Rear Ended Again Tonight - Hit and Run - Illegal Alien

[Alan Peters]

By no means am I a small dude. I have an athletic build and could have taken this guy if he came at me. But I figured the cops can handle that. Its all recorded in the police report. The truck goes in on Monday morning. Everyone one tells me I'm lucky. But I keep replaying so many things I could have done. I printed a CWP application. I'm serious considering it, but I haven't talked about it with the wife.

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

If he had a gun, displayed it and shot the illegal in the foot the following would have happened if it occurred in Connecticut. He could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon ( just showing the gun gets you this charge), reckless endangerment, illegal discharge of a weapon, and several more violations. This would result in his loss of carrying privileges, possibly loss of all weapon ownership as a felon. The illegal could sue for damages and would most likely win. The alien displayed no weapon. He did not threaten anyone. That's how ridiculas our laws have become. You physically have to be attacked before you can start to defend yourself.



Our constitution starts with "We the people..." The rights afforded by this document is for citizens and not illegals. They, in my opinion, should not be given the same rights as citizens. I am talking about illegals, not legitimate guest in this country.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

MikeC said several things above:

If he had a gun, displayed it and shot the illegal in the foot the following would have happened if it occurred in Connecticut. He could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon ( just showing the gun gets you this charge), reckless endangerment, illegal discharge of a weapon, and several more violations. This would result in his loss of carrying privileges, possibly loss of all weapon ownership as a felon. The illegal could sue for damages and would most likely win. The alien displayed no weapon. He did not threaten anyone. That's how ridiculas our laws have become.

So let me get this straight. If the illegal in question didn't actually attack you and in the course of discussing things you shot him in the foot and then got sued and charged with all sorts of crimes that would be a BAD THING?

You physically have to be attacked before you can start to defend yourself.

Ah, that is the definition of "defend" isn't it? Shouldn't a gun be a defensive weapon, not an offensive weapon? Our should we simply shoot people in the foot to calm them down to prevent them from what they might do (which seems to be what is implied here).

Our constitution starts with "We the people..." The rights afforded by this document is for citizens and not illegals. They, in my opinion, should not be given the same rights as citizens. I am talking about illegals, not legitimate guest in this country.

Again, are you implying that illegals shouldn't enjoy the same rights as you or I; and in particular I mean the right NOT to get pre-emptively shot during a verbal altercation and then the right to have some recourse should that happen?



I don't necessarily have a problem with someone packing heat, legally, and making it known that they are in an altercation. It's a sad sign of the times, but as I said, I don't necessarily have a problem. I do have concerns about this "I wish I had a gun", "honey go get my gun" view on conflict resolution.



But then, I have heard the old saying: "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!"



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

No. Illegal aliens should not have the same rights as citzens. Treat them like the invader criminals that they are.

 

[Johnny O]

Keep it simple. Constitutional rights should not apply to non-citizens, both legal and ill. In Mexico non-citizens have virtually no rights at all.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

It is interesting that no one has brought up the fact that most "illegals" live in US States which were taken by force from Mexico during the Mexican-American War. From the Mexican perspective of history, this land has never been belonged to anyone, except for Spain and Mexico. I'm sure this is why the current President of Mexico is against any efforts to bar Mexicans from entering the US. From Mexico's perspective, they are simply colonizing their northern lands.



Read the wikipedia article below for more details.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Don't forget Bush's goal of opening the boarders with Mexico and Canada, and having a common currency and complete free trade.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Yes, it is working in Europe, so no reason to think it won't in North America.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Think it will help us raise our standard of living?

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Probably. Allowing the Eastern European countries into the EU has breathed new life into the old,s stagnant economies of Western Europe. When those younger workers moved into the cities, it created service job to support them, new housing needed to be built which increased real estate values, etc. The Euro is killing the dollar. Even the Polish Zloty is killing the dollar. My rent has increased $400 this past year, because of the falling price of the dollar.



