Bill V
Well-Known Member
Cruzrtwdgt, I didn't follow your analogy--Why are you coming out of a package store with a bottle? Why would you take the bottle into the store in the first place?
Texas arresting people in bars for being drunk
- Thread starter Dale Carlson
- Start date
Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Kyle,
that's another thing, these aren't police. They are TABC agents - the same folks that make sure the the liscenses are current and that the measures measure correctly. They are not cops and I don't believe (not 100% sure) they can make public arrests such as this. Sure, they have the power to close a bar for say, underage serving, cooking the liquor tax books and such, but I'm not certain they have power over Joe Citizen minding his own business. If Joe is drunk, then TABC should be closing the bar and arresting the bartender/proprietor for illegally serving.
grump
that's another thing, these aren't police. They are TABC agents - the same folks that make sure the the liscenses are current and that the measures measure correctly. They are not cops and I don't believe (not 100% sure) they can make public arrests such as this. Sure, they have the power to close a bar for say, underage serving, cooking the liquor tax books and such, but I'm not certain they have power over Joe Citizen minding his own business. If Joe is drunk, then TABC should be closing the bar and arresting the bartender/proprietor for illegally serving.
grump
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Bill,
he's talking about a liquor store. What do you call them up there in Minne'??
grump
he's talking about a liquor store. What do you call them up there in Minne'??
grump
Bill V
Well-Known Member
Oh. In that case, it makes more sense.
The term we use for liquor stores is--big surprise here--"liquor stores".
The term "package store" refers to a place that sells--another big surprise--packages. Places like the UPS store, Mailboxes Etc., etc.
The term we use for liquor stores is--big surprise here--"liquor stores".
The term "package store" refers to a place that sells--another big surprise--packages. Places like the UPS store, Mailboxes Etc., etc.
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
:lol: Atleast there is some logic in this thread 
grump
grump
Bill V
Well-Known Member
Yeah--except for whomever came up with the idea of saying "package store" when talking about a place that sells liquor.
Question--By the converse of that logic, do you refer to the UPS Store as being a "liquor store"?
And in case you're wondering--yes, we do park on our driveways and drive on our parkways...
Question--By the converse of that logic, do you refer to the UPS Store as being a "liquor store"?
And in case you're wondering--yes, we do park on our driveways and drive on our parkways...
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
uuummm - maybe it's because the bottle has to be "packaged" or bagged before you walk out in "public". :unsure:
It's usually what we call it on base too in the Air Force. At least us old guys.
Most folks call the UPS store "The UPS Store". :blink:
grump
It's usually what we call it on base too in the Air Force. At least us old guys.
Most folks call the UPS store "The UPS Store". :blink:
grump
Last edited by a moderator:
Jeff C
Well-Known Member
lol, they call em package stores here too. If I got arrested every time I was drunk in public, I'd probably be in jail for life Last night we had a party at my friends place to celebrate spring break starting. I was drunk off my butt, but we had a DD and she drove us all home and I paid for her gas. Now, seeing as how I was out of the vehicle at the gas station buyin gas, but was in public, should I be arrested for drunk in public, even though I'm doing the responsible thing (which, being in college, I rarely see people doing) by having a DD, etc, everything they taught us since 5th grade in D.A.R.E.? I mean, I have the little keychain that shows either green, yellow, or red when you blow so you know if you're legal to drive. I can blow red, which is .12 on the meter, and be perfectly coherent, not even buzzed. I guess I don't think it's right that this law seems open to interpretation by different officials. Some of my friends can't have 2 beers before they're fallin over drunk, but still technically legal, but I can drink a case and be good, mentally, but not legally.
