Rear differential LOCKER??

[Bill Koonce]

I have looked and I tend to agree with Mustang Guy. The driving style I have and need is to put power to the rear wheels with traction. I does appear the TrueTrac is the the best option to meet what I am looking for. And for the same cost!!

I'd spend more for the Torsen, but I'm biased (get it?!? [biased[/i]???)

Big question - Can an average wrencher do this at home or does it need professional installation?? Does it 'drop in' like the powertrax?

No differential "just drops in". It's not the differential per se, it's the ring and pinion alignment that's going to be your major headache. You have shims to install by trial and error. You have a crush collar for the pinion gear that's a one-time use part. Make one mistake and you're going to be waiting...



If you have a good service manual, all parts, a dial gauge and gear paint, you have a fighting chance. Remember that each crush collar is only good for one try.

 

[Tom Schindler]

If you get a powertrax, you remove the axles, remove the spiders, and then install the unit.



You do not remove the carrier or ring. There is no need to swap out shims to set the right pinion mesh or anything like that.



A search on youtube should get you some simple installs on a Powertrax unit.





Tom

 

[Chad Merry]

I Installed gears in my Ford 8.8 and my old stock Dana 35 and my new Dana 44 front axle. Pretty simple witha dial guage. Plus like Caymen said the "Lunch Box" style lockers Powertrac, Aussie, Lock Rite, etc all drop right in. You dont touch the gears at all.



I am thinking someone is talking before they have ever had any first hand experience, which becomes very frustrating :banghead:

 

[Bill Koonce]

If you get a powertrax, you remove the axles, remove the spiders, and then install the unit.

Oh, so it's like a mini-spool. Very convenient. But still not streetable.



P.S. I've seen ring gears and carriers that do not allow these units to "drop right in". I don't know if it applies to this application, but I wouldn't just assume. Besides, what better time to freshen up the part of your truck that carries the most torque and is least maintained?

I am thinking someone is talking before they have ever had any first hand experience, which becomes very frustrating

Are you taking a swipe at me because I am not a great expert on half-measures?



Sorry that my locker experience is limited to full carrier types like the famous Detroit Locker(R). Sorry that I believe in preventive maintenance when you have the opportunity. Sorry to burst the "off-road parts are always better on-road" bubble...



I've spent more than 30 years researching third member designs, and have tried most of them. IMHO dog clutch lockers like the Powertrax Lock-Right should be banned from public roads. They're unstable in turns. Unless you're a mudder or drag racer, you have far better alternatives.

 

[Chad Merry]

Not taking a "Swipe" at you. But you are incredibly wrong in regards to this topic, is all I am saying. And I believe you do not have any experience with this since you have 30years of experience and did not know that Richmond Gear makes a drop in locker that is 100% streetable. And is also FAR from a "half-measure"



Maybe you should spend another 30 years researching 3rd members. I dont understand how it could possibly take 30 years to research 3rd members, but if you have time then more power to you. I tend to believe that is slight exaggeration, since there is only a handful of companies that even deal/make/produce custom or OEM 3rd members..

 

[Tom Schindler]

Oh, so it's like a mini-spool. Very convenient. But still not streetable.

As Chad says, Richmond Gear, a highly respected company, claims the Powertrax is 100% streetable and very safe a reliable.



If I did not have a LSD in my Trac, I would have one of those in there.





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

Sorry, double clutched. ;-)





Tom

 

[Bill Koonce]

You're entitled to your opinion, Caymen. I won't call you wrong. But every time I've driven a dog clutch-type locker in the rain and snow I've been scared stiff at every turn. IME the Torsen is the finest mechanical traction adder for third members that I know of.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Don't get me wrong. Torsen is, by far, the best but the price is untouchable by most.



I looked into getting one for my car. To get the torsen for it, I would have to drop $1,800. That is just out of my reach for a street car. The same with the Sport Trac. Personally, I can not justify the expense and work involved in going Torson.



