Pedals too close together?

[Keola P]

I also had this problem a couple of times. I have razo pedals and it makes the gas pedal slightly wider and slighly longer...same for the brakes.



Both times it happened, it was with my Bates tactical work boots on. That along with having lazy feet at the end of the day, and different sized pedals is what's responsible for this problem, I think.



Never happened before I changed the pedals...

 

[Jim Sturgess]

never had that problem on my 08 STA

 

[Richard Kolb]

Seriously, I don't see how ya'll drive with only one foot...holding that left foot at the ready builds shin muscles. Other than the emergency brake, what is there for your left foot to do elsewise?

My left foot works the clutch!

 

[Kevin Lang]

My left foot works the clutch!

So you're one of the very few to have a manual ST? As cool as manual transmissions are, I'm glad I don't have 4 pedals down there...and then pressing the emergency brake and the clutch at the same time would be a bit tricky.



Without a clutch, the left foot still needs something to do, and that is the brake. The "truth" that you can't use a left foot for the brake because it becomes accustomed to slamming the clutch is bogus. I just get bored using the dead pedal. The only logic I see in doing so is that then you don't have to brace against the door when you turn, which could impair steering a bit.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

We all know the conventional wisdom as to why drivers should use one foot for the gas and brake. The main reason is so that one doesn't "ride the brakes."



I've traveled behind a few drivers in my time that have their brake lights on all the time...all the time. They must replace pads every 10k miles.



TJR

 

[Larry Phillips]

I didn't have a problem in the ST, but I keep getting my left foot caught behind the brake when I push the clutch on the Mustang.

 

[Kevin Lang]

The main reason is so that one doesn't "ride the brakes."

But TJR, the one foot methodology leads to really late braking, which my compadres who practice the one foot method say comes from reluctance to switch the foot over "until I have to".



Sadly, the one foot method also leads to being conditioned to keep the foot on a pedal--very few one footers IME ever hover their foot; it is always on a pedal. This isn't too detrimental for freeway driving, but when you get to windier backroads, it leads to people not wanting to accelerate through the turn, so instead of just hovering their foot, they press the brake...which not only leads to them driving infuriatingly slow, but braking during a turn is a really bad habit to get into.



My father is a practitioner of the one foot method, and in his cherished honda odyssey he can slam on the brakes at the last second to stop, and even slam on the brakes at apexes of turns...but when he did that in my ST, when it was raining a bit, he ended up doing a 180.



(If only the ST was practical to do a 180 with at the drop of a hat, because 3 point turns are a pita)



Addressing your other point, I keep my foot off of the brake pedal in the 2 footed world..I thoguht about adding a light that is in parallel with the brake lights so I'd know if I was slacking unconsciously, but haven't investigated doing so. It's good exercise for your left shin muscles.



Still though, how can retracting the right while simultaneously extending the left foot be slower than having to retract the right, pivot the right, contact the brake pedal, and then extend the right? The one foot method has to be slower, but I guess it is a good thing that not everyone does it, as there could be something to this statistic that the majority of people improperly perform the 2 foot method in a panic stop. Experience has taught me that I am not one of those people. (Knock on wood lol)

 

[Thomas Rogers]

KL said:

But TJR, the one foot methodology leads to really late braking, which my compadres who practice the one foot method say comes from reluctance to switch the foot over "until I have to".

Oh really? Normal reaction time is up to 3/4 of a second, or so says most studies I have seen. Whether moving the right foot from the gas to the brake, or the left from the floor to the brake, that time doesn't change much. It might get a little shorter if one rides the brake with the left foot at all time, but not much I suspect; and resting one's foot on the brake pedal all the time is a very bad, dangerous idea, especially if depressed enough for the brake lights to come on...which isn't much.



I don't agree with having any "reluctance" to move my foot from the gas to the brake because I use the one foot method. Assuming such a reluctance is true would mean that one-legged drivers are more dangerous than two-legged drivers, which I am sure those drivers with one leg would have issue with.



