WTF

[Thomas Rogers]

I agree with Jeff C on this one folks.



Like it or not, we have this illogical valuation of animals. The cuter and more cuddly the more noble and safeguarded, while the tastier and the uglier the more we are okay with cruelty.



This puppy didn't deserve to be killed in such a brutal way, but then again, neither does a chicken.



I'm not a PETA knob. Just the opposite. Just a person of logic. IF I were to get all bent out of shape about this then I would be a hypocrit the next time I bite into a steak or a chicken wing.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

This puppy didn't deserve to be killed in such a brutal way, but then again, neither does a chicken.

I don't recall anyone saying "because it was a dog..."



That jack@$$ killed an animal and laughed about it. It was not for food. It was not for protection. It was not because the animal was a threat.



Throwing a hamster or a rat off the cliff is no different.



This is not about throwing a puppy off the cliff. it is killing an animal, any animal, for no other purpose that because you are a d!ckhead.





Tom

 

[Ray McIntireJr]

The guy is obviously an idiot, whether he is actually a U.S. Marine or some anti-war anti-military fanatic, and will in the end get exactly what he deserves.

 

[Shaun Tucker]

i think this video is "what you see is what you get." I work in video editing, and while many things are possible to fabricate, I believe this is not fake. What you see is an ignorant idiot, which we all agree upon, throwing a stray puppy over a cliff. He probably thought it was a good idea because a) it had no owner and therefore nobody would CARE b) as i said before he may be desensitized to some brutal violence so this just seems so insignificant to that and c) because maybe he goes hunting on his spare time when hes not overseas and feels, unlike a lot of us here, that an animals life is somehow less valuable than his own..



Please do not get me wrong here, i dont mean to say that anyone who goes hunting values an animal's life any less than his/her own... but some people just dont get it and go hunting simply for the satisfaction of killing -- am i wrong?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



I agree the guy is a sick individual if he gets his entertainment by killing defenseless animals.



But then again, isn't that what many hunters do? Many kill only for the sport of it. Some game provides food, some game does not. That game that provides no food is largely hunted for the entertainment it brings to the hunter. Yeah, I know, I've considered the "for their own good" and the "thin the herd" reasoning, but let's not kid ourselves. Hunters by and large kill for the entertainment of it. I am NOT saying that is wrong, BTW.



I never said the guy wasn't twisted. However, those that call for him to be thrown off the cliff might want to consider what I have said as a way to "check themselves."



How, essentially is what he has done different than countless other types of animal killings we do on a daily basis for other reasons that we seem okay in justifying?



Countless animals have died for my pleasure throughout my life, most didn't have to, and most probably died in a way more brutal than this puppy. YET, I am okay with them having died for me. Since I am okay with it, I can't logically and without being a hypocrit paint this guy as too big a villian without actually indicting myself too.



TJR

 

[Gypsy me]

Having been married to a marine years ago. Marines are trained to kill. They are alledgedly "the few and proud." (even thought that slogan pertains to marines in Navel duty) They have a men among men honor and a duty to obey commands.



They are also suppose to have their wits about them at all times. He is in a war situation...obviously his mind forgot what respect for life means. If it was done to thin out abandoned starved animals....then by all means figure out a way to end the animals life without suffering any more than it has to.



In a war situation little things and I say little things sarcastically) such as this are allowed because IN SOME, not all cases the crazed immediate command thinks it's way to relieve stress... (tension reliever*IF you can believe that!) You would be surprised and disscusted to know things that go on in war time among ANY troop of ANY part of our Armed Forces that are considered ön the front lines.



but lets not forget that the Marine Corp's Mascot.....is a Dog.



Unless he was ORDERED by his immediate command....then

That marine lost his disipline and respect....you ex or current marines know what I mean.



If he was ORDERED....he was obeying a command and getting himself thru the aweful ordered duty.



IF they were in a patrol situation where they needed minimal sound, then breaking it's neck would have been the humane thing to do for the puppy and his squad...this marine was obviously not in any harm of the animal making too much noise.



He was in the wrong.

 

[Tom Schindler]

He probably thought it was a good idea because a) it had no owner and therefore nobody would CARE b) as i said before he may be desensitized to some brutal violence so this just seems so insignificant to that and c) because maybe he goes hunting on his spare time when hes not overseas and feels, unlike a lot of us here, that an animals life is somehow less valuable than his own..

Throwing it off a cliff and laughing can not be compared to your theory.

But then again, isn't that what many hunters do?

No. A honorable hunter will ALWAYS shot to kill cleanly. I have hunted in the past. I was trained to kill with one hit. If I am not positive I will kill it cleanly, I will wait for the opportunity to do so. If I ended up injuring that animal without killing it, I took another shot to finish the job. Throwing it off a cliff is not the next course of action.

I never said the guy wasn't twisted. However, those that call for him to be thrown off the cliff might want to consider what I have said as a way to "check themselves."

Do you want a freakshow like that @$$hole representing the USA. We expect things like that from uncivilized countries. Not the USA. Aren't we better than that?

Countless animals have died for my pleasure throughout my life, most didn't have to, and most probably died in a way more brutal than this puppy. YET, I am okay with them having died for me. Since I am okay with it, I can't logically and without being a hypocrit paint this guy as too big a villian without actually indicting myself too.

Please enlighten me on this pleasure.

If he was ORDERED....he was obeying a command and getting himself thru the aweful ordered duty.

Please tell me how a man that was ORDERED to operate a Nazi gas chamber should be held responsible for his actions, but is this guy was ORDERED to throw this puppy off a cliff shouldn't.



Just because you are told to do something wrong does not mean you have to do it.



Wrong is wrong!





Tom

 

[TomT]

Where is the line drawn? Just because it's cute and cuddly doesn't make it "worth" more than things that aren't cute and cuddly, does it?

Actually it does. As worthless as most dogs are today, man's best friend is at times very valuable to humans. Thus he is seen in much higher regard then the other species you mentioned.

However, seeing as how the higher primates, our closest link, don't have the same rights as humans, how can you possibly give them to a dog?

What rights? Do you want to give them the right to vote? Although they would probably make more intelligent decisions then half the Democrats that vote now, I believe you might have some opposition.



This story is like two weeks old and I have heard every controversy on the radio and in forums. One person said it best. Marines are always trying to prove their toughness. That's what this guy was doing. Although I'm sure he didn't originally plan on it being distributed all over the internet. Marines are known for their toughness and fortitude but not so much for they're intelligence. He will pay for his indiscretion when his commanding officer gets hold of it.

 

[ray moyer]

:angry:wow... think that was complete BS



someone should have pushed that idiot off the cliff after the dog!!!



just stupid

 

[Johnny O]

This is not about throwing a puppy off the cliff. it is killing an animal, any animal, for no other purpose that because you are a d!ckhead.

Right. And giving the anti-war propagandists more material. If said soldier would do that, it ain't a real big stretch to abusing or murdering civilians.

 

[Gypsy me]

Please tell me how a man that was ORDERED to operate a Nazi gas chamber should be held responsible for his actions, but is this guy was ORDERED to throw this puppy off a cliff shouldn't

.



I used him being ordered as a possible thought...but I never said he liked the order or wanted to do it or should not be held accountable, If he was ordered to do that..it is something he must do to obey. Marines always must follow orders. Consequenses or not..they have to follow orders.



I don't agree with it at all. ~whether it was for sxxts and grins, or an order he had to obey that came from an immediate command as a stress relief. It is wrong.



I agree with you Tom.





I do find it interesting that it is posted by American Resistant Movement. and just might be propaganda...did anybody read some of the posts/comments on You Tube about that video.



If you have never heard of this organization or don't know what American Resistance Movement is all about...here is a good definition: "'FF/ARM Members come from every race, religion, gender, nationality, and political affiliation. Our goal to unite all American Militia has been very successful. A council with leadership from each Militia unit is forming now in order to organize all units under one command.''



that is from them not me.



and I found this "propaganda video"as well... called "Why We Fight" and if you look at the other vidoes they obviously posted.... you can veiw more. Apparently they post these things to show Americans the injustices that all around us, something I guess they are definately against...lack of freedom and true rights ..They are against "New World Order" according to them.

According to them their goals are:



American Resistance Movement





U.A.F.F. / A.R.M. GOALS:



Restore The Constitution Of The United States



Force All Illegal Aliens Out Of America



Secure Our Borders With Mexico And Canada



Protect The United States From Military Invaders



Monitor All U.S. Government And Military Activity



Help Change U.S. Policy, Bills And Current Laws





it's interesting and scarey at the same time for me.

 

[Gypsy me]

^5 Dingo!

 

[Bart Adkins]

Our military men and women have a tough job, and perhaps one of the more important aspects of their job is to set an example of what this country of ours stands for...and THAT is NOT how to set the example. America is supposed to be a compassionate nation, and people who represent us abroad need to realize this. Being a dumb-ass in front of your friends and a video camera is not representing our country, nor is it defending my freedom...the sick bastard needs to get locked up in Gitmo with the rest of the folks that don't value life the way an American should.:angry:

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Please tell me how a man that was ORDERED to operate a Nazi gas chamber should be held responsible for his actions, but is this guy was ORDERED to throw this puppy off a cliff shouldn't.



Just because you are told to do something wrong does not mean you have to do it.



Wrong is wrong!

Tom is correct. Military members must obey lawful orders. Unlawful orders are not to be obeyed and it should be reported to his/her superiors/chain of command.