Change is sometimes painful, but in the long-run it makes countries stronger. The diversity of the population of the US makes us stronger, not weaker. If we don't change, we will be left behind. We need to go back to our roots of open immigration and reduced social services. We cannot afford to continue handing out money to deadbeats. If they can't work, that is one thing, but to pay young, healthy people to sit on their butts all day...that is stupid and a waste of taxpayer's money.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

So an illegal alien should be able to be shot during a verbal altercation? That's the question I asked, specifically, and I have been told by two since that illegals don't have the same rights. So they are "fair game" I guess?



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin asks:

Think it will help us raise our standard of living?

That depents on what your definition of "our" is.



If we created an "American Union" with all of Canada, North American, Mexico, and South America the long-term effect would certainly be one of general increased prosperity and a standard of living for most involved.



Many here would look at it as a redistribution of wealth in the short term. That's a myopic, xenophobic way to view what would happen, but many would view it that way. As there were short-term freezes and even drops in wages for certain types of jobs, many would cry the common "They've stolen our jobs" mantra. However, as those previously at the bottom prosper, they buy more, and you actually get a "trickle up" (sorry, not down...and stop the peeing jokes already) effect.



It would help us...but many of today's "haves" simply don't want to see the "have-nots" prosper because they subscribe to the "scarcity principle"...which to them means there is only so much good fortune and prosperity to go around.



TJR

 

[Johnny O]

It is interesting that no one has brought up the fact that most "illegals" live in US States which were taken by force from Mexico during the Mexican-American War. From the Mexican perspective of history, this land has never been belonged to anyone, except for Spain and Mexico.

There was a war. We won, they lost. Sucks to lose, but life is tough that way. Get over it and stay in your own country.

Frankly the Mexican govt should be embarrassed that so many of its citizens want to leave but it's obvious at this point that they have no shame.

 

[Kevin Lang]

Are you sympathizing with the enemy? We may have taken the land, but Mexico agreed that the Rio Grande was the northern end of mexico, so they are camping OUR land, dishonouring their agreement.



The united states even purchased land from Mexico--the land which comprises the lower parts of New Mexico and Arizona. We purchased it for a then-heinous fee to build a railroad--the Gadsden Purchase--so we legally BOUGHT land which illegals camp.



Illegal immigrants do NOT even bring a useful service--their construction is shoddy, because if you can't be punished by the law, why follow it? My personal testimony to this was apparently too long for the forum to let me post.



If Mexico's politicians would get over grabbing all the money for personal gain and do something for their country, they could retain their citizens and move up in the world, as they have a wealth of relatively untapped natural resources, especially oil. But do they? No...and when corporations such as Wal-Mart try to make contracts for fruit picking and the like with mexican villages, the villages can't meet the demands of wal-mart's financial godsend to their poor hickvilles because all their working men have fled to crappy sub-minimum wage jobs in america, where they perform abysmal labor.



The united states can't even properly balance the "haves" and the "have-nots" within herself...add millions of people, and we'll be hosed. Before we could actually get anything out of South America, we would have to build up infastructure, and depose of all the corrupt politicians, drug cartels, and the general anti-gringo stigma which abounds down there, which means that we would be establishing an american dictatorship over them, a dictatorship which will be a sinkhole for trillions of tax dollars which probably won't see a return on the investment until the next generation has kids. A fruitless dictatorship. Is that what you advocate?



South America is still pissed at Uncle Sam bossing em around at the beginning of the 20th century--do we really need to give them more reason to loathe us?



Maybe it works in europe. Maybe. But that does NOT mean that it will work here. George Bush sucks on domestic policy. It's a fact.

 

[Gypsy me]

Again I am glad Big Al is safe, I don't think owning a gun and shooting the person would have been the solution. That would have opened up more problems for Big Al, had he done that. The illegal guy must have been somewhat honest to admit he was an Illegal, and had no insurance and to offer money for the damage he caused Big Al, I think the illegal guy ony grabbed at the phone as a last attempt to not be reported. (not defending the illegal guy at all, he was wrong but ...please note, he was willing to correct the damage he knew he caused)



Yes! Mexico is the coutry with a real problem, more corrupt than our government is. Known corruption too. They take and take from their countrymen/women, businesses, and give not much at all back to their people. If that stopped we would not have a big an issue regarding illegals.

