Yankees Win!!!

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Nothing wrong with picking up your team when they get interesting at all.



Making your team the sole reason for your existence is sad.



I'd say if you found yourself in the middle that would be a true fan.



I can honestly say that I'm not a fair weather fan, in terms of going from team to team . ALthough, we do miss a lot of games. The only team I watch are the Yankees and maybe the Red Sox in the event that they may win an inportant game that would position them against the Yankees. If they are in a losing streak I spend my time enjoying something else. Who wants to watch their team lose? That isn't fun.



 
KL, Bill V,



Most pathetic, IMHO, is people that sit in the anonymity of cyberspace and judge others harshly on their choices, when the actions and the choices of the judged don't affect the people doing the judging in the least!



Those people are more pathetic than zealot fans, or fair-weather fans...to me at least; and yes, those people DO affect me because they make me lose hope in humanity.



TJR
 
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Isn't there a lux tax? So even if the Yanks have a huge bankroll. or the Red Sox...whatever....doesn't that mean that they spend a massive amount of money to other teams so they can but better players? I've heard many commentators say how much this tax has helped the sport and how poorer teams could now afford top tier players and the games are better to watch in general.

The supposed trickle-down effect of the so-called luxury tax is one of the great falacies of the defenders of baseball's high-spenders. By spending enough on their teams' salaries to incur the luxury tax, the high-spenders are also pricing the top talent out of the reach of other teams, even after they receive a small amount of luxury tax windfall. This is why all the top free-agent talent always ends up in cities like New York, LA, Chicago, and yes, Philadelphia. Their coffers are deep enough to not only retain their own home-grown talent, but to hire away anyone that any other market's team has managed to develop.

I think this whole..."the Yankees or (insert any team here) won because they have money" thing is really stupid. They still get beat. They still have to play their hearts out most of the time. The Phillies still played well and won some. I just started watching baseball on YES network about a year and a half ago and these high dollar teams do get beat all the time. This year it seemed like the Yankees had a few losing streaks that wouldn't stop.

No one's saying that the Yankees win every game, or even every championship. Part of it's the nature of baseball. Some days you're hitting the ball well, but you're drilling line-drives straight at infielders for outs. Other days you're hitting poorly, but they're falling for bloop singles and infield hits. There's enough chance involved that it's impossible to win (or lose) every game. But that's also why in baseball, excellent teams win 100 games, which is only a .617 winning percentage. Comparing that to the NFL, that's approximately a 10-6 record, which in some cases has you missing the playoffs, even with the NFL having four more teams in the playoffs than MLB. So saying that the fact that the Yankees (or anyone else) had a few losing streaks during the season somehow proves that their money isn't affecting their winning percentage is ludicrous. They're still winning far more than other teams, because they have the finances to hire away the talent from other teams.



It's also ludicrous to say that it's not appropriate for people to cite the way the Yankees (and other teams) spend money as a reason to dislike them. I'd like to propose this analogy (and I realize that, like most analogies, there are some holes in it which people can--and likely will--cite as being reasons to discredit the analogy. But I contend that the main concept of the analogy is still valid.):



I know that some members of this site compete in various car or truck shows. Some have shown off pictures of their vehicles and their trophies/ribbons. And I'm pretty sure that for most of these people, this is a hobby, a labor of love, into which they put a lot of time, and whatever spare money they can afford. They do the work themselves, they spend their own money, they build their own parts, and they know their vehicles inside and out. Most of them likely have a list of 200 things they'd like to do to make their competion vehicles even more fantastic, if they had the money and/or time to do it.



Let's say that for some reason, Bill Gates suddently decided that he wanted to join the show. He not only wanted to compete, but he wanted to win. So he goes out and hires all of the best talent available in the field of car shows, and pays them even more than top-money to work on this car full-time. He buys many of the top show cars out there--even ones that weren't technically "for sale". Sometimes he buys cars or hires people because he wants them working for him, other times he does it just to make sure they're not working for the competition. He gives them unlimited budget--they can spend as much as they want on anything they want, so long as when the car show is done, Bill gets to carry that trophy home.



And when the show is done, sure enough, Bill wins the trophy. Meanwhile, the guy who makes $40k a year, dedicates an annual budget of $2500 to his car, and works on it every other weekend for a couple hours when he isn't busy raising his family, comes in second place.



Seriously, who do you think is going to get the respect of the crowd at the car show? Sure, Gates has the best car. Sure, his team worked hard to make that car. Sure, the car was the result of a lot of hard work and teamwork. But as much as people are going to admire Gates's car, they're still going to have no respect for him as a car showman, or for that trophy as being anything indicative of his accomplishments in car shows. And it's absolutely ludicrous to fault anyone in the crowd for feeling that way, or for having more admiration and respect for the guy who came in second through his own sweat and toil.
 
