A good video about a Canadian couple's experience w/single payer healthcare

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So far, I'm seeing nothing but favorable comments from our Canadian members. I appreciate the information and hope there is more. Thanks for the good information.



'07 ST:D
 
07 ST



There are bound to be a few horror stories from people's experience with the health care system up here. But I don't think there is any truly accurate way to assess which system is better. I think that some sort of hybrid between both private and public health care systems would be most beneficial but there are also problems inherent in any sort of design like that.



My most recent trip to the ER cost me $0 and I walked away with all the bandage supplies I needed for a few weeks. They also offered to send a nurse to my home to change my dressings free of charge. I had to wait a good hour or more before I was seen, but it wasn't so bad (except having to deal with my nagging suspicion that everyone else in the waiting room could potentially have H1N1).
 
I think that some sort of hybrid between both private and public health care systems would be most beneficial



And that's what's going to happen in the end. There will probably be some sort of exchange or cooperative formed that will offer coverage for the uninsured. Rates will probably be based on a prorated sliding scale tied to income. People whose incomes are low enough will qualify for free coverage. Contrary to popular belief by some of those on the right, there's a "no man's land" level of income in which people can't afford to purchase private insurance, yet don't qualify for Medicaid.



I'm one of those people. I'm a registered nurse who had to take three years off due to PTSD. I was on an EMS call and witnessed the beating death of a child. I'm ready to go back to work and am looking for a job now. However, for these past three years, I've been without insurance. I couldn't afford COBRA and didn't score high enough on the Medicaid grading scale to qualify for their coverage.
 
I had to wait a good hour or more before I was seen, but it wasn't so bad (except having to deal with my nagging suspicion that everyone else in the waiting room could potentially have H1N1).



That is nothing. My Dad had to go to the hospital and waited in the waiting room for 4 hours to be seen by a doctor.



This is reality in a US emergency room.





Tom
 
Caymen,



That is nothing. (re: 1 hr wait time @ ER)



I know. I was fine with it (of course realizing I wasn't the most extreme case in the waiting room).



Kind of raises a few eyebrows up here with regards to the 6 month wait times that these commercials are quoting.



PS > 07 ST



I think you should change the title of the post from "A Good Video..." to "A Video..." :lol:



Just kidding, I'm not as sensitive as that, but it is a bit misleading and subjective.



 
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There are breakdowns in every system. Sure there are people that have fallen through the crack in Canada's health care system. I can tell you nightmares about people with HMO's in this country. There is no doubt we need to reform our health care system in the US but let's face it, we have no faith in our government doing it correctly. It's a shame we cannot expect politicians here to act in our best interest.
 
the key to fixing our broken health care system is cost containment.

40 yrs ago when I entered the health field cost containment was the #1 goal.

Today it is balls to the wall with hospital charges, the Docs keep getting less.

Cases in point: Robotic surgury, all the rage today, Million $ machine, 200K yearly service contract, is neat stuff but the results are no Diff than non-robotic surg.

Scalpel blade costs 55 cents, patient charge $50.00.

Did a back case on a young lady last month, Hosp. only charge 550,000, insurance paid 200K.

12 hrs of surg, 10 titanium screws, two Ti rods, 4 cross braces alone cost 35K.

the list go's on and on, is just ludicris.
 
Don't believe all the scare tactics by the insurance companies and their political lackys. I see a lot of Canadian snowbirds in Arizona during the winter and they like their health insurance and think we Americans are crazy to keep the expensive and inefficient system that we have.
 
I have a few real-world examples that I'd like to share. My ex-wife had a disease that was eating her from the inside out. She got treatment for it under Blue Cross, insurance I had through my employer. While waiting for her to come out of the doctor's office one day, I talked with a guy in the waiting room that had the same problem. He was from Canada. He said that the same treatment is available in Canada, but he wasn't approved due to costs. The same high-dose Chemotherapy that cures Leukemia, was not approved for Scleroderma, even though the disease was hardening the inside of his lungs, slowly diminishing his lung capacity. He remortgaged the house and flew to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore once a quarter for check-ups/treatments. Otherwise, he would have had to receive the cheaper Methotrexate, which is not effective when the disease attacks the lungs. He would have died. I know my ex is still alive, I doubt he is if he ran out of money because Canada wouldn't pay for the specialized treatment.



