Chet 02
Well-Known Member
"We are The children....La ded dada dda de da ded daaa"....Anybody remember that next line?.......Oh never mind, I got it stuck in my head now...Thanx alot R!!!:wacko:
:wacko:
Chet
:wacko:Chet
UAW Seems to Be Cutting Off Its Own Nose to Spite Its Face
- Thread starter TrainTrac
- Start date
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R 2
Well-Known Member
I have friends out in the plant who got no complaints.
Dale Carter
Active Member
Everybody sing it LOUD!!
There comes a time when we heed a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it’s time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all
We can’t go on pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all part of god’s great big family
And the truth, you know, love is all we need
Chorus:
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
Send them your heart
So they’ll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stones to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
When you’re down and out, there seems no hope at all
But if you just believe there’s no way we can fall
Well, well, well, well let us realize that a change can only come
When we stand together as one
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
We are the world......
There comes a time when we heed a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it’s time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all
We can’t go on pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all part of god’s great big family
And the truth, you know, love is all we need
Chorus:
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
Send them your heart
So they’ll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stones to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
When you’re down and out, there seems no hope at all
But if you just believe there’s no way we can fall
Well, well, well, well let us realize that a change can only come
When we stand together as one
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me
We are the world......
Chet 02
Well-Known Member
Oh great....now I'm really stuck with it....Oh...my ears.....they burn!!! they burn!!!
Terry Schultz
Active Member
Tom - When you first started working, did you go to work because "it was union" or because "you wanted a job"? Even, maybe, after several jobs, did you end up in a union job? Does you're union remove people that do not perform up to the craft standards? You probably will say no because they are hired by the company and the union can not remove them. But does the union agree that someone that is a "non-performer". I doubt it because the contract protects "all".
I have seen a "unionized" construction companys that have all the rules that the individual unions have and do an outstanding job. Their stewarts policed their crafts and the slackers and non-performers were not on the job very long.
A company that has many crafts, but only one bargaining agent is in big trouble. The one contract protects all crafts. The individual crafts do not police themselves because they are only seen at negotiation time. The rest of the time "the contract" protects them. The craft unions just want their dues and could care less if they perform or not.
Terry
I have seen a "unionized" construction companys that have all the rules that the individual unions have and do an outstanding job. Their stewarts policed their crafts and the slackers and non-performers were not on the job very long.
A company that has many crafts, but only one bargaining agent is in big trouble. The one contract protects all crafts. The individual crafts do not police themselves because they are only seen at negotiation time. The rest of the time "the contract" protects them. The craft unions just want their dues and could care less if they perform or not.
Terry
Larry Phillips
Well-Known Member
:blink:
Come again?! Would you mind explaining that "theory"?
-Oh, and don't get me started on contractors. They make this desk job I'm currently stuck in that much worse. :angry:
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Michael Cacioppo
Well-Known Member
Question, if unions are good for productivity and quality, why then is the educational system, the post office service, the gargage collectors, city workers,the auto industries and other unionized jobs are in such bad shape and very expensive?
Unions, by their nature, do not provoke productivity or quality. This does not mean that union workers in general are slackers, that is not true, but the number that are is much larger than the 1% cited above. I'd guess the number is more like 20%.
Unions, by their nature, do not provoke productivity or quality. This does not mean that union workers in general are slackers, that is not true, but the number that are is much larger than the 1% cited above. I'd guess the number is more like 20%.
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Yeah Kevin, I'm sorry but I've never met a union member in the Air Force except for contractors. As far as folks sitting behind a desk not being doers, I'd like you to present that theory to your Commander, or to one of the missileers down in the hole, or the folks in your Command Post. All of those folks sit at desks most of the day, and they have a huge impact on the mission.
Many of the union contractors I meet on the base are not doers. They are obstacles. I have sat on a flightline waiting in the cold for hours for the union member to drag his butt out to the scale to weigh my pallets before it is loaded on a plane. I have met union members who come to fix my phone -- charging the government more than many people make in a week just to replace an instrument. I have met union members that I had to escort out of the building, because they were drunk. I also met one union member who was escorted off the base, to the airport and kicked out of Portugal, because she would not follow basic guidelines required by the Air Force.