From what I read about the Powertrax, and seen on display, the design is pretty slick, it works, and is affordable. The best part is that it can be installed by the backyard mechanic with simple tools. Hell, you might be able to get a Phantom Grip for even less. Not sure how well it works, but I know of some guys that have it installed and claims for the price, it can't be beat.





Tom



update: No Phantom Grip is available. They cater to FWD vehicles for those wanting extra traction without exotic set-ups and expensive conversions such as custom half shafts and expensive tranny conversions.

 

[Bill Koonce]

Not taking a "Swipe" at you. But you are incredibly wrong in regards to this topic, is all I am saying.

You're saying, but not proving. You are attacking me personally, and adding nothing to the topic. There's a word for that kind of behavior.

And I believe you do not have any experience with this since you have 30years of experience and did not know that Richmond Gear makes a drop in locker that is 100% streetable. And is also FAR from a "half-measure"

You have every right to be ignorant and use faulty logic. Just don't blame me for your shortcomings.

I dont understand how it could possibly take 30 years to research 3rd members, but if you have time then more power to you.

Yes, it will be. I'll be up-to-date on the increasingly sophisticated technologies that put power to the road. Do you plan on learning anything at all during the same time?

 

[Bill Koonce]

Tom, I can't believe that anybody would charge $1800 for an off-the-shelf Torsen. The T-2 runs less than $600 new. They install just like any other differential, so you can DIY it. I had my Thunderbird done for $500 labor, and the T-Bird and Cobra IRS units are as hard an install as you'll see. (Obviously a FWD install will cost more; that's why FWD sucks.) What kind of car is it?



I'll be the first to admit that I budget more for traction adders like tires, differentials etc. If I had to economize, I'd get a Truetrac, buy used or use a good ol' "posi" type.



Unless you're on a drag strip or crawling over rocks, there's simply no need to lock the halfshafts together. MOF I'll bet that a lot of drag strip crashes are caused by the constant speed nature of spools and lockers. A spool is cheap and strong, but constant speed doesn't automatically make constant traction, unless the track and tires are absolutely perfect.



I suppose that a cheap gizmo that "just drops in" is attractive to some. Not to me, though. Not after walking 20 miles home after one of those drop-in things broke on me.

 

[Chad Merry]

This will be my last post in this thread, as I live by signature when dealing with most internet posts. I also see a pattern here in this thread and many others Mustang Guy, with your rhetoric. How about you quit typing your Wikipedia responses on here and come up with your own.. There is something to be said about originality.

You're saying, but not proving. You are attacking me personally, and adding nothing to the topic. There's a word for that kind of behavior.

I am not attacking you at all, if you feel that way then you need to work that out with yourself. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone in this entire world, you have your own opinions and I am not here to change them nor will I try to, again I believe in my statement in my signature. As far as what my behavior would be described as I really don't care.

You have every right to be ignorant and use faulty logic. Just don't blame me for your shortcomings.

I don't blame you for anything, and my logic is far from faulty. You keep talking about 3rd members and your 30 years of research for a part that is used in about 3 types of axles that proves to me you are completely and unequivocally uneducated about axles and their practical and modified uses. You my friend have some serious shortcomings not me.

Yes, it will be. I'll be up-to-date on the increasingly sophisticated technologies that put power to the road. Do you plan on learning anything at all during the same time?

You say you will be up to date on the new technologies, going by your stated track record that will take at least another 30 years, since it took that long to research a single part that goes into a FORD 9" axle, well Chevy claims to have a similar design as does Toyota, either way it is the exact same principal and design. And you ask if I plan learning anything new? Why yes I will, I teach and learn everyday, and have fun debates with people like you everyday to dumb my day down. I would have to safely say my ST has seen more street to rock crawling use than anyone on this site, and many people enjoy seeing what I do next to my truck. I read and study every piece of equipment that goes into my ST long before I install it. I have to, because I drive 1300 miles to Moab, UT to go on level 4 and 5 trails and push my rig to the max, and then drive it home. So when I see a STUPID post that says lunchbox lockers are not streetable; I will prove anyone wrong at anytime, because I have done for the last 4-5 years. And YOU are completely wrong in every post you have made in this thread, and I have proven it for the last 50,000 miles of use.