KL, Bill V,



Most pathetic, IMHO, is people that sit in the anonymity of cyberspace and judge others harshly on their choices, when the actions and the choices of the judged don't affect the people doing the judging in the least!



Those people are more pathetic than zealot fans, or fair-weather fans...to me at least; and yes, those people DO affect me because they make me lose hope in humanity.



TJR

But by calling those people "most pathetic", aren't you "sitting in the anonymity of cyberspace and judging others harshly on their choices"?



And your qualifier of "those people DO affect me because they make me lose hope in humanity" as being a reason you can therefore judge them is a complete cop-out. Maybe the reason those other people are judging others is the same as yours--that whether you happen to realize it, or agree with it, or not, the people they are judging are making them lose hope in humanity just as much as you are claiming is happening to you.
 
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I enjoyed the Little League World Series more. Those kids have the true spirit of Baseball,

Not some 33 million dollar a year player.

 
Bill V,



Yes, I am judging, but as you predicted, the difference (to me) is that I did at least claim how the judging by others affects me. You can call it a cop-out, but at least I gave a reason why it affects me.



You said:
...the people they are judging are making them lose hope in humanity just as much as you are claiming is happening to you.



If people are losing hope in humanity due to their perceiption of other people's degrees of "fanaticism", then that also would seem pretty pathetic.



There are a lot of reasons why I lose hope for humanity (and many reasons why I am encouraged, as well); but people's level of fandom for a sporting team never factors into it. It's simply NOT THAT BIG A DEAL!



Sports stopped being a big deal for me once I hit puberty.



TJR
 
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If people are losing hope in humanity due to their perceiption of other people's degrees of "fanaticism", then that also would seem pretty pathetic.



Says he who proclaims that the sad state of affairs today is due to people identifying themselves strongly with a political party or as a "liberal" or "conservative".



but people's level of fandom for a sporting team never factors into it. It's simply NOT THAT BIG A DEAL!



Sports stopped being a big deal for me once I hit puberty.



So simply because you don't see fit to judge people based upon their being fair weather fans, anyone who does is an idiot? I see now, once again you tried to entrap us with your whole Either-Or question. I think you missed your calling as an undercover cop.



A man's character is based upon his actions. His actions form a repertoire of behavior patterns, which are the very essence of character. Perhaps those who ride the fan bandwagon when the team is doing well are being judged for what this represents, which is joining the winning side after the battle is underway. Is a lurker who attaches himself to the apparent victor in a conflict to be trusted? What man of good character waits in the shadows and then latches onto the dominant force? The answer--no man of good character. Only a coward, a man of poor character, waits until a force is dominant before jumping on. Is a coward to be relied upon? No, and that is why there is judgment.



You may claim that riding on the bandwagon of a sports team does not qualify as something to judge his character by, as is honestly expected, but to do so would be to deny the very definition of character, which is determined by actions. Jumping on the bandwagon is certainly an action.



 
Bill V,



Excellent analogy imo. I disagree that a guy working on his car himself trumps hired out work in terms of respect. Admiration...yes. Respect...no. I can appreciate the hard work in any "car" regardless of who paid for the job. The guy that isn't mechanically inclined but loves his car or his sport should be respected. People mix admiration and respect all the time. Not the same.



In car shows, as in baseball, there are leagues. So, it is unlikely that Bill Gates is going to take his Trillion dollar car to your home town show and destroy you. If that is the case than that is the fault of the league not policing the level of competition.



MLB. They're all in the same league and this is the top of the top. They compete on the same and the highest level. The level you're talking about in your analogy would be the MLB vs a less than minor league level. It just isn't the same scale. It isn't their fault that they're not all of the same skill and quality.



There are teams that spend 1/2 as much as the Yankees and have equally good players and I bet there are some with almost as good or as good a record. As you said, there are so many factors and variables in the game. I don't think throwing your wallet at a player makes that much of a difference at that level. I'm sure it does to a degree but to imply that they "buy championships"...well...that seems a little extreme. Someone has to lose.



If it really is like you say...that would make the Yankees extra sad. Because they should all be Superman for the amount they pay their players. I would think they are better. The facts are, they are not. They get their butts kicked plenty.



Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems clear to me that just because they spend more on players it doesn't mean they're better. Perhaps they're better because they have better trainers, a more emotionally devoted legacy and maybe...just maybe...they work at what they do more.



I've never watched teams more devoted and hard working than the Yankees and the Red Sox. The Phillies also seemed to be top notch.



You do bring up a great point though. You have me thinking.

 
KL said:
So simply because you don't see fit to judge people based upon their being fair weather fans, anyone who does is an idiot?