 

[Becker69 CO]

Caymen; you are freaking out of control dude. How dare you wish for anyone to be killed in combat. THAT IS AN ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING REASONING OF THIS STUPID VIDEO. Maybe you should get off your lazy ass, enlist, and go find that piece of crap so you can deal with him personally. Get off yourself. You're a disgrace as well.



Regardless of specific legal charges IF this were an actual act and not doctored antiwar garbage it'd fall under each branches charges under the UCMJ of 'Character unbecoming' of a soldier, Airman, Sailor, or Marine. Not to mention probable dereliction of duty and an Article 15 just to name a few.

 

[Becker69 CO]

Nevermind Caymen, I just read your library and associated anti-Iraq link and it's obvious you don't have the balls to put on a uniform to represent the U.S.



Please don't misunderstand how pissed I am at Caymen as a perceived condoning of this stupid video. As I said earlier; no animal ever deserves willfull mistreatment or abuse. And if it is legitimate footage he deserves the severest penalty.

 

[Gypsy me]

Nelson just because they are required to obey lawful orders ..does not mean that they are not under the command of an idiot with rank...a marine is trained to obey orders, period.



And still it would not make it right....it is wrong. Wrong to harm animals, wrong to make such a public display to sway judgements and wrong to sit and bicker over the internet for something that is proving to be false in the first place



You can't always believe what you see on the net. So many ways to sway the average publics way of thinking. Your opinions could be swayed easily if you can't view the entire video open mindedly.



If ARM posted that video, it's possible it was chopped and cropped and dubbed to say and show anything that the person that posted it wanted Americans to believe.



It is possible that the guys in the video were not even in the military.



Why are you all dwelling on it..... there is reasonable doubt that it's not even real.





and again still I agree with you all that say it was wrong what the guy did in the video.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Maybe you should get off your lazy ass, enlist, and go find that piece of crap so you can deal with him personally. Get off yourself. You're a disgrace as well.

Bite me!

Nevermind Caymen, I just read your library and associated anti-Iraq link and it's obvious you don't have the balls to put on a uniform to represent the U.S.

Never underestimate who I am. Just because I do not blindly follow the masses. If you actually knew what I did for a living, you would change your attitude.



If you ever sered in the Navy or Marines on an Aircraft carrier, you would know what I build. Actually, I inspect it to make sure it is the best it can be.

As I said earlier; no animal ever deserves willfull mistreatment or abuse. And if it is legitimate footage he deserves the severest penalty.

Your attitude has already said you support the actions of that J@#$@$$!





Tom

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Hmmmmm.



I have watched the video several times to see if there was something I was missing.. But, I do not think so. I believe it is exactly what we are seeing. No trickery, just true filming...



Ok, I will agree with the following,,,

If he was following orders, he was justified.

Yes, it was "just" a dog.

If they needed silence on a mission, killing the dog was ok...

And about 10 other things from above.



HOWEVER,,,, what he did was simply wrong. Even if it was an order, it was not a reasonable, moral and or ethical for him to kill the dog for what we see to be nothing more than pleasure..

No matter if it was "just" a dog or any other animal... How it was killed was wrong.

If they needed silence, (Which we know better), then they should have simply done the deed and moved on. To take the ime to shoot the video, (laughing by the way), shows they were in no situation they needed silence.



I have been deployed more than my share of times. I have been in some very nasty environments, to the point that I had to find "parts" of my friends so that we could at least bring something home. I have never needed to relieve stress by killing something helpless. The men, or as I will call them, boys,,, in the video were and are nothing more than punks. Trained to kill or not, there is a point and time that training is right and justified, this was NOT one of those times....

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

Do you want a freakshow like that @$$hole representing the USA. We expect things like that from uncivilized countries. Not the USA. Aren't we better than that?

Yes, I would hope that we have better than that representing this country. I sat in front of a soldier on the plane last night from Atl to Phl, and he seemed like just a kid. Maybe 21, but if so, only just barely. He proceeded to get drunk and make an ass of himself hitting on a girl next to him that several times said she wasn't interested. He dropped the f-bomb and the mother-f-bomb every other word. Pretty sad. Yet I don't feel the need to condemn the kid harshly as I too have drank in excess in the past, and I too have used foul language when I shouldn't. Would I like him to have been a better person and a better representative of our armed forces? Yes. Do I feel that I am that much better than him that I should condemn him or instruct him on what his role should be...NO!



Caymen also asked about the countless animals that have died for my pleasure:

Please enlighten me on this pleasure.

Anytime I put on a comfortable pair of shoes, or buy a nice leather belt, or enjoy a T-bone steak, or some chicken nuggets, then there are animals that have died largely for my pleasure.



TJR