Last night we had a party at my friends place to celebrate spring break starting. I was drunk off my butt, but we had a DD and she drove us all home and I paid for her gas. Now, seeing as how I was out of the vehicle at the gas station buyin gas, but was in public, should I be arrested for drunk in public, even though I'm doing the responsible thing (which, being in college, I rarely see people doing) by having a DD, etc, everything they taught us since 5th grade in D.A.R.E.? I mean, I have the little keychain that shows either green, yellow, or red when you blow so you know if you're legal to drive. I can blow red, which is .12 on the meter, and be perfectly coherent, not even buzzed. I guess I don't think it's right that this law seems open to interpretation by different officials. Some of my friends can't have 2 beers before they're fallin over drunk, but still technically legal, but I can drink a case and be good, mentally, but not legally.Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Jeff,
no attempt to say you are wrong, I've known folks that carried themselves exceptionally well after having "too many". But, just for giggles try something for me. I know you are a gamer so if you have any racing games, rallying, F1 types, do some time trials completely sober. Then do it again after a six pack.
I did my rally game one time and was amazed at how many ditches and corners I misjudged. There is a big difference between standing straight and being coherent and responsible compared to reaction time.
grump
no attempt to say you are wrong, I've known folks that carried themselves exceptionally well after having "too many". But, just for giggles try something for me. I know you are a gamer so if you have any racing games, rallying, F1 types, do some time trials completely sober. Then do it again after a six pack.
I did my rally game one time and was amazed at how many ditches and corners I misjudged. There is a big difference between standing straight and being coherent and responsible compared to reaction time.
grump
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Bill,
go to Google and type in "package store". From Cape Cod to Texas :lol:
go to Google and type in "package store". From Cape Cod to Texas :lol:
Gerald Pierce
Well-Known Member
I like the quip from Ron White about being arrested for drunk in public..... "I didn't want to be drunk in public, I was drunk in a bar..... they threw me in public"
Dale Carlson
Active Member
So it seems that some of the folks here think that it's OK for the TABC to take "innocent until proven guilty" and trample it into the ground?
Let's talk about intent. What are the intentions of the patrons of this or any bar after they reach an intoxicated state? Absent any "Minority Report"-type clarivoyants, or mind-readers in the TABC, I'd say they, or anybody else, beyond that patron, DO NOT KNOW. What gets me about all this is that the drinking nazis are ASSUMING that these (drunk) patrons will stumble out to their cars and attempt to drive.
What is the intent of most drunk in public laws? Unfortunately, though the law often defines the terms contained within, they don't define what the specific or general intent is. My feeling is that most lawmakers pass these laws to keep people from causing a ruckus or harm in PUBLIC - meaning (at least to me) sidewalks, streets, parks, and other areas within the public view.
Let's talk about intent. What are the intentions of the patrons of this or any bar after they reach an intoxicated state? Absent any "Minority Report"-type clarivoyants, or mind-readers in the TABC, I'd say they, or anybody else, beyond that patron, DO NOT KNOW. What gets me about all this is that the drinking nazis are ASSUMING that these (drunk) patrons will stumble out to their cars and attempt to drive.
What is the intent of most drunk in public laws? Unfortunately, though the law often defines the terms contained within, they don't define what the specific or general intent is. My feeling is that most lawmakers pass these laws to keep people from causing a ruckus or harm in PUBLIC - meaning (at least to me) sidewalks, streets, parks, and other areas within the public view.
Jim Reeves
Active Member
Public drunkeness is embarassing, infantile, and obnoxious. Drunk driving is wreckless endangerment at the very least. I think anyone caught driving under the influence should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In my opinion it is one of the stupidest things a person can do, and I think that anyone who sells liquor-by-the-drink is turning a blind eye to the fact that they are enabling this crime to happen just so they can earn a buck. However, you should not be able to arrest someone based on what you think they are about to do. If there are public drunkeness statutes, then by all means take the drunks to jail. However, you can't arrest a man for robbery just because he's wearing a ski mask. This is just my opinion, of course. I hope that I didn't offend any of you drunks out there.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
I get what you said, RichardL, but my point was that IF the establishment is there primarily to get around the law that makes it illegal to sell alcohol to a drunk person, than it seems to me to fit the general definition of a Speakeasy (the definition being an establishment illegally serving alcohol).
That isn't to say that all establishments that serve alcohol to paid members are speakeasys, but the ones that serve illegally would be (again, buy the definition of speakeasy).
TJR
That isn't to say that all establishments that serve alcohol to paid members are speakeasys, but the ones that serve illegally would be (again, buy the definition of speakeasy).