I do, however, have a reluctance to apply brakes in general, regardless the foot I use. My wife doesn't like riding with me. She is always saying "brake lights!", crying about cars ahead, sometime way ahead applying the brakes...as if I should too. LOL. My reluctance comes from simply not wanting to slow down just to have to speed up again. For that same reason, when in stop and go traffic I often leave several car lengths between me and the car in front (as kissing his bumper causes more frequent, and more harsh braking).



KL also said:

Sadly, the one foot method also leads to being conditioned to keep the foot on a pedal--very few one footers IME ever hover their foot; it is always on a pedal.

That sounds like a theory to me; most definately not a fact. Still, even if true, I suspect the pedal that is more frequently rested on is the gas, not the brake.



KL then said:

This isn't too detrimental for freeway driving, but when you get to windier backroads, it leads to people not wanting to accelerate through the turn, so instead of just hovering their foot, they press the brake...which not only leads to them driving infuriatingly slow, but braking during a turn is a really bad habit to get into.

Says who? Couldn't people just as likely keep that one foot on the gas instead of the brake? Again, it sounds like guess-work to me, but I know I favor resting my foot on (or above) the gas, not the brake, unless of course I am stopping or stopped.



KL also said:

The one foot method has to be slower

Not really, especially not if the left foot is on the floor at rest (when not braking), then they are the same or possibly the one-footed method is faster (less distance to move). Resting the left foot on the brake at all times is both a safety issue and a maintenance/cost issue, so I assume most folks that would practice the two-foot method would avoid that.



KL, Do what you want. But you are driving wrong!



Also, your way of driving would make it INFINATELY harder to ever learn to drive a manual transmission. Learning to drive a manual transmission, well, addresses most all the issues you talked about in your post (when to brake, driving through turns, how and when to hover over the pedals, etc). Frankly, I think it should be a law in each state that one must take their road test driving a car with a manual transmission.



TJR

 

[mookie]

I don't see any problem using two feet if you never drive a manual trans equipped vehicle.

In a panic situation, reflexes take over and you better be automatically using the correct foot on the correct pedal! I would think that is the biggest reason not to use your left foot for the brake sometimes and clutch other times.



I use my right foot for both gas and brake and I drive smoothly, not always having to press on a pedal. I hover over the brake if I think I may have to use it.

 

[Kevin Lang]

KL also said: Quote:

Sadly, the one foot method also leads to being conditioned to keep the foot on a pedal--very few one footers IME ever hover their foot; it is always on a pedal.

That sounds like a theory to me; most definately not a fact. Still, even if true, I suspect the pedal that is more frequently rested on is the gas, not the brake.

It is a theory--In retrospect I should have typed out my acronym for In My Experience, but I wanted to save on syllables. Lacking on letters on my part caused led to a conveyance of confusion constituting your part.



All the things that I have said come from my observations from riding with people who practice the one footed method. As my observation sample isn't great or diverse enough to be a representative sample, I asked. However, I do not think that those whom I have ridden with are alone in their behaviors, so my theory has merit.



TJR, assuming that my sample is an outlier in the grand scheme of things, then that would be a sad revelation to me, as it would mean that there is no forgivable reason for why people drive so freaking slow on turns, and largely ride the brake through them.

especially not if the left foot is on the floor at rest (when not braking),

TJR, in my practiced version of 2 footed driving, the left foot hovers above the brake pedal constantly. Putting it on the floor at any point would be reverting to the one foot method, and riding the brake pedal would be grossly counterproductive.



I can agree with your idea that state driving tests should be taken in a manual transmission (Though first they should make the tests more than a facade, you can pass them with even just 5 hours of wheel time ), but if we go that far, then I insist that all drivers should have to be bicyclists for a time before driving, because drivers by and large do not have a clue as how to deal with bikers on the road, and they should be mandated to be a pedestrian for a time period to see how annoying imbecilic driving in pedestrian areas reallly is.



