Jimmy Lavoie
Well-Known Member
Deep man, deep.:wacko:
Tonneau Cover and MPG
- Thread starter Kurt Hertel
- Start date
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TJR,
There you go off on your word games and now you feel insulted. Why do you think your assumtions are any more valid than anyone elses? My problem with you is that you don't want to debate the logic behind the aerodynamic differences, you just want to just mince words, quote statemets out of context and twist their inteded meaning, just to agrevate the other person.
I stand by my original statement:.. The tonneau cover makes no significant difference in gas mileage, and I feel that the reason is because of the short bed. And unless you can prove that statement is incorrect, your asumptions are not valid in my eyes. I did not say there was no air movment behind the back window, so the match test doesn't prove anythingl but just another of your techniques to imply that I said that.
Science dictates that you do not assume anything, you have to prove everything. My statment was my theory, an unproven theory, but never the less, not an assumption. You clearly stated that your statement was a "Safe assumption". Science says you cannot make that assumption and I agree with Science, whether or not you feel insulted. I even mention several incidents where very minor changes made dramaiic changes to the aerodynamic of a vehicle, but you chose to ignore them and prefered to play your word games.
You never responded to my questions about how a 2 foot and a 6 inch long bed would apply to your "assumptions" and you never addressed that issue, again choosing to prefer word games rather than reply to legitimate question.
Like I said before, I agree to disagree with you, and unless you can prove that my original statement is wrong, I am finished playing word games with you.
...Rich
There you go off on your word games and now you feel insulted. Why do you think your assumtions are any more valid than anyone elses? My problem with you is that you don't want to debate the logic behind the aerodynamic differences, you just want to just mince words, quote statemets out of context and twist their inteded meaning, just to agrevate the other person.
I stand by my original statement:.. The tonneau cover makes no significant difference in gas mileage, and I feel that the reason is because of the short bed. And unless you can prove that statement is incorrect, your asumptions are not valid in my eyes. I did not say there was no air movment behind the back window, so the match test doesn't prove anythingl but just another of your techniques to imply that I said that.
Science dictates that you do not assume anything, you have to prove everything. My statment was my theory, an unproven theory, but never the less, not an assumption. You clearly stated that your statement was a "Safe assumption". Science says you cannot make that assumption and I agree with Science, whether or not you feel insulted. I even mention several incidents where very minor changes made dramaiic changes to the aerodynamic of a vehicle, but you chose to ignore them and prefered to play your word games.
You never responded to my questions about how a 2 foot and a 6 inch long bed would apply to your "assumptions" and you never addressed that issue, again choosing to prefer word games rather than reply to legitimate question.
Like I said before, I agree to disagree with you, and unless you can prove that my original statement is wrong, I am finished playing word games with you.
...Rich
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
RichardL,
You say "now" I feel insulted as somehow I am changing my tune. I made no bones about your insult from my first post.
I never dismissed your original statement, that the T-cover makes no significant difference in MPG. So if that makes you happier I agree with you on that. I don't see 1mpg which is about all one could hope for as significant, and neither do you, so on that we agree.
As for your absurd question about a 6" long bed, I don't know for sure, but I am pretty sure it would not have as much swirling wind over it as a bed that is 2' long, which would have even less than a 4' long bed, which would have less than a 6' long. But I don't know of any 6" or 2' beds out there, thus the question is rather meaningless. Is there a short enough bed that would have no wind across it...maybe... but again why assume, right?
As for your theory:
I think you are wrong. As a matter of fact, I am sure you are wrong about the bubble effect. It forms. Whether or not it is significant is already agreed to above.
The bubble does form on the short bed of the ST. It forms when the tailgate is up and the cover is off. You have seen this bubble yourself and attributed it to something else. You assumed it was because the short bed somehow kept these leaves safe from the forces of the wind, as if there was no air rushing across the shortened bed. I disagree. The leaves actually stayed in place because of the bubble effect. So the bubble effect does form on the short bed.
But why assume? There is a simple way to disprove the notion that there is no air behind the cab and on the short bed. You can do this this with a test. In this test simply put the tailgate of the ST down, and see if leaves or other lightweight objects fly out at highway speeds. If they do, there is wind rushing across the bed. Hint: They will fly out... I have driven my ST in this way and they have.
