gay marriage

[user 62394]

I am really concerned about the freedom of speech/hate crime aspect. At some point down the line some minister or priest is going to be thrown in jail because they have preached that homosexuality is a sin or because they refuse to perform a gay wedding. This has already happened in in Canada. At some point, these agendas are going to clash.



Rocks

 

[EddieS'04]

Was that comment inspired by your God-given moral code, or did the "devil make you say it?"

TJR, do you take the bible literal as the word of God or only believe what suits your PC lifestyle, after you drop your kids at sunday school and go home for a nap..?

Furthermore there have been countless immoral acts commited in the name of God.

Yep your right, and they were wrong things to do. So whats your point.?

So without religion, without a God, there is no moral code?

Iam not talking about my beliefs as a Christian. Where do you think the moral codes of the worlds society came from. Various beliefs is where. I dont think the original tribes of this earth dicided that sounds like a good Idea. It came from spiritual connection of the creator. Mankind is a gruesome uncontroled animal. We are not as civilized as some would think. If we were we would not have these who is more political correct conversations on this board.

 

[Dallas Starr]

this thread is gay....... get it?

 

[Kevin Palmer]

MTURocks said;

I am really concerned about the freedom of speech/hate crime aspect. At some point down the line some minister or priest is going to be thrown in jail because they have preached that homosexuality is a sin or because they refuse to perform a gay wedding. This has already happened in in Canada. At some point, these agendas are going to clash.

I am not saying this wont happen as I am sure it will, but it will be on a VERY SMALL scale when this does happen.



Not to REALLY stir the hornets nest but,,,,

As a general rule Catholic preachers from many many years had preached the homosexuality was wrong, as well as child abuse (sexually speaking) and things to this nature. Then, not too long ago we had the HUGE scandal where the preachers had molested THOUSANDS of boys (and girls I assume) and they pretty much got away with it.



So do you think they will send preachers to jail that preach against the same sex marriage????

I do not. They are above the law and worse than that, the church protects them from the very thing they preach against....

 

[Jeff C]

So without religion, without a God, there is no moral code?



I'm a Christian and even I don't believe that.

So you are saying that without religion and god, there is a moral code? Because if you are, and you are saying that some things are fundamentally right or wrong, then you are saying that "god's rules" are based on some power or scale that is above him...



*kicking the hornet's nest on the ground*



edit: Oh, and gay marriage doesn't bother me, I just don't want it flaunted in front of me 'because they can', just the same, I don't want a hetero couple sucking each other's faces in front of me either.

 

[TomT]

Like Kinky says, they deserve to be just as miserable as the rest of us.

 

[Alan Peters]

I just don't get it. I turn on the news and I see a bunch of queers kissing and hugging, slapping each other on the butts. My wife asked me, why is this news? I guess queers get better coverage than man/woman married couples.......

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fast Eddie asked

TJR, do you take the bible literal as the word of God

Nope, I don't. I hope that isn't your "true Christian" litmus test.



God is infallible and all-powerful I think we would both agree. If the Bible is his literal word then it also has to be inerrant (without error) due to this infallability. Yet the Bible has errors and contradictions. If his intent were that it be the literal word, and he is all powerful, seems to me there would be a better way for him to get out the literal word than to hand it down through Dead Sea Scrolls that must be translated and interpreted, and then pervade that translated/interpreted word through the world's longest "telephone game".



Go read about the history of the Bible, how it was assembled, what parts were omitted. Fascinating stuff.



As for moral codes, there are many "religions" that don't necessarily include the idea of a creator, but have philosophy that defines how to live ones life well, morally. A moral code doesn't necessarily require a god/creator to be defined.



For just a few Bible errors/contradictions, see the link below:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Jeff C asks:

So you are saying that without religion and god, there is a moral code? Because if you are, and you are saying that some things are fundamentally right or wrong, then you are saying that "god's rules" are based on some power or scale that is above him...

Yes, I am saying that without a god there can be a moral code.



Yes, I am saying that a godless man, one that has never known a god, can live a moral life, not even knowing they are doing so. Now, the debate could be that maybe God is intervining in that person's life without him even knowing it.



Marriage is a great example. The Bible both defines and sponsors marriage as the appropriate way...as pleasing to God and to further God's purposes. Yet, marriage, for all its symbolism and dogma is really nothing more than monogamy along with a parternship in raising children. In nature, we call this same thing "mating", or "pair-bonding". It happens in many animals in nature, animals that don't follow a God. Maybe it is God's plan and his order, but a lion doesn't know God.



Linked is a good article on the very subject which seems to give fair and balanced opinion (IMHO) on both sides:

 

[Tom Schindler]

I just wish the Government should abolosh marriage. The government should only be permitted to issue a "civil union licence" that says two people are government recognized to be partners in life.



Marriage should only remain a word used by the common people.



Both sides should be happy. The religious people should be happy that two queers are not getting married and the government is happy to get the licence fees.





Tom

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I don't care if they have Civil Unions. Marriage however is different. Marriage is a term that has a definition, a standard and a moral code to it. Marriage is based on an XX and an XY becomming a mating pair and having xx's and xy's to populate the world. Even if the XX and the XY cannot spawn xx and xy, they are still XX and XY, a mating pair.



