Photo Radar

[LoriMaury Kimbrough]

Something that's getting lots of media attention here is AZ is photo radar. It's currently being used on certain freeways in Phoenix. They also have many red light camara's there as well. They have proven to be huge revenue generators for the cities.



Now our Governor wants to put them on the majority of our highways. She doesn't really want to put them there for safety reasons, she wants them for the revenue that they will generate. Like many states, AZ is facing a rather large budget deficit.



I really don't have a problem with radar cameras or red light cameras from the standpoint of if you are breaking the law then you get what you deserve. They have proven that they do slow down traffic and stop many red light runners. Where I have the problem is installing them simply for the revenue they will generate. What do you do when the cameras do the job they were intended to do, and the revenue goes away?



I read one report that said what cities are doing now is changing things like the timing of the yellow light so that more people will get red-light tickets and the revenue will go back up. So if the radar is originally set up to issues tickets to those going 11 miles or more over the speed limit, do they then lower that?



So, I'm on the fence, from one standpoint it seems like an expensive bandaid for current budget crisis...what do you think?

 

[TomT]

In Texas we have Zero Tolerance Speed Cameras.

[Broken External Image]:

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

Kimbro, We've had red light camera's here in CA for several yrs. There was a big flap a couple of yrs. ago about the cameras not being set correctly, and some people got off because of it.



TomT, :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Dingo]

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[EddieS'04]

If our politicians knew how to spend money properly. They would not need them for extra revenue, that will also get misspent. The red light cameras have been going up here also. Some of them with very short yellows and lots of law suits.

 

[Dingo]

The red light cameras here use laser, not radar. Thankfully, my laser jammers work really well for them too.

 

[Tom Schindler]

So, I'm on the fence, from one standpoint it seems like an expensive bandaid for current budget crisis...what do you think?

I am completely against any type of speed trap used for revenue. I get pissed when cops run radar, but that is an officer doing his job.



A camera is used ONLY for revenue generation is there to make money, not to promote safety.



High accident intersections with red light camera's do not lower the accident rate. While it may lessen the number of people that run the redlights, the rear ending accidents goes up at the same rate. The overall deaths/injuries in those intersections stay the same and sometimes go up.



Not everyone that is speeding deserves a ticket. That is a fact. There are many extenuating circumstances that come into play whn an officer has you pulled over. A medical condition of you or someone else is just one. Mechanical issues with your vehicle is another. If the throttle gets stuck while driving causing you to speed, an officer can be there to assist if needed. A speed camera will take your picture, send you a ticket, and never care about what happened.



If the police forces are out there to enforce the laws to protect the general public, a speed generator is making money.



I would be 100% supporting those devices if they would use them to eliminate tax's. They are just adding tax's in the name of safety.



We want to think living in the USA is better than living in a Communist or Socialist state.



Camera's used to control the population come right from those Communist and Socialist states.



It really blurs the differences between a Democratic form of government and other types of government.



Should we be proud that even though we do not want to accept any type of socialized medicine to work for the greater good because Socialized medicine is bad, but stand there and say the control of people using Socialist practices are perfectly acceptable?



Is this what "we the people" want or are willing to accept?



Not me!





Tom

 

[Dingo]

I'm not even sure how legal they are here. Here's why:



My dad was out in one of my Porsches a couple months ago. He was following a big truck and couldn't see the light, but went through anyway. The city of Suwanee sent him a beautiful piece of paper with color photo printouts of him running the light and a bill for $70. He forgot to pay it. A couple weeks after the due date, they sent another letter, stating that if it wasn't paid within 30 days, they'd send it to a collection agency.



It seems to me that if it were truly legal, they'd issue a bench warrant, not send him to collections.

 

[EddieS'04]

Dingo, that is intresting..maybe more lawsuits for that type of issue also.

 

[Tom Schindler]

It seems to me that if it were truly legal, they'd issue a bench warrant, not send him to collections.

In Ohio, the cities make the fine a CIVIL case, therefore, you could accrue 100 tickets a day, but none of them count on your drivers record.



I bet your state is the same way. You are issued a fine for speeding and that fine is a civil fine and not a traffic fine.





Tom

 

[Johnny O]

Car & Driver magazine has reported several times that where the cameras have been installed, yellow light times were reduced. Also that the photoradar manufacturer gets a cut of the fine money. I have also read that you may be able to fight it on the Consitutional grounds that you are not able to face your accuser in court (remember that some of the fine money may go toward the judge's paycheck however).

Best solution, run for office on a platform of getting rid of redlight cameras.

Easiest solution, buy one of those license plate covers that blurs your plate at an angle.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

C'mon folks, stop your complaining. This idea that there are speed traps that exist "ONLY" for revenue generation is naive, and even if true, how could one prove it? Regardless the trap there is some aspect of it that is to "protect and serve".



TJR

 

[LoriMaury Kimbrough]

TomT...Being from Texas myself...I could go for some of those here in AZ.



One of the guys that I work with got a photo radar ticket. It came with nice photos and even a link to a video showing him speeding past and the camera taking the picture. Just before his fine was due, he got a notice saying that the ticket had been dismissed for "adminitrative reasons".



There was a story on the news the other night about how they were causing broken relationships and other family problems because the pictures are showing people together that aren't supposed to be together.



Hadn't thought about the lawsuit issue, I'll bet that will end up costing the state more money than what the tickets generated.



There is at least one legislator that is doing everything that he can to stop the Governor. Apparently, what the Governor is doing is not within the legal boundries of her office. If that doesn't work, it'll go to the voters. It doesn't have a chance there.



Guess I'm not on the fence as much as I thought I was..at least I'm not anymore.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Easiest solution, buy one of those license plate covers that blurs your plate at an angle.

Many communities pass laws against those plate covers long before they install the camera's.

Also that the photoradar manufacturer gets a cut of the fine money.

One company, Nestor traffic Systems, actually handles everything. They issue the citation, collect the money, then send the city a portion of it. The employees of Nestor are not Police Officers. They are not even Peace Officers.



Nestor has been caught issusing tickets in a School Zone and hour before and an hour after the School zone was open and closed. They make about $19.00/ticket. During that time, they were nailing 1,000 people that were driving the speed limit of 35 MPH, but issuing them for going 35 MPH in a School Zone of 20 MPH, WHEN THE AREA WAS NOT A SCHOOL ZONE! So, at about 2000 drivers a day, Nester was making $38,000/day by issuing tickets when they should not have been.



It was not until they ticketed a Lawyer. That Lawyer pushed the case and won. The camera's are still there though.



The city was charging about $200.00 for the fine. In like 19 days, the city made over 2 million dollars with those camera's.



The city is still asking for tax increases. I guess the mayor needed a raise.





Tom

 

[Craig Childs]

Easiest solution, buy one of those license plate covers that blurs your plate at an angle

Mythbusters did a segment on those and some other stuff too (hairspray, saran wrap, etc.) and they found them completely ineffective.



The truly easiest solution is to not run red lights, avoiding needlessly endangering yourself and others. I have seen a person run a red light first hand and cause a pretty bad accident, and that right there was enough to make me never run a red light.

 

[Dingo]

I don't intentionally run them, but sometimes with these short yellows, you get hung in the intersection.

 

[Tom Schindler]

The truly easiest solution is to not run red lights, avoiding needlessly endangering yourself and others.

That sounds like a great idea. What if the city changed the yellow light from 2 seconds to 1/2 second to make you run a red light. Do you just stop at a green light in case it turns red?



Cities have changed the yellow light timing on intersections with red light camera's to increase the liklihood of a larger number of peple to run a light.



Studies have shown that increasing the yellow light time a half second, or so, almost eliminated red light runners.



There are better and more effective solutions to stop light runners.



One big one is proper light timing. How many times do you get agravated when the lights are timed that you will always get stoped at every light no matter how fast or slow you drive. No matter the day or night, weekday, weekend, holiday, etc. Those lights will cause people to run a light.





Tom

 

[Craig Childs]

I'm not pointing fingers or anything like that, I have been caught in the middle too, misjudging the timing of the lights, all I'm saying is I would rather slam on my brakes then floor it to save just a little bit of time.

 

[Todd Z]

LOL, we have lights here that are speed controlled, If you pass a certain point doing 5mph over the limit, the light up the road changes red.....



Gotta love it...but the people that live on the side streets were tired of getting t boned all the time by speeders.... that was truly done for safety...



Todd Z

 

[Tom Schindler]

all I'm saying is I would rather slam on my brakes then floor it to save just a little bit of time.

If causing you to slam on your brakes to stop in time of a light could endanger someone behind you, is that any different?



If those same communities that put those camera's up for safety actually wanted safety, making the yellow light longer would be the safer thing to do.



The, then, mayor of Cleveland wanted red light camera's installed. the first thing she talked about was the revenue it would bring the city. When the Plain Dealer reported it, she said the number one reason for the lights was safety.



If money had NOTHING to do with the lights, why would the first thing you say is how much money it will make the city?



Simply put, if safety is the true reason, the camera's should be a last resort. There are better and more effective ways to improve safety.





Tom