Steelers win--with an asterisk

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Bill V, get over it. My god! I could care less if you were a Steelers fan or a Seahawks fan. I'm not blinded by my support of a team. I'm just tierd of people using the Officials as excuses to say why a team lost or won. If the Seahawks were as good as everyone thought they were, then they would have been able to score on EVERY possesion but they didn't. (then the bad calls wouldn't have mattered) OUR Steelers team was on the wrong side of some calls during the Colts game but they had scored enough times to overcome the crappy officiating. I didn't like the calls during that game but it happens and the team needs to move on and not dwell over it. You don't know anything about me, I'm not a Rothlesburger fan. I think he is a average QB and if he didn't have any running support he would be just another Stewart. (now that's bad to say) I don't think it took anything from the win for the Steelers. It could have just as easily had gone against the Steelers. So in short, give the team the respect and let it rest.;)
 
Stone says:
So in short, give the team the respect and let it rest.



Given that I am not really vested in either team, I guess I would give the Steelers about 3 points more respect than the Hawks, given that bowl game, because when you remove the officiating, that's the most they should have won by, IMHO.



And, when games are that close (and that one really should have been that close), ANYTHING can happen.



I didn't see much of anything I could actually respect Sunday from either team or the officials.



Sorry...don't shoot the messenger.



TJR
 
Just curious, stonemiser-- (And I'm not just asking this to be a jerk--I'm actually curious as to your opinions on these.)



What are your thoughts on the '72 USA Olympic basketball team? The officials changed the outcome of the game, the team has never accepted their silver medals in protest, and most of the American public (or at least those who follow sports enough to be aware of what happened) support them. How about you? If you're tired of people using officials as the excuse, you must obviously believe that the Russians deserve that gold, and that the US should take the silver. Good teams overcome officiating calls like that, right?



And what about the Olympic pairs figure skating from a few years ago, where the Canadian pair was initially denied the gold, despite a superior performance, by a French judge who decided before the competition whom she would vote for? The officials changed the outcome of that competition. If you're tired of people blaming them, then they should just accept that as well. After all, if they were good enough, they'd have overcome that, right?



Like I said, I am interested in hearing your thoughts on these two historical sporting events. Thanks!



--Bill
 
The two Olympic events were out-and-out fraud. For years the Soviets controlled enough countries and judges to have an influence (or else the judges were shipped off to Siberia when they got home) and they had better steroids.

I've been studying this for days now, the only bad call was the low block call on Hasslebeck which in the end I don't think made much difference.

Ben had the ball over. End of story. And if he didn't make it (I'm saying he did), then 99 times out of 100 they make the 6" they need on the next play anyway.

Locklear was holding. End of story. He had been warned twice before when they cut him some slack and didn't call it.

Jackson pushed off. End of story. John Madden can maybe sputter that they rarely call that, but a penalty is a penalty. Steelers got called for offensive PI too.



Holmgren did a lousy job with the clock. 'Hawks punter kept booting the ball into the endzone, giving the Stillers the ball on the 20 several times, while the Stillers' punts are dropping nicely inside the 5. Stevens caught a nice TD pass when he was open but the rest of the day he was dropping balls because he heard footsteps, knowing that he'd pissed off the Steelers and they were looking for him. Badly played game on both sides but basically the Steelers took advantage of opportunity and the 'Hawks didn't.

That said, I'd prefer the Stillers won 35-3 in humiliating fashion. Allowing 10 points is 10 too many.

My work here is done. Any more and I'd just be repeating myself.
 
JohnnnyO, whether the Olympic events were a fraud is irrelevant, according to the comments of stonemiser and others, as "good teams can overcome bad officiating." (That is paraphrasing, not quoting.) And, in the 1972 basketball case, according to the IOC, the Russian team, and their fans, there was no fraud, the calls made in the game were 100% correct--just like the NFL, the Steelers, and many Steeler fans (including both yourself and stonemiser, but excluding me) are claiming about Super Bowl XL.



So the question still remains--should the competitors in those two situations simply accept the calls of those officials--they're the human element of the competition, after all--and take their silver medals?
 