XX and XX are not a mating pair. XY and XY are not a mating pair. They can "unionize" but that's really about it. This IS NOT about tax benefits. This IS NOT about medical advantages. This IS NOT about retirement and other benefits. All of those can be covered by will's and power's of attourney. This is strictly about using a Secular-Progressive system to take a non-secular concept and destroy it for their own gain or ritualistic pleasure.



The homosexual community would be accepted much more than they are if they would act "normal" by and large like heterosexual couples do. You do not see flambouyant Heterosexual parades. You do not see (by and large) heterosexual couples getting hot an heavy at a baseball game.



This is not to say ALL homosexuals behave this way, but, just as with Catholic preists, and the religion of Islam, the few bad eggs spoil the whole bunch. However, at least the Catholics have taken steps in recent years to change the status quo.



Wither or not you take the bible "literally", the cities of Soddam and Gohmorrah were detroyed due to their wicked way, most notibly men lieing with men as a man lies with a woman. Hence where we get the word Soddamy. Now how the cities were destroyed is a point of contention, however, make no mistake, they were destroyed due to the favor of God being striken from them. The citizens were acting in a way that brought great displeasure to God.



Just as with murder, stealing and lying, homosexuality is a sin. There are no "small" sins or "white lies". All sins are the same level. All sins bring separation from God and only repentance can restore the relationship. I do believe in God. I do believe that God's love is not changed by sin, but sin allows the enemy a foothold into your life. The enemy (Satan) then brings death, loss and destruction with him.



Does homosexuality preclude anyone from getting to heaven? No. I don't believe so. The only way in is through Jesus Christ and beliveing and accepting that he died for our sins. However, I do believe that a "saved" person knows that homosexuality is an affront to God and will change the abhorrant behavior. It happens. It happens regularly. Homosexuality is a choice.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I just wish the Government should abolosh marriage. The government should only be permitted to issue a "civil union licence" that says two people are government recognized to be partners in life.



Marriage should only remain a word used by the common people.



Both sides should be happy. The religious people should be happy that two queers are not getting married and the government is happy to get the licence

I'll agree to a point.

 

[TomT]

XY and XY are not a mating pair.

I thought that's where lawyers came from?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

*I AGREE WITH CAYMEN!*



When our government started recognizing marriage AND established benefits related to marriage it, IMHO, violated our Constitution (congress shall pass no laws...).



If we got the govt out of the marriage business, re-wrote our tax codes accordingly, and paved the way for companies and laws to recognize civil unions rather than true marriage as their definition for qualifications/entitlements, then all would be much better.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

R Shek, if marriage is a holy thing defined by moral code, should it be sanctioned, sponsored and pushed by our govt? Doesn't that have our govt doing the job of the church?



TJR

 

[Frank screwyourednecks]

The only reason that California has passed this legislation, is the fact that the Gay community votes in a bloc. If you stick together (voting) you can get what you want. Politicians always want to take care of thier base, instead of what is good for the MAJORITY. Is there any way possible that the state of California is populated with over 50 percent Gay/Lesbian people? No. The majority should rule. Things need to change people!!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

R Shek says:

This is not to say ALL homosexuals behave this way, but, just as with Catholic preists, and the religion of Islam, the few bad eggs spoil the whole bunch. However, at least the Catholics have taken steps in recent years to change the status quo.

Using the Catholic Church as an example of an org that has taken a "step in the right direction" isn't very helpful to your overall case of saying that gays should clean up their act....IMHO.



Heard a great joke this weekend about wrestling moves....half Nelson, full Nelson, Father Nelson...that last one is a position you don't want to see.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

This is strictly about using a Secular-Progressive system to take a non-secular concept and destroy it for their own gain or ritualistic pleasure.



The homosexual community would be accepted much more than they are if they would act "normal" by and large like heterosexual couples do. You do not see flambouyant Heterosexual parades. You do not see (by and large) heterosexual couples getting hot an heavy at a baseball game.

Is it "normal" for two people, a man and a woman to get married and have children, grow old, have grandchildren, and then die?



Why are there more abnormal families in our society? A man and a women get married, have a child, then get divorced. That man and women marry another person of the opposite sex and have more children. Pne child could be living in a fmaily with one half brother, one half sister, and a couple step siblings.



If the latter is more common, would that not say it is normal that divorce happens and it is abnormal for a couple to remain devoted to each other? We can not look at the animal kingdom as an example of what is right and wrong in that aspect. Some animals mate for life while others mate once then find another mate. Other amimals mate with more than one mate during a season. Some animals work together to raise thier young while others leave and let the female, or male, raise the young.



Before we say that only humans have sex for pleasure and intamacy, there are animals out there that also do that too.





Tom



p.s. There is a breed of monkey that will have sex with each other, M+F, M+M, and F+F.

 

[Les]

R Shek, you are clueless...When was the last time you saw a couple of guys making out at a baseball game ??? And you think that a homosexual can "change" their behavior ??? They did not "choose" to be gay, they are genetically predetermined to be gay. Being gay is not a choice. Where do you come up with this crap...

 

[user 62394]

Well, said R Shek.



Rocks