I wonder why our Government does not get into their business more in Mexicos government business.??? Or is it that our Government does have something to do and say unbeknownced to us. I'm sure us average Americans would crindge if we only knew.



Heres the thing, if there was a less expensive, with not as much red tape way to become a citizen, the illegals would now be tax paying citizens. Our system makes it too difficult for the poor illegals to become U.S. citizens. Most illegals come here to work less paying, that maybe have long hours or is a back breaking jobs that the average Amercians will not work.



On the other hand, in factories, construction companies, shame on those employers for not assisting their illegal employees to become tax paying citizens!



Here is what I've heard, read or know of in AZ.

I know in Arizona this state is serious about verifying SS# and proper documentation to work in this state. If you go looking for job, you better have a pic id, ss# card and your birth certificate with you on your interview. (I take mine everytime I've applied for a job and got an interview)



This state has issued lists to employers here, for employees that did not have a match on name with SS#. The companies here are given so much time to respond and make it right. A local factory here lost ALOT of employees due to not being legal in the country or having proper documentation. (a major corp too) They lost workers, and are bascially having to hire from the ground up. The sad thing is .. in this town/county...hard to find employees that can pass a drug test. (hmmm yet the illegals that worked there did pass the drug tests)



I am not defending illegals, but I understand why the family oriented illegals come here.

...(not that many criminals come over here, from Mexico, not as many as you would think) We do get them but most illegals from Mexico come to earn money to send back to their families because wages are so much higher here than there and a little U.S. dollars still goes a long way there. (most of the crime in Phoenix, are CA rejects from LA. *no exageration there. I've talk to a few people give that options from Courts in LA, ...that were told to get out of CA or go to jail, so they come one state over to still be close for family to visit them*) How funny is that??? (not very)



With that said, I do understand the importance of national security in our country(some red tape is needed there) The link below is a good site for illegals, but GEE whiz....... how can they get to it if they don't have internet access or know about it. When I did the search out of curiosity, the first sites I saw were sites of people trying to make a buck. How would they illegals know which site is the most honest one???



The info is not readily availible, and I'm sure Mexico does not offer the info easily for folks there, that want to come here to live and work or become U. S. citizens. Check it out and just see what the choices a person wanting citizenship or visas have to decide on t

 

[Tom Schindler]

Frankly the Mexican govt should be embarrassed that so many of its citizens want to leave but it's obvious at this point that they have no shame.

Do you have any idea how much money is going to the Mexican economy by those the come to the USA?



Shame? What shame. We send our jobs to China and India and that is a good thing.



We send our jobs to China and our money goes to China. Mexicans go to the USA and the money goes to Mexico. Essentially the illegals are supporting the Mexican economy.





Tom

 

[Gypsy me]

Yes but the Mexicans, or other nationalities, that are illegal, do live here. They are here illegally, but do pay rent and buy groceries and funiture etc to survive here while sending money back home.

 

[Todd I 4]

Big Al, I see from your profile you're in Troy, MI. Are you sure the guy wasn't a Canadian? That border is quite a bit closer, and those canucks can be sneaky... (Just Kidding)



Actually, about 15 years ago my parents were rear-ended by an illegal not too far from there, Imlay City, MI. Broke my brother-in-law's femur.



But, when I lived in California, I saw a lot of those guys who were VERY hard working and just trying to make a better life for their families. I think the vast majority of the people coming here fall into that category. -- Which is not to excuse the criminal behavior of the minority.. I'm just saying the situation is not so simple as some make it -- ( e.g. US companies employing and profiting from them, historically lenient enforcement by the gov't because of all the companies benefitting)

 

[Johnny O]

What I meant was that the Mexican govt is entirely happy to have their people leave and send money back instead of straightening up their own house.

 

[Gypsy me]

understood JohnnyO my point was our businesses and gov still make some profit as well.