Still Need Help on this problem !!!!!

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Bill M

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Oct 2, 2001
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Location
Bayonne, NJ
Still have big problem with first cold start up. Seems when the mercury dips down near 35and below my ST does not run correctly on startup for about 3-4 minutes. When started it idles about 1500-2000rpm then in about 15-20 seconds the idle drops to 500-1k and starts to run very rough. I can step on the gas and it will run smooth but when released it idle low and will start running rough again. This goes on for about 3-4 minutes and then presto-chango all is back to normal, nver to return until the next day. It sometimes throws the CEL on with codes 141 and 147. I have changed the MAF,IAC,gas filter,air filter,PCV, coolant sensor,cleaned the entire throttle body,checked for vac.leaks(none that I can find),changed brands of gas. this a 2001 ST - job1. Really hate to go back to the dealer..I need this one as it is getting the best of me and I don't want to give up......................:wacko:

.NEED MORE IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Not sure but the coolant sensor you changed may be for the temp gauge there may be a second one for the fuel injection . That would make sense way it runs fine after 3-4 mins .Second is not sure how you checked for the vac leak but you can use carb cleaner while the engine is running and spray around the intake manifold and hoses see if there is a idle change and sometimes you can even hear it suck in the vapor .
 
I believe this is the ST that has the vacuum elbow that cracks...

You cant see the crack until you take the elbow off....

Search vacuum elbow and the posts with pics will come up..

Todd Z
 
Adam, I believe I changed the correct coolant sensor but I will double check tomorrow. The one I changed sits directly behind the thermostat housing. I did check for the vac leaks as you described.



Todd, This ST is not the one without the elbow..



Thanks
 
When checking for vac leaks how are you doing this???



Did you try the propane method??

Todd Z
 
Take a propane torch, DO NOT light it, Run the engine and with the torch on, pass it over the hoses, connections ect. The gas is thinner than any liquid test and will be sucked into the engine and you will get a stalling or increase in rpms if a leak is found...

Todd Z

 
Propane method is real old school wow i haven't seen my setup in years . What it is bill a propane bottle like the one you use for plumping it has a special top it with a long hose you light the propane and move the hose around the engine when you come by a leak the leak causes the propane flame to change color kinda hard to explain in type years ago i knew some guys who set there fender covers on fire since it uses a open flame not a great way to find a leak . I have a electronic one that does the same alot safer
 
Todd, I'll give the propane a shot tomorrow. My first thought was vacuum leak but couldn't find one and I also wondered why the problem goes away after he engine heats up a little. Then, I thought the plastic intake make be cracked and expanding when engine got warm and sealed the leak. I checked again but still did not find a leak. I will try he propane first thing when engine is ice cold.Hopefully I come up with a leak. thanks
 
Brian, may be a leaky gasket too. maybe when I do another vac leak check arounf the gaskets tomorrow it will show up
 
And also the coolant sensor and coolant sender are different. They are listed one as a sender and one as a sensor...

Todd Z
 
Just looked the codes above are for bad o2 sensors.



P0141 Heated O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1, Sensor 2)

P0147 Heated O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1, Sensor 3)



If the heating element is broken or bad wire, it will cause the truck to run funny till the exhaust heats up enough to get the sensor into closed loop..

Todd Z
 
Todd my mistake on the codes .. It was 171 and 174... Hope you didn't go through much trouble looking up the wrong codes... Thanks :wacko:
 
Nope not at all...



P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1)

P0174 System Too Lean (Bank 2)



You got a vacuum leak or a bad fuel pump.... You sure you don't have that dam hose that cracks???

Todd Z

 
If the fuel pump was bad I would expect to have problems at other times too.. I wish I had the hose elbow that cracks. It would have been a cheaper and quicker fix then what I have been going through....I am not a rocket scientist but have been around cars,truck,boats etc for a long time. I cannot believe that I haven't come up with the solution to this problem yet. Oh by the way, I really didn't ever hear of the propane trick and like I said I have been around a while. Maybe it's altzheimers setting in @ 50
 
Ron... I may have to go to the dealer but I have a case of deep pockets and am still trying to solve myself. Once I remedy this problem I wil let you know. Hopefully Soon
 

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