Did I call anyone an idiot? Nope. Did I mean to imply such? Nope! If you think I implied such, rather than assume such and go off on a rant with that assumption why not simply ask if that's what I meant?



KL then said:
I see now, once again you tried to entrap us with your whole Either-Or question. I think you missed your calling as an undercover cop.



I wasn't trying to entrap anyone. If you don't like the question, don't answer it. If you want a different question, then ask it yourself.



KL also said:
A man's character is based upon his actions. His actions form a repertoire of behavior patterns, which are the very essence of character.



I would agree with that.



KL then said:
Perhaps those who ride the fan bandwagon when the team is doing well are being judged for what this represents, which is joining the winning side after the battle is underway. Is a lurker who attaches himself to the apparent victor in a conflict to be trusted? What man of good character waits in the shadows and then latches onto the dominant force? The answer--no man of good character. Only a coward, a man of poor character, waits until a force is dominant before jumping on. Is a coward to be relied upon? No, and that is why there is judgment.



Okay, now you lost me. Are we talking about taking sides in a war, ala the Axis and Allies in WWII (I think I have my sides right there), or are we talking about people watching sports?



If we are talking about the former, then I agree, such actions are what defines the character of a man. However, if we are talking about the latter, sports fandom, then I can't agree with you.



I say I can't agree because sports, or the actions of a sports fan, are not (to me) of the same level as war, or country allegiance. Sports simply aren't that important (to me).



So, to me, jumping on the bandwagon with regards to sports is simply not a big deal. It's certainly not an important judge of character, to me.



I look at the difference like this. A person's actions can define their character. I could judge a man's character by his willingness (or lack thereof) to help those in need. However, I wouldn't think badly of a man, or his character, if he looked the other way at an ant drowning in a puddle; but I would think badly of a man and his character if he looked the other way when another person is drowning in a lake.



To me, sports are the ant in the puddle. Not important...not that important anyways.



You seem to feel differently. That's okay. I respect that.



TJR
 
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A man's character is based upon his actions. His actions form a repertoire of behavior patterns, which are the very essence of character. Perhaps those who ride the fan bandwagon when the team is doing well are being judged for what this represents, which is joining the winning side after the battle is underway. Is a lurker who attaches himself to the apparent victor in a conflict to be trusted? What man of good character waits in the shadows and then latches onto the dominant force? The answer--no man of good character. Only a coward, a man of poor character, waits until a force is dominant before jumping on. Is a coward to be relied upon? No, and that is why there is judgment.



It's a game. This thread is entirely in the context of a game.



The game's purpose is to inspire and entertain. Just because you're not watching your team drag themselves through the mud while they suck, does NOT make you an untrustworthly lurker or coward. Not even in the faintest degree. If what your doing loses it's value to you, it is within your good sense and right to seek it elsewhere.



Now if this were a war I would think differently but it's not, it's a game.
 
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If people are losing hope in humanity due to their perceiption of other people's degrees of "fanaticism", then that also would seem pretty pathetic.

Umm...TJR....



YOU are the one who asked people for their opinions on the subject.



So you're going to request people's opinions...and then criticism them for providing them to you, or for even having them???

Sports stopped being a big deal for me once I hit puberty.

Based on some of your posts, I was unaware that had happened for you yet.

KIDDING!!!! :banana::lol::banana::lol::banana::lol::banana::lol::banana:
 
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In car shows, as in baseball, there are leagues. So, it is unlikely that Bill Gates is going to take his Trillion dollar car to your home town show and destroy you. If that is the case than that is the fault of the league not policing the level of competition.



MLB. They're all in the same league and this is the top of the top. They compete on the same and the highest level. The level you're talking about in your analogy would be the MLB vs a less than minor league level. It just isn't the same scale. It isn't their fault that they're not all of the same skill and quality.

I agree with you about the different leagues--but I disagree with you that all MLB teams are in the same league. Because of the way the free agent system is currently set up, realistically, about two thirds of the teams have become a farm system for the remaining third. Effectively, they're a AAAA league.



And yes, I also agree with you that this is the fault of the league for not policing the level of competition. But when the policing force itself is getting rich because of the existing system, you can't expect any true policing of the problems in the existing system to occur.
 
as TJR knows, i dont like either team. but i would have preferred the phillies. the hate i have for the yankees is unspeakable. a bunch of tools. i just love that the marlins can win 2 world series with a $35 million payroll. that speaks volumes
 
Now the Yankee Fans know what us Steeler/Pens Fans have felt the last two Superbowl wins and the last Cup win. It's sucks when your team loses, but God forbid you just say "Hell of a game, congrats.".:wacko:
 
I agree Yankee fans and the Yankees are sore winners....:p



Whats sad is a post like this is destroyed to swill in 5 replies...:angry:



Todd Z
 

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