as the one you have now is uncapable of diagnosing your situation which is obvious by what he has done and told you to try.



I'm not blowing my own horn here but no vehicle that gets a new engine put in it leaves my shop with less than 100 miles on the new engine, 50 miles for a new trans. It also doesn't leave the shop until a full cool down period has occured after the mileage was met. I was taught that way years ago so I know I'm not the only one who goes the extra mile.



I can't understand how your mechanic can have warranty issues with Jasper. Over the years I have had 2 problems with Jasper engines and as long as you truthfully give them the info they need when submitting a warranty claim there will be no issues. We get $75 an hour from them for warranty work and they pay immediately. I'm quite sure AZ doesn't pay that well.



Radiator replaced within the last few years means absolutely nothing. It should have been sent to a radiator shop for a flow test at a minimum.



I know your just the guy paying he bill and these comments aren't directed at you, I just don't believe the incompetence of some people who call themselves mechanics these days.



All engine rebuilders install heat tabs on the cylinder heads and blocks that melt and fall off at a certain temperature therefore when a warranty issue arises they can determine if the engine overheated or not. I hope yours are still intact. Another issue that may arise is if they deny the warranty claim and someone tries to tell them that it has missed since it was first started, too which they are going to say "why did you pay for it and drive it away then"



One last question in regards to the reman. How do you know that the engine that they used to rebuild yours from didn't have 500,000 miles on it??



All done with my "what ifs" now. Let us know what happens and if you need any additional info or help let us know.
 
Thanks so much for your points. I really appreciate them. I think the reason he gave me the truck back so quick was that he had had it for over a month and I was bugging him to give it back as my wife was real upset that it had taken so long (her truck). The mechanic is somewhat a friend of mine (golfing) and he did want to drive it so he did and came to get me in it and I rode back with him to his shop and took it. I think me leaning on him is what made him go against what you said he should have done and probably would have preferred to do and in hind sight will wish he had.



Not real sure why he has had problems with Jasper and maybe just prefers AZ.



As for the radiator, not sure why he didn't check that. I do know that I had recently had it flushed and filled and there were no problems with it before the valve spring broke.



The P0305 and P0316 codes showed up and the initial diagnosis (using his $10,000 or whatever they cost computer) was the o2 sensor and he replaced it and that appeared to fix it. It stopped misfiring but not for long. When it started dropping the codes again, that's when he suggested the Seafoam before he had me bring it in again. And as I mentioned before, it was after that that the overheating started happening. Wasn't overheating prior to that. Probably because it was slowly draining down into the cylinder due to the leak being small initially. I really think the coolant issue was the initial cause to the misfiring from the beginning and was just misdiagnosed as a dirty injector problem re. the Seafoam attempt.



As for the heat tabs if this one has them, I too hope they are still there! Yikes! I would answer their question as to why I paid and took it as it wasn't misfiring when I took it. When it did I took it back to him and he put an o2 sensor in it and then the Seafoam attempt to clea0t it up. Does that not seem reasonable?



On the miles of the rebuild, good point. I don't know how many miles were on it. Didn't even consider a rebuild. The initial approach was gonna be to just rebuild the head and with the cost of that which wasn't cheap with the 4 timing chains that engine has, I just agreed to a reman with the not so big difference in price of pulling the engine to rebuild head and replace chains.



Don't think I could get a new mechanic now on this issue. He's gonna have to test his relationship with AZ and fix it. It was under his recommendation that I put the Seafoam in it and drive it so he has to take responsibility for whatever he and AZ come to agree on is my position.



Please comment. This is truly a learning experience.
 
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To add the above, if the initial cause of the misfire WAS coolant, would coolant on the o2 sensor contribute to the diagnosis that it needed an o2 sensor and that not be a reasonable assumption and replacing it cause the misfire to go away for a couple of days? Maybe the old o2 sensor had coolant on it in addition to the spark plug and replacing it cleared it up while the leak was small? o2 was the upstream one. Just a thought.
 

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