I am done with this thread, and to the original poster, a Powertrax locker will serve you great, it WILL NOT harm your mileage, and is very simple to install. It WILL NOT AFFECT your turning in any way shape or form, if you jump on the gas hard in snow or ice your ST may go sideways, but since you hammered the gas pedal what do you expect. I love my Powertrax locker and would keep it, but I plan an running 37" tires and that tire size exceeds the limits of the Powertrax locker, so I will be installing an ARB locker and setting up my own gears, very easily with my dial gauge and the gear mesh paint that is included in ALL axle gear setup kits. I WILL then sell my powertrax for a cheap price to someone on this site who has seen what I have done and want a discounted locker.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Tom, I can't believe that anybody would charge $1800 for an off-the-shelf Torsen. The T-2 runs less than $600 new. They install just like any other differential, so you can DIY it. I had my Thunderbird done for $500 labor, and the T-Bird and Cobra IRS units are as hard an install as you'll see. (Obviously a FWD install will cost more; that's why FWD sucks.) What kind of car is it?

It is a Mazdaspeed Racing differential made for the FWD Mazda 3 series vehicles. Problem is that the tranny needs cracked open, carrier assembly pulled out, re-machined to make room for the Torsen slip guts and then custom make half shafts to convert it from the MX3 inner to Familia outer.



I even tried locating one from Europe, but couldn't.





Tom

 

[Bill Koonce]

Ouch! Yeah, that's as bad as it gets, Tom. Like I said, FWD sucks. :fire:



For FWD applications, Quaife offers a growing line of Torsen-style differentials. They tend to be gawdawful expensive, but they do seem to be drop-in replacements. That means no machining, custom half shafts or other BS...I think. See for yourself:



http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/products/qdf7f



Hope this helps!



Bill

 

[Bill Koonce]

Chad, you're an egotistical idiot. I do hope that you honor your pledge to STFU here, and in other places where you're a dilettante. If you have nothing nice or helpful to say...either ask nicely, or learn from the people who can support their statements with facts.

 

[Tom Schindler]

That is the only LSD out there for my aplication. That was the uberexpensive one. Nobody else makes one for it.





Tom

 

[Bill Koonce]

Sorry to read that, Tom. Quaife is the last resort for FWD drivers that I know of. Sadly, Vern Gleasman's sons have been promising exciting new Torsen models for several years now, with nothing to show. Zexel Torsen is doing booming business (Audi Quattro, GM Camaro/Firebird, Ford Ranger and Focus, Subaru WRX...) in the OEM market. But they don't seem to care much about the aftermarket. Eaton hasn't made any changes to the Truetrac lineup since they bought it from...Dana???



The bottom line is that FWD is just too expensive for the average Joe to go racing with. Cheap to make; costly to modify and/or repair. I learned this when I raced an R5 "Le Car" in the least expensive class I could find. One busted differential later and Le Car was legacy. I couldn't fix it myself, my boss couldn't either...FOR SALE.



Here's to finding some solution. :haveabeer:

 

[Tom Schindler]

The issue with the Quaife is actually licensing to buy in the USA. If I wanted a Quaife in the USA, I would have to purchase a Mazdaspeed unit, built by Quaife. To buy in Europe and have it shipped here is illegal.



Even if I were to have a contact in England buy it and ship it to me, I am looking at $1,000.00 for the unit alone. That does not take into account the modifications needed for my application.



There are a few guys running 485 HP at the front wheels with a Phantom Grip with excellant results.





Tom

 

[Bill Koonce]

Ouch! Quaife are bastards! My condolences.



I'm not saying this to "rub it in", but stuff like that is why I'm a die-hard RWD fan. :driving:

 

[Tom Schindler]

I love RWD myself, but I like chalenges too.



I don't follow the cookie cutter "I run a Mustang" MO. I like to be different.





Tom