While all of these things are probably impossible, they really do need to be instated. When I had to suffer through The Drs. at the Ford dealership, they said that Americans spend 90% of their time indoors, where inside one's car counted as indoors. Most drivers are only pedestrians long enough to go cross the parking lots, which has left them with unfamiliarity with other forms of transit...an unfamiliarity which endangers the bikers and pedestrians, and ultimately impedes car traffic.



(Anyone who has ever ridden a bike and had a car tailgate them at their 15 mph or so, instead of simply passing, knows that it is annoying and dangerous...and the 10 cars stuck behind the one annoying driver would readily agree.)

 

[TRACket Paul]

Normal reaction time is up to 3/4 of a second, or so says most studies I have seen. Whether moving the right foot from the gas to the brake, or the left from the floor to the brake, that time doesn't change much.

Could you link those "most studies", please? Thanks!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Tracket,



It's a very common stat I have run across and heard many times. Do a Google search on "reaction time" or "response time", and include "3/4 second", you will get tons of hits:



The link below includes the text:

As soon as the light turns red on the console, the driver releases the accelerator and applies the brake. The reaction time is measured. This form of testing is often called simple reaction time, as it is a result of a single stimulus, the red light. Reaction times are typically on the order of 3/4 of a second.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Tracket,



And for a more authoritative source, the National Safety Council, see the following quote and link:

Average reaction time, according to the National Safety Council, is 3/4 of a second. At 60 miles an hour, for example, you'll travel 66 feet in that period of time. At that speed you'll need 162 to 202 feet to bring your car to a complete stop.

P.S. I think I was first introduced to this stat taking my first defensive driving course.

 

[gary s]

after 2 years and 45K, didn't experience that problem in my 07.

 

[MikeSondra Grossen]

I have always been a 2 foot driver. It all started in my first car when I had to keep one foot on the gas and one on the brake to keep the car running at stop signs. (2 rebuilt carbs, new fuel line and new gas tank took care of that, stupid rust!) I got in the habit and is just natural now. As far as right or wrong, I think whatever you are most comfortable with is the safest. I know I have tried to do one foot, but it just does not feel right and I actually have to think about it. I can hop in my Cobra with the manual tranny can have no problem switching over.

 

[Bill Barber]

You really have no choice with a manual, just becomes second nature.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

svt1848 said:

I think whatever you are most comfortable with is the safest.

Again, not necessarily. The one-foot method gives no ability for one to ride the brakes all the time. The two-footed method allows for that. I've traveled behind a few folks in my day that have the brake lights on literally "all the time". They either have defective wiring/sensor, OR they are using two feet with one resting on the brake enough for the lights to be on.



For those people and that situation it is not safe at all. Having brake lights that are on all the time is like having no brake lights at all....and that is a big safety issue.



TJR

 

[Kevin Lang]

TJR, even if they are riding the brake with the 2 footed method, they will still likely be able to brake fully when they need to in the same or less than your 3/4ths of a second response time, as they are accustomed to brake by 2nd foot subconsciously. Muscle Memory, if you will.



However, as svt1848 says, if a 2 footer drives one footed, then the 2 footer will have to actually think about transitioning between pedals, and having to think about it will slow the reaction time, leading to an unsafe situation.



When you follow someone, you cannot rely on their brakelights to know when to slow down before giving their ride an enema. If they brake with their 2 foot method, they will slow down in a normal manner which will give you time to stop also, but if they have to think about braking, slowing the process, they might stop without enough time for you to react and stop without colliding.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

R1ch999999 said: "My left foot works the clutch!"



KL said: "So you're one of the very few to have a manual ST?"



Me too! :banana: I brake with the right foot, and the left works the clutch. Never had a problem with accidentally hitting the e-brake as they are too far apart.