I work with dozens of civilians in my office and none of them are union members, however they do complain about the union. They complain that the Union slows change in personnel policies that would benefit them, to include allowing them time for physical fitness, conversion to a more equitable pay and promotion system based on merit, and allowing them to participate in Wing goal days which are given by the Commander for meeting Wing Commander's goals.
Many of the union contractors I meet on the base are not doers. They are obstacles. I have sat on a flightline waiting in the cold for hours for the union member to drag his butt out to the scale to weigh my pallets before it is loaded on a plane. I have met union members who come to fix my phone -- charging the government more than many people make in a week just to replace an instrument. I have met union members that I had to escort out of the building, because they were drunk. I also met one union member who was escorted off the base, to the airport and kicked out of Portugal, because she would not follow basic guidelines required by the Air Force.
I work with dozens of civilians in my office and none of them are union members, however they do complain about the union. They complain that the Union slows change in personnel policies that would benefit them, to include allowing them time for physical fitness, conversion to a more equitable pay and promotion system based on merit, and allowing them to participate in Wing goal days which are given by the Commander for meeting Wing Commander's goals.
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Funny you should mention resistance to a merit-based pay system, Nelson. It seems that most unions are opposed to this type of system. At least every time it's proposed within the public school systems, the first, most vocal opponents to a merit-based pay system are the NEA, NFT, and their state and local affiliates.
Terry Schultz
Active Member
Collective unions with their contract, on a single job site, becomes a "socialist" enitity vs an economical enterprise.
I was a union man, paid my dues, for over 30 years and disagreed, for many years, with their "opinion" of what will happen. But, I took my job and worked. Not because it was a union job ----- because it was a job.
If I had to guess, the staunch union members here are good workers and deserve our praise. There are many union workers that do no deserve out praise.
Terry
I was a union man, paid my dues, for over 30 years and disagreed, for many years, with their "opinion" of what will happen. But, I took my job and worked. Not because it was a union job ----- because it was a job.
If I had to guess, the staunch union members here are good workers and deserve our praise. There are many union workers that do no deserve out praise.
Terry
To answer that question, it is combination of both. I spent 9 years working my @$$ off in the cold hundreds of feet in the air just to have some new guy make more money then me because he had a hunting cabin in the woods and takes the boss hunting. Many of those guys came out of the military and I had to teach them that what they learned in the military is nothing what you do in the field. One guy was in the Marines doing the NDI on Marine 1 during the Clinton Administration. He knows President Bill Clinton, VP Al Gore, First Lady Hilary, and Second Lady Tipper. He was invited to White House parties. Another guy spent 10 years in the Navy. Part of his service was flying spy planes off Aircraft Carriers.
We would go on a job, I would get $75.00/day per diem and another guy, a boss's buddy, would get $95.00/day per diem.
How is that fair? Did he deserve it more then I did. Did he deserve to eat better meals and stay in better hotels then I did. Was his time away from home more important then mine was?
Frankly, I was sick and tired of it. One of the reasons I took that job was to eliminate those situations. I did not feel I should have to work weekends, without my consent, because the hunting buddy "Had to go to Church". I got tired of having to miss friends funerals, weddings, concerts, vacations because the company knew that I would do the job and get it done while the other laazy turds would just not show up. Many of those other guys would fail a certification test two to three times before they passed it, then get a raise. I would pass it the first time and never get a raise.
Actually, the company I now work for does have the right to let go any employee that does not perform the job properly. It is written in the contract and it is binding. They could get fired on the spot if there are no "cleaner" or "Sweeper" jobs that that person could bump someone out of. They are required to recertify thier welding skills. You have 9 welding tests to fail. You are only allowed to fail one. You are then able to retake that one test and pass it. If you fail to pass that one test, you are escorted out of the door on the spot. No complaining to your Stewart about it. You failed. Tough luck.