Regarding drug costs, I am quite concerned about gov't control. My current girlfriend was designing drugs, working as a post-grad, that would prevent the growth of HIV in an infected person. The grant money provided to her department ultimately came from pharmaceutical companies, the same ones that charge a whole lot of money for their brand name drugs, before the patent expires and they go generic. If those drug companies do not charge what they do, then there is no money for research and development. That's directly from the mouths of scientists and professors at Hopkins. New drugs for curing diseases will not be developed without this money, and only gov't grants for drugs the gov't wants to invest in will be distributed. Yes, drugs cost money, but that same money paid may save someone's life down the road. If the gov't steps in to control pharma costs, our drug design programs will be stalled.



She now works in a pharmacy, where pharmacists are researching liability insurance. They never needed it before, but the current house bill requires them to modify prescriptions to reduce costs. Not just replacing name brands with generics, actually changing name brands and even dosages! If the gov't thinks you can get by with a less dose of Prilosec over a prescribed does of Nexium, the pharmacist will need to dispense the lower dose Prilosec. This is completely stupid, but reinforces the fact that this is about costs and not care.



I can't get behind this type of reform. I know that if times are tough and I have to do without healthcare, I may have to take my licks. But, if I can adjust my life to ensure I have coverage of some sort, I'll gladly pay up for it. My parents taught me that I only get what I pay for. If I was in someone else's shoes, I might feel different, but with the facts I have and the experiences I've been through, that is my humble opinion.
 
They never needed it before, but the current house bill requires them to modify prescriptions to reduce costs. Not just replacing name brands with generics, actually changing name brands and even dosages! If the gov't thinks you can get by with a less dose of Prilosec over a prescribed does of Nexium, the pharmacist will need to dispense the lower dose Prilosec. This is completely stupid, but reinforces the fact that this is about costs and not care.



That's called therapeutic interchange and it's not new. Hospital pharmacies have been doing it for years. The doctor writes an order for an expensive, new drug (because some drug rep offered him a trip to Hawaii if he wrote 100 prescriptions for it in a week). However, an existing drug does just as well and costs 90% less. The pharmacy will send up the cheaper drug.



I've been a nurse for nearly 20 years and have first-hand experience with therapeutic exchange. It works and there's nothing wrong with it.



The problem are laypeople thinking they know more than healthcare professionals regarding stuff like this and stigmatizing things they don't understand. What's worse are politicians and news organizations scaring the sh!t out of people by making a big deal out of nothing.



With my doc's permission, I do therapeutic interchange on my own meds all the time. Why should I pay $87 for Nasonex nasal spray when the generic version of Flonase for $7 does just as well? Why should I take Keflex for an absessed tooth at $7 a capsule when clindamicin at 30 cents a capsule will do just fine?
 
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Costs are out of control and that's the biggest problem IMO.



I was in my accident June 1st. After being extracted from the car and taken to the hospital, here's how the bills transpired from those 7 or so hours I spent after being removed from the wreckage:



The ambulance (Fire Dept ambulance): $600

The doctor in the ER, who's name I wouldn't be able to tell you: $800

The CT scans and x-rays: $700



All of the above I am pretty much okay with... but the below shocked me...



The hospital charge, simply for entering their doors on a stretcher: $10K +



Keep in mind, I was not bleeding profusely, didn't require live-saving treatment. I basically just laid there getting asked questions, pushed to scans, and the honor of my clothes getting cut off me. How the heck does that cost over $10K? Could it be that they knew my insurance would cover it and wanted to make sure they got something from someone? Probably, but it's sad none-the-less.
 
Jenn D,



I submit that it is capitalism, our legal system, and medical services provided without Torte reform (aka "limited liability") that lead to your experience.



What I mean by that is that once in the door of the hospital one would expect that the Hippocratic Oath of "do no harm" would drive the care you are given. Frankly, I don't think it does. I think today most hospitals are guided by a new oath: "Assume no liability"; and under that oath the hospital and doctors have to do a battery of tests to rule out any and all possible injuries or health problems. Still, hospitals and doctors miss things, and more often than we would like "shit just happens", but because you are or were in the hospital when things go bad you get to sue and the hospital and/or doctors have to pay. That's where medical malpractice insurance comes in.



So, hospitals and doctors have to give more care and run more tests than they otherwise would, and the procedures and care are inflated to cover malpractice insurance.



Now, without such a "system", you would have been in and out quickly, and probably with little charge. However, the risk to the hospital and to you would be increased. It would be more likely that you might have had an internal injury that goes undiagnosed. Sure, that's the long shot, but our system is set up to prevent the "long shot" from happening. Because of that everyone pays more, whether it be for a band-aid or for an apendectomy.