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Bill V, I do respect your opinion and by no means mean to offend you in any of my remarks. I'll take the time now to appologise if I did. I'm not that type of person, but I am a Steelers fan and they got no respect the whole way through the playoffs and then now the Superbowl. It does make me alittle crazy about this whole thing. So again I appologise.



With the Olympic reference that is comparing apples to oranges. Where is it that in the Superbowl those calls were blatant? Do you consider them blatant or human error? There is a difference.



As for the '72 Olympics, I was only 1 year old. I don't follow Basketball so I honestly have no opinion on that one.



As for the Figure Skating, as stated before, it was blatant cheating. Where do those compare to an official making a call on the feild when he THINKS he saw a penalty? Not something where they were PRESSURED by a country to vote a cirtain way. In this skating incedent, they did the right thing by awarding the medals the way they did. Actually I think they should have had other judges watch the tapes and rerule on the scores. But that's just my OPINION.



Official in the NFL are just human and are going to make mistakes. The sollution is to have 10 hour games so they can reply ever penalty call to make sure they are calling it right. Well that's not going to happen.



I'm also done talking about the Superbowl and just wanted to tell you my opnions on those questions you asked.



Is this the part where we do a group hug?:lol:
 
Fraud is different from bad officiating or the "human element". Besides, in the NFL you've got instant replay and nothing in the SB got overturned as I recall...and when they did F'up in the Stillers/Colts game they admitted it which is rare because it was SO bad and didn't even fine Joey Porter...but I bet Holmgren gets fined. I call the Olympic examples fraud perpetrated by the Commies and I'll stand by that. Also I believe that any sport that uses judges to score points in a subjective manner is not a sport.
 
stonemiser, I understand your and JohnnyO's stance on the figure skating--and because it was determined later to be fradulent, you're right, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. So I'd like to toss that one out.



However, the 1972 Olympic basketball situation is definitely a more similar situation. Since you're unfamiliar with it, here's a brief synopsis--The US and Soviet Union were playing in the gold medal game. A hard fought game, in which the Russians had a one-point lead and the ball with 10 seconds left. But Doug Collins intercepted a pass, went the length of the court, and was undercut with 3 seconds left--the foul was called, and he was awarded two free throws, which he hit to take a one point lead, even though the horn went off for some reason during the first second free throw.



Immediately after the second free throw, the Soviets inbounded the ball and failed to score. But one official had blown the play dead with one second left, because (he later claimed) he had heard the horn sound and noticed confusion at the scorer's table. The Soviets claimed they had requested a time out prior to Collins' free throws. The ref ordered the clock reset to 3 seconds, and then be replayed. The Soviets again inbounded, the pass was off, and the US again started celebrating.



However, the president of the international basketball association then came down to the scorer's table, and said that not all the clocks in the arena had yet been set to 3 seconds. So he ordered that the clocks be set yet again, and replayed for a third time. This time, the pass went three-quarters court to a Soviet player, who blatantly plowed through the two American players guarding him (with no foul called either way), and put the layup in to win the game.



The US filed a protest, which was denied. The team then decided not to accept their silver medals--they still sit in a vault somewhere, unclaimed (I think in Switzerland). Most basketball fans throughout the US generally felt and continue to feel this was a complete miscarriage of justice, that the team was right to not accept the medals, and still refuse to recognize the Russians as the legitimate gold medal winners. However, the IOC and FIBA (basketball's international governing body) stand behind the results, and claim everything was done correctly. Most Russian basketball fans to this day say their team was the legitimate champions, and that the US reaction is yet another example of poor American sportsmanship. Most basketball fans in other countries acknowledge that the US has legitimate complaints, but are torn, some saying that's the way officiating in sports go and feeling the Russians are the legitimate gold medal team, but most feeling that the game was over in one of the first two runs of the 3 seconds and the US is the legitimate gold medal team.



Like I said, LOTS of similarities to this situation--the NFL is reacting very much the way the IOC and FIBA did, turning their backs on any claims of injustice; the Seahawks and their fans are acting very much like the Americans; the Steelers and their fans are acting very much like the Soviets (and I'm not making any political insinuations here--I'm just referring to the Russians' responses to the game, and to the American reactions); and the rest of America is acting very much like the rest of the world did.



I wish I had a link to video of the last few minutes of the game to show you, and let you make your own decision on it--but I suspect that after viewing it, you'd feel very much like Seahawk fans are now. And then maybe you might be able to understand why they're so disgusted by what happened Sunday.



--Bill



And no group hugs--you're an OK guy in my book, but not in that way. :lol:
 
I don't remember the specifics of the 1972 Olympics (other than Muslims kidnapping and killing Israeli athletes, but that's another thread), but the Olympics were so political when the Soviets and their Eastern Europe buds were in that there was so much blatant fraud it wasn't funny. If you had say, one ref from Yuguslavia and one from Romania then no blood no foul as far as the Soviet players go.

Like I said, I've been reviewing the SB for days. The flag on Hasslebeck may have been wrong but all the other questionable calls that went the Steelers' way turned out to be correct. The Seahawks and fans just can't get over that they got beat by the Stillers "B" game because they showed up with their "C" game.

Mike Holmgren has been named "Today's Girl" by Maximonline.com.
 
JohnnyO,



I too have been reviewing this game. We have been watching the replays and looking at stills combined with the various angles. Yes, some calls could have gone either way. What I have trouble with are the calls that didn't take place.



Did they cost the Seahawks the game? That's a tough question to answer. Did the Seahawks really come with their "c" game as you state? Hardly.



Kevin Hench shows you just how this game truly came down to the flags, non-flagged penalties, and the lack of consistency in the review booth. See <a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5311792" target="_blank">Seahawks won everything but the game</a>



Hench illustrates how the Seahawks beat the Steelers on every aspect of the game (statistically), Total yards, turnovers, 1st downs, etc. The ONLY area where Pittsburgh had an edge was in the penalty department.



The scrutiny of the Roethlisberger TD (inside the 2:00 window) was reviewed. The Jackson TD was not. The offsides (consecutive) that led to the phantom Locklear holding call...negating a reception at the 1 by Stevens. The sack (two Steeler D players were completely across the LoS prior to the ball moving). The 4th Q timeout 2 seconds after the playclock ran out.



<img src="http://www.zjstech.net/~library/1971/D-Jack-TD-2nd-Q_BLG.jpg">

<img src="http://www.zjstech.net/~library/1971/D-Jack-TD-2nd-Q-combo.jpg">



All we wanted was an equal playing field. The Steelers were clearly outgunned. Outclassed. The Hawks imploded in the final drives of both halves (clock management was poor at best).



 
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well Congrats to both teams for even getting to go :)





ps: I enjoyed the game, Happy for the Steelers...happier for me 'cause I won in one of 3 SB pools I was in for the 2nd quarter score! ha ha!!



 
The opening of NFL Total Access had this exchange between Rich Eisen and Ray Lewis:



RICH EISEN: What about the Sean Locklear hold, in the possession before the Hines Ward touchdown? That would have allowed the Seahawks to have the ball down at the one yard line and maybe go in for a go ahead score. That was a big, big penalty. Do you believe that was a hold on Locklear?



RAY LEWIS: No, not at all. And I think the things we're discussing right here is, let the players decide the outcomes of the games. I mean, this was so one-sided for Pittsburgh and these calls that were made, it was almost embarrassing to watch for another player. To say...I fight that hard on three downs to stop someone from getting in. Then we're driving again, now we get a holding call. There are so many calls that were so biased, that you really have to slow down to really say, you know what: this is sad. When you know how hard they prepared and know what the Seahawks had to do to get to the Super Bowl.





Yeah, this is just Seahawks fans whining. The NFL decides the outcome of games (or at least has a heavy hand in influencing them). The Pittsburgh players were the beneficiaries, not the contributors (i.e. They didn't cheat).



The league is mum on the officating. NFL director of officiating Mike Pereira generally breaks down controversial calls each Wednesday on the NFL Network, but that apparently isn't happening today. The league is instead running wall-to-wall content from the Pro Bowl.



So, this is what we get.
 
Yeah, coulda been a TD there. No matter, we still win by 4. Remember too, that Heather Locklear was indeed holding, was warned by the officials twice before they flagged him. He was holding because he was getting beat. Rothleisbeger was blatantly clipped on the interception return, no flag. Seattle got some breaks too. Steelers generally played like crap, only the Seahawks played like worse crap. The only reason they had more total yards is because the Steelers were taking away the deep ball and allowing the 10 yard dink passes underneath (which was still driving me nuts and making me yell at the TV). Example is, more total yards but they couldn't seal the deal for 7 when the field got short and receivers are covered and end up attempting a pair of 50+ yard FG's. Sean who?

Bottom line, poorly played game all around but the Steeler's three big plays put up more points than did the Seahawk's two big plays.

In my world, allowing 10 points is 10 too many and every series should end with the opposition punting from 4 and 12.

Seattle played in a weak division of the weaker conference, which pumped up their record and made them them and their fans think they were better than they really are. Spent most of the season beating up on teams with losing records and when they played anyone with a winning record it was either a loss or a narrow victory.

Believe what you want to believe.
 
JohnnyO-

"Believe what you want to believe" is so true.



There is no "coulda been a TD there". That IS a TD. Holding? There was no holding.



This is holding, according to the official NFL rulebook:



" 2. A runner may ward off opponents with his hands and arms but no other player on offense may use hands or arms to obstruct an opponent by grasping with hands, pushing, or encircling any part of his body during a block. Hands (open or closed) can be thrust forward to initially contact an opponent on or outside the opponent’s frame, but the blocker immediately must work to bring his hands on or inside the frame.



Note: Pass blocking: Hand(s) thrust forward that slip outside the body of the defender will be legal if blocker immediately worked to bring them back inside. Hand(s) or arm(s) that encircle a defender—i.e., hook an opponent—are to be considered illegal and officials are to call a foul for holding.



Blocker cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an opponent in a manner that restricts his movement as the play develops. "



Show me where Locklear held. You can't, there was NO hold.



Contiue to believe that the Seahawks were the worse team if you want, but know that on Sunday, the better team walked away without the trophy.
 
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Looks like he has his arm wrapped up under Haggan's arm pretty good to me.
 
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Johnny,



Love that you are defending your boys to the end. I understand. Difficult to think that they were handed the game.



But when the a HUGE majority of fans across this country (i.e. not Seahawk fans) are disgusted by the lopsided flag-throwing...it is far more than the Steelers simply getting 3 solid plays.



Hench outlines very succinctly that the Hawks had the advantage on every statistic except one...penalties. You can watch that game with scrutiny and see that on almost every Steelers' offensive series there was a blatant hold (like the gross hold on the Parker 75-yd un - Bryce Fisher was held). The Seahawks had excellent pass protection on almost every offensive series. Hasslebeck had crazy time in the pocket. You could watch his beard grow as he stood there. Lockelear and Jones were manhandling the Dline. THey were killing the blitzes (save for a few). The only way the Steelers got to him was to be offsides (not called) , which they were on consecutive plays...culminating in a sack then a pick (everyone thought it was a free-play). Then, the refs flagged Hass for an illegal block when he was making a LEGAL tackle. You have got to be kidding me.





Now there is starting to be talk of this game being connected with the Tocchet scandal. This SB set a new record for dollars bet in Vegas. Jim Rome is hinting at a link between this game and Vegas (and the mob)..."could referees be gotten too?"



I know that's a reach...but it ain't out of the question.



If so many people see this game as a such a HUGE question mark...then you can't look so blindly at the Steelers' victory. You have to shed some of your bias for a moment.

 
Johnny...some local news source shot a clean video of it from the end zone. He got the TD.



This game is tainted. Steelers got a gift.
 
Johnny, I must say, that was very big of you to actually post that link to the still shots of the Jackson touchdown. It shows him so clearly having one foot down, one hitting the pylon, and the football secured. Thank you for supporting our cause.



As those shots say themselves--"what part don't you understand?"
 
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