For example. You are taking your first of nine tests. You fail the first test. You have the opporunity to reweld that test piece. You successfully complete the retake of the first test. You are passing everything and then comes the final test. You fail that test. Oh well, see ya. Out the door you go.
I have too. it works the same way where I work. We have a stewart in our department. If there seems to be one guy that has more inspection failures then usual, the Stewart will take that person aside and let him know that if it keeps up, his job could be in jeopardy and he will not be able to represent him.
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
I'm not a union member or anything, but isn't the term steward, not stewart?:huh:
Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
Wow you are good Train Trac, you do quality control- don't ya? :lol:
carry on folks I like to read this stuff
carry on folks I like to read this stuff
Kevin Long
Active Member
I'm not talking about unions in the AF...I am talking about the active duty doers and non-doers.
Mitch H
Member
I for one hope that Toyota will come into Michigan and start opening factories. Toyota opened a R&D Facility in Michigan as our Gov. is wooing them here. Toyota is here this month in and around Flint pondering the idea of opining manufacturing facilities. Hell, why not, Gm abandoned those same factories a long time ago. I'm not taking about the movie Roger and Me either. That was made by that Fat SOB Michael Moore. His movie actually hurt Flint more than it helped it. If Toyota were to move in and take over Flint, our local economy would flourish. I wouldn't see my neighbors without jobs.
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Kevin,
Military members are not allowed to join unions, so I don't understand the post. Non-doers are supposed to be weeded out by supervisors. A "2" EPR and they're out the door. Denial of re-enlistment and they're out. Simple solution, because there are plenty of people who want to stay, but are being shown the door because of the drawdown.
Military members are not allowed to join unions, so I don't understand the post. Non-doers are supposed to be weeded out by supervisors. A "2" EPR and they're out the door. Denial of re-enlistment and they're out. Simple solution, because there are plenty of people who want to stay, but are being shown the door because of the drawdown.
Yup, you are right. It was late and I was home from work.
Just I am in quality control does not mean I have to spell right to know what I am doing. I got good vision, really good vision.
Tom
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
I wasn't meaning to pick on you specifically, Tom. I'd noticed a few other posts where the term was used and spelled with a "t" besides yours. Not being personally involved with unions, I just wanted to clarify it for myself.
Jimmy F
Member
Ok.. After reading the last 30+ responses.. I have to chime in..
I am not Union, nor will I ever be. Lets look at some of the facts:
Airlines:
US Air - Bankrupt (union)
United - Bank.. (union)
Cont - on its way to Bank (union)
vs
Jet Blue - makin $$ hand over fist (NON Union)
Southwest - ditto (NON Union)
Auto's
GM - on its way out - bank... (union)
Ford - on its way out.. bank.. (union)
I work for one of the largest companies in the US.. (a bank.. ya ya I know)
I pay $500+ a month for familty health insurance.. (what are the GM guys paying...)
I don't like the way that my boss talked to me.. tought $hit.. leave
I am not doing my job.. "Your Fired" - Donald Trump
I live in Upstate,NY (Erie Co) we are now paying 8.75% sales tax b/c the Unions in this town.. pretty bad when the CSEA is paying some jerk-off $90k to drive around the County Legist... but we cann't get rid of him b/c he is Union.
Don't get me wrong, 40 years ago Unions were GREAT!! The owners of these companies needed the unions to put them in their place. HOWEVER, today unions are doing nothing in this country except causing companies to go DOWN with their:
If you dont do this.. we will strike.. GOOD THEN STRIKE (dont get paid..fine with me.. OH wait you will still get paid b/c of your presious union)
I have a friend that works for AMerican Axle who has not gone into work in over a year now, got laid off.. HE IS MAKING 90% OF HIS ANNUAL PAY.. F that..
Ya wanna know what happens to the rest of us when we get laid off.. WE FIND A JOB!!