If the govt ran healthcare we can expect that there would be Torte reform and that would limit the amount that people could sue hospitals and doctors (and the govt). When and if that happens capitalism dictates that the quality of care, and the completeness of care WILL go down because the financial incentive to supply better, more thorough care has been reduced.



TJR
 
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How the heck does that cost over $10K? Could it be that they knew my insurance would cover it and wanted to make sure they got something from someone?



Hospitals, doctors or anyone else in the medical arena never collects 100% of the billing rate from patients, insurance or Medicare. These are only numbers. The true payout is much lower.
 
Hospitals, doctors or anyone else in the medical arena never collects 100% of the billing rate from patients, insurance or Medicare. These are only numbers. The true payout is much lower.



... Unless you don't have insurance. Then they bill you at the full amount and expect you to pay it.
 
Wanna bet? They get pursued by the courts and bill collectors until they pay. I used to also be an EMS administrator. We were relentless and got our money 90% of the time. One of the least enjoyable aspects of my job.



On the other side of the fence, I got behind on paying for a sinus CT scan that was supposed to be covered by insurance. The hospital followed me around for four years until I paid it in full.. over $2000. Just to note: If insurance HAD paid for it, it would have cost the insurance company about $400.
 
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I think the politicians are making the Healthcare reform system way to complicated. That is why people are reading things into it that do not exist, or not explaining it clear enough so people know what they are getting.



If there is a perception that the government insurance option is unfair competition, then the government should set publish their reimbursement prices and require that all insurance companies to accept that payment. Now the governement cannot have any unfair advantage, and any rule that the government uses in their healthcare plan will be used by the government plan...the only difference will be what the different insurance companies charge for their plans and the dectables, etc. Then the profit would be based on how efficient they can run their operation.



Having worked in Hospitals for many years, I can assure you that hospitals and doctors are actively seeking Medicare patients dispite the lower reimbursement. If everyone is insured and each service is reimburesed at the same rate, they will be happy with the payment they get since they no longer have to worry about trying to collect money from unisured patients.



I am a retired disabled veteran and I have no major complaints about the Tricare/Champus insurance coverage I have. When Humana took over as the Administrator of the Tricare plan there were a number of problems and clerical issues that were occuring, but now most of that has been resolved and they have actually been very helpfull in getting those errors resolved and getting the claims paid quickly.



I doubt that the government will actuall administer any government healthcare plan themselves. They will outsource the administartive and claim processing to some other company or group of companies by region to do all that for them. That will usually involve a steep learning curve and a lot of initial errors.



The thing that I do not like about the Obama plan, and this may or may not be true, is that everyone will be taxed for their employer based healthcare benefit??? So that means everyone with a Healthcare benefit subsidized by their employer will have to pay taxes on the portion of the healtchcare premium paid by the employer.... That issue has not been addressed nor has Obama mentioned anything about this in his Town hall chats??? He claims that people who make over $250K a year will be the only ones who pay higher taxes, but fails to mention if there are any items that will be added to the list of taxable sources.



...Rich



 
That's called therapeutic interchange and it's not new. Hospital pharmacies have been doing it for years.



I should have clarified that this is at a retail pharmacy, not a hospital. Retail pharmacists in my area are now shopping for liability insurance.



I'm curious - if the patient wants to sue the hospital pharmacy, is the pharmacist covered or does the hospital pharmacist get his/her own liability insurance for liability protection?



Why should I take Keflex for an absessed tooth at $7 a capsule when clindamicin at 30 cents a capsule will do just fine?



There's a chance that Clindamicin will cause my throat to swell up and cut off my oxygen supply. I can take certain antibiotics, but some I'm allergic to. It's hit and miss. I'd rather that I get Keflex, something I have taken before, knowing that I won't have a reaction to it, rather than take a chance with the Walmart Pharmacist dispensing Clindamicin, something I've never taken before. I will pay whatever it costs me because my health is the most important thing to me.
 
Wanna bet? They get pursued by the courts and bill collectors until they pay. I used to also be an EMS administrator. We were relentless and got our money 90% of the time. One of the least enjoyable aspects of my job.



Walk into any courtroom here and most of the cases are non-payment of hospital bills. Do they win, sure, do they collect, $10 a month. Are they paid in full, no. The people that use the emergency room for a doctors office do so because they don't have insurance, not because they like the service. EMS bills, a few hundred $$$, a little different than a $10,000 hospital bill.



On the other side of the fence, I got behind on paying for a sinus CT scan that was supposed to be covered by insurance. The hospital followed me around for four years until I paid it in full.. over $2000.



As you said, you paid, but you had insurance. If you had waited long enough, they would have written it off.
 

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