TJR
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
BTW, I am very familiar with the term "package store", and maybe it is mostly a NE thing, but it's quite common.
In PA all the "Liquor Stores" are state run and only sell liquor (no beer), you can't buy beer in grocery stores; for beer you have to buy it in the "State Stores" and then only by the case.
In PA all the "Liquor Stores" are state run and only sell liquor (no beer), you can't buy beer in grocery stores; for beer you have to buy it in the "State Stores" and then only by the case.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
kefguy says:
Nope, I never said that. Furthermore one of my pet peeves is when people make false statements about what I our others have said.
If we are to assume the bar is a public place, and there are laws against public intoxication then I don't see anything be trampled on.
I rather think that we have had laws on the books that haven't been enforced much in the past, and there has been a recognition that by upholding those laws drunk driving can be reduced as a causal effect.
TJR
Nope, I never said that. Furthermore one of my pet peeves is when people make false statements about what I our others have said.
If we are to assume the bar is a public place, and there are laws against public intoxication then I don't see anything be trampled on.
I rather think that we have had laws on the books that haven't been enforced much in the past, and there has been a recognition that by upholding those laws drunk driving can be reduced as a causal effect.
TJR
Keith McElroy
Active Member
According to Bill Ingvall: In Texas, if you are drunk and conscious, you are considered the designated driver.
Dale Carlson
Active Member
TJR,
Didn't say that you or anybody else "said" that. I was referring to the concept of law that seems to be reversed in the case of busting drunks in a bar. Seems to me that the TABC, and some in this forum, think that it's OK to bust those drunks because they MIGHT do something illegal and/or dangerous - which makes them "guilty until proven innocent".
In any case, I misspoke. "Innocent before being proven guilty" is more a concept for the courts to decide - not law enforcement officers. After some thought, what might really apply more is "reasonable cause" in busting those bar patrons. Would a reasonable person believe that patrons of a bar are there to drink? Probably. Would a reasonable person believe that patrons of that bar are drunk? Maybe not so much. Some are, some aren't. Would a reasonable person believe that these patrons are drunk AND have a car AND going to get in their cars AND are going to drive? Which is where we are with this thread...
Didn't say that you or anybody else "said" that. I was referring to the concept of law that seems to be reversed in the case of busting drunks in a bar. Seems to me that the TABC, and some in this forum, think that it's OK to bust those drunks because they MIGHT do something illegal and/or dangerous - which makes them "guilty until proven innocent".
In any case, I misspoke. "Innocent before being proven guilty" is more a concept for the courts to decide - not law enforcement officers. After some thought, what might really apply more is "reasonable cause" in busting those bar patrons. Would a reasonable person believe that patrons of a bar are there to drink? Probably. Would a reasonable person believe that patrons of that bar are drunk? Maybe not so much. Some are, some aren't. Would a reasonable person believe that these patrons are drunk AND have a car AND going to get in their cars AND are going to drive? Which is where we are with this thread...
Jeffrey Travis
Well-Known Member
It seems they did this years ago in a small town called Mayberry.
That damn Otis was ALWAYS in the lock up.
That damn Otis was ALWAYS in the lock up.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Kefguy says:
I haven't been following this closely enough to think that anyone in this forum nor the TABC are being presumptious in their actions or attitudes (in other words are arresting people for what they MIGHT do). I said, and continue to state, there is a law against public intoxication. If the TABC is now inforcing that law AND it helps to curb drunk driving, than I don't see it as an issue.
I see this akin to arresting people for owning guns without the appropriate permits as a good practice for reducing other types of crimes committed with guns.
TJR
I haven't been following this closely enough to think that anyone in this forum nor the TABC are being presumptious in their actions or attitudes (in other words are arresting people for what they MIGHT do). I said, and continue to state, there is a law against public intoxication. If the TABC is now inforcing that law AND it helps to curb drunk driving, than I don't see it as an issue.
I see this akin to arresting people for owning guns without the appropriate permits as a good practice for reducing other types of crimes committed with guns.
TJR