Ya wanna know what happens to the rest of is when we don't get a raise.. TOUGH
Ya wanna know what happens to the rest of us when "Our Boss $hits on us"... DON'T LIKE IT.. THERES THE DOOR.. NO ONE HAS A GUN TO YOUR HEAD
I guess in closing... If all these Unions throughout the country think that they are just getting whats right for them.. what about the rest of us??? We are not union and we seem to be just fine.. Wow.. what a concept.. people working with Management instead of threatening management... I have a Masters Degree and there are guys working at GM (UAW) with highschool degrees.. pushing a broom.. that make more money than me.. THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME.. yet I can pay $35k+ for a new car.. Gotta love it.
JimmyF OUT
I am not Union, nor will I ever be. Lets look at some of the facts:
Airlines:
US Air - Bankrupt (union)
United - Bank.. (union)
Cont - on its way to Bank (union)
vs
Jet Blue - makin $$ hand over fist (NON Union)
Southwest - ditto (NON Union)
Auto's
GM - on its way out - bank... (union)
Ford - on its way out.. bank.. (union)
I work for one of the largest companies in the US.. (a bank.. ya ya I know)
I pay $500+ a month for familty health insurance.. (what are the GM guys paying...)
I don't like the way that my boss talked to me.. tought $hit.. leave
I am not doing my job.. "Your Fired" - Donald Trump
I live in Upstate,NY (Erie Co) we are now paying 8.75% sales tax b/c the Unions in this town.. pretty bad when the CSEA is paying some jerk-off $90k to drive around the County Legist... but we cann't get rid of him b/c he is Union.
Don't get me wrong, 40 years ago Unions were GREAT!! The owners of these companies needed the unions to put them in their place. HOWEVER, today unions are doing nothing in this country except causing companies to go DOWN with their:
If you dont do this.. we will strike.. GOOD THEN STRIKE (dont get paid..fine with me.. OH wait you will still get paid b/c of your presious union)
I have a friend that works for AMerican Axle who has not gone into work in over a year now, got laid off.. HE IS MAKING 90% OF HIS ANNUAL PAY.. F that..
Ya wanna know what happens to the rest of us when we get laid off.. WE FIND A JOB!!
Ya wanna know what happens to the rest of is when we don't get a raise.. TOUGH
Ya wanna know what happens to the rest of us when "Our Boss $hits on us"... DON'T LIKE IT.. THERES THE DOOR.. NO ONE HAS A GUN TO YOUR HEAD
I guess in closing... If all these Unions throughout the country think that they are just getting whats right for them.. what about the rest of us??? We are not union and we seem to be just fine.. Wow.. what a concept.. people working with Management instead of threatening management... I have a Masters Degree and there are guys working at GM (UAW) with highschool degrees.. pushing a broom.. that make more money than me.. THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME.. yet I can pay $35k+ for a new car.. Gotta love it.
JimmyF OUT
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Sounds like you are jealous.
Airlines:
US Air - Bankrupt (union) (old company, did not invest in the future)
United - Bank.. (union) (same as above)
Cont - on its way to Bank (union) (Again, same as above)
vs
Jet Blue - makin $$ hand over fist (NON Union) (New company with little to no pension plan and benefits)
Southwest - ditto (NON Union) (Same as above)
MobilExxon, Union refineries. Making more money then any other company, ever...period. I guess they might have forseen the future and invested towards it.
That is your problem, not mine. If my company wants to pay me more to eliminate health coverage, so be it. I pay the same for health insurance as you do. They just pay me less per hour to make up for it. Where is the problem? Oh wait, you are jealous.
Ever hear of strike insurance? In a nutshell, if the employees strike, the company has an insurance policy that will pay the company to hire replacement workers until the dispute is settled. Nothing lost, but everything to gain.
Ever hear of a lock-out? Some of our union brothers and sisters have been locked out of work for years without no pay. It goes both ways.
100 years ago, people were shooting each other in the streets and 50 years ago, the mob was around. Since the days of the Wild Wild West and most mob activity is gone, should we eliminate police officers?
You honestly, and I mean honestly, think the company gives you benefits out of the kindness of thier hearts? Do you really think they care abut you and your family?
You really think without the threat of a union, your employeer (when I say you, I mean "all of us") will continue to give you benefits?
If you think so, you better pinch yourself because you are asleep and dreaming.
Tom