That means that the aerodynamics of the ST and its short bed is such that wind does rush over the bed when the tailgate is down. However no such air flows across the bed and into the bed when the tailgate is up, by your own observation. Therefore we can see that there is a bubble with the tailgate up. These are good scientific observations. Granted, a wind tunnel would show for sure, but do we really need to go to that extreme?
The proof is that stuff stays put in the ST bed with the tailgate up, but flies out with the tailgate down.
So, my only original point was: If there is a cover on the ST then that cover will have more drag than the bubble; and more drag than that same air moving across the uncovered bed of the ST with the tailgate down...and less drag = > MPG.
You've done little to show me that the bubble doesn't form. I never debated the significance. I given reasons to show that it does.
TJR
You say "now" I feel insulted as somehow I am changing my tune. I made no bones about your insult from my first post.
I never dismissed your original statement, that the T-cover makes no significant difference in MPG. So if that makes you happier I agree with you on that. I don't see 1mpg which is about all one could hope for as significant, and neither do you, so on that we agree.
As for your absurd question about a 6" long bed, I don't know for sure, but I am pretty sure it would not have as much swirling wind over it as a bed that is 2' long, which would have even less than a 4' long bed, which would have less than a 6' long. But I don't know of any 6" or 2' beds out there, thus the question is rather meaningless. Is there a short enough bed that would have no wind across it...maybe... but again why assume, right?
As for your theory:
I think you are wrong. As a matter of fact, I am sure you are wrong about the bubble effect. It forms. Whether or not it is significant is already agreed to above.
The bubble does form on the short bed of the ST. It forms when the tailgate is up and the cover is off. You have seen this bubble yourself and attributed it to something else. You assumed it was because the short bed somehow kept these leaves safe from the forces of the wind, as if there was no air rushing across the shortened bed. I disagree. The leaves actually stayed in place because of the bubble effect. So the bubble effect does form on the short bed.
But why assume? There is a simple way to disprove the notion that there is no air behind the cab and on the short bed. You can do this this with a test. In this test simply put the tailgate of the ST down, and see if leaves or other lightweight objects fly out at highway speeds. If they do, there is wind rushing across the bed. Hint: They will fly out... I have driven my ST in this way and they have.
That means that the aerodynamics of the ST and its short bed is such that wind does rush over the bed when the tailgate is down. However no such air flows across the bed and into the bed when the tailgate is up, by your own observation. Therefore we can see that there is a bubble with the tailgate up. These are good scientific observations. Granted, a wind tunnel would show for sure, but do we really need to go to that extreme?
The proof is that stuff stays put in the ST bed with the tailgate up, but flies out with the tailgate down.
So, my only original point was: If there is a cover on the ST then that cover will have more drag than the bubble; and more drag than that same air moving across the uncovered bed of the ST with the tailgate down...and less drag = > MPG.
You've done little to show me that the bubble doesn't form. I never debated the significance. I given reasons to show that it does.
TJR
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Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
Interesting pissing contest, why don't you two face off on a fence and see who's stream go;s the highest
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bill Barber,
I guess I will have to give you a retort that my 7yo gives to kids on the playground, since that seems to be your level today.
Here goes:
This is a conversation between A and B, so why don't you C your way out of it!
RichardL, God bless. Nothing personal. You can have the last word, I am out of it.
TJR
I guess I will have to give you a retort that my 7yo gives to kids on the playground, since that seems to be your level today.
Here goes:
This is a conversation between A and B, so why don't you C your way out of it!
RichardL, God bless. Nothing personal. You can have the last word, I am out of it.
TJR
Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
Make sure your a man of your word TJR, god bless, pls end this thread
Kurt Hertel
Member
HOLY SHIT... I GOT MY POST JACKED THE HELL OUT FROM ME.... GEEZE I MAY HAVE EVEN STARTED A FEUD.... GUYS MYTHBUSTERS IS A SHOW... GO OUT AND TEST IT YOURSELVES IF THERE IS AN ISSUE.... THIS IS THE SPORT TRAC FORUM.... NOT sailinganarchy.com. MY FIRST QUESTION WAS ANSWERED.... although i do like seeing my name at the front of the forum all the time. haha
Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
No feud, Dude, but we have members that just like to talk, because they can.
Bottom line is, t cover, tailgate up, tailgate down, MPG is negligble.
Simple answere to a simple question.
Bottom line is, t cover, tailgate up, tailgate down, MPG is negligble.
Simple answere to a simple question.
Jimmy Lavoie
Well-Known Member
Prozac? :blink:
