Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Richard L said:
Maybe not, anymore, but there was a time.
The Irish seemed to have evolved to get over their oppressed past. Wish more minorities could
TJR
OT: Political Poll - Racist or Not Racist?
- Thread starter Thomas Rogers
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Richard L said:
Maybe not, anymore, but there was a time.
The Irish seemed to have evolved to get over their oppressed past. Wish more minorities could
TJR
Shaun Tucker
Well-Known Member
As did the Scots, but they wont let the English forget it
Bill V
Well-Known Member
According to whom? The US government? The NAACP? The NAAIP?
As TJR pointed out, the Irish once definitely were oppressed.
Are the Jews classified as an oppressed minority? How about Christians? (Lots of people on this site like to claim that they are.) Who gets to determine those classifications?
Is it the Irish who have evolved, or is it those who once oppressed them? I submit that it was the latter, as much, if not more, than the former. And I still submit that in still-existing cases of oppressed minorities, it is the oppressors who need to evolve as much as the oppressees.
Actually the Irish became cops and beat the living hell out of all those that tried to opress them.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bill V,
Who gets to determined who is oppressed, discriminated against, or the butt of racism...those that feel they are the ones targeted. And, some here would say that THEY, and THEY ALONE solely get to make that determination.
I say that's way too convenient.
You guys been following the Cracker Barrell beating in GA? I haven't heard the latest, but when it went down it was being called a "hate crime", and it would garner stiffer penalties because of the hate crime nature.
M'kay, so if it were a white man hitting a white woman, and instead of calling her Ni66er he called her "trailer trash", or "redneck", or even "stupid fat bltch" would it still be a hate crime deserving stiffer penalties? Would it be any less hateful?
TJR
Who gets to determined who is oppressed, discriminated against, or the butt of racism...those that feel they are the ones targeted. And, some here would say that THEY, and THEY ALONE solely get to make that determination.
I say that's way too convenient.
You guys been following the Cracker Barrell beating in GA? I haven't heard the latest, but when it went down it was being called a "hate crime", and it would garner stiffer penalties because of the hate crime nature.
M'kay, so if it were a white man hitting a white woman, and instead of calling her Ni66er he called her "trailer trash", or "redneck", or even "stupid fat bltch" would it still be a hate crime deserving stiffer penalties? Would it be any less hateful?
TJR
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Good point, TJR. Hate crime laws are essentially nothing more than a means of criminalizing thought (i.e. "thought police").
In my opinion, they're completely unnecessary because in most states, the actions prosecuted under "hate crimes" laws are prosecutable under other existing laws.
In my opinion, they're completely unnecessary because in most states, the actions prosecuted under "hate crimes" laws are prosecutable under other existing laws.
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Andy Chase
Well-Known Member
That may be true, but if it is classified as a hate crime, the punishment is increased if I'm not mistaken.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Andy, that's the point. Who is to say that a so-called hate crime is any more or less hateful than the same crime presumably without the element of hate?
If a thief calls an effemenate (sp?) man "fag" as he robs him then it is a hate crime with stiffer penalties. But if he calls the same person a "geek", or a "wimp", or a "bastard", then it probably won't be labled a hate crime. But presumable the former is somehow more reprehensible and hateful than the latter given our current climate.
That's why TrainTrac says it goes to "thought police", and then as I said way above back to the intent of the words used by the offender.
I grew up in a generation where a lot of things were called: "gay", or guys used the term "fag" or "queer" to cut on their friends. It wasn't hate-filled at all. But, again, it seems WE don't get to define what it is that we mean when we create an image, or speak certain words.
Watching "Curb Your Enthusiam" season 6 right now, and Larry is getting in deep crap for repeating someone elses use of the N-word. Seems those overhearing him say it won't let him explain what he means and why he was saying it.
TJR
If a thief calls an effemenate (sp?) man "fag" as he robs him then it is a hate crime with stiffer penalties. But if he calls the same person a "geek", or a "wimp", or a "bastard", then it probably won't be labled a hate crime. But presumable the former is somehow more reprehensible and hateful than the latter given our current climate.
That's why TrainTrac says it goes to "thought police", and then as I said way above back to the intent of the words used by the offender.
I grew up in a generation where a lot of things were called: "gay", or guys used the term "fag" or "queer" to cut on their friends. It wasn't hate-filled at all. But, again, it seems WE don't get to define what it is that we mean when we create an image, or speak certain words.
Watching "Curb Your Enthusiam" season 6 right now, and Larry is getting in deep crap for repeating someone elses use of the N-word. Seems those overhearing him say it won't let him explain what he means and why he was saying it.
TJR
Shaun Tucker
Well-Known Member
TJR.
I love, Love, LOVE that show.
I love, Love, LOVE that show.
Jews have been oppressed for thousands of years by various people and nations. Most muslim and arab nations have a long hatred of Jews, and since they declaired their independence and now occupy the land they do, and rule over the Palasinians. While they are not oppressed now, they were oppressed prior to 1948 and especially in Europe during WWII. Of course there are some people who don't believe the Holocost ever happened?
Irish were oppressed in certain larger towns like Boston and New York, but so were many other immigrants from other countries. Many Irish left Ireland because of the potato blight and the famine that followed. They were all poor and came to this country with little or nothing. Not to different from the large Hispanic population we have now, except the Irish enter the country legally. Many Mexicans entered illegally. That is probably why Hispanics are considered an oppressed minority because their own country does nothing to assist them, so the sneak into the USA for jobs and a better quality of life.
Most of the immigrants were about to eek out a living and eventually advance themselves. Since there is no noticable racial differnece, the language barrier was their main problem. Once they learned some English and showed that many were fine craftsman and intelligent people they were excepted into American socienty, but there are still some biggots who don't realize that most of their ancestors came from somewhere else too.
...Rich
Irish were oppressed in certain larger towns like Boston and New York, but so were many other immigrants from other countries. Many Irish left Ireland because of the potato blight and the famine that followed. They were all poor and came to this country with little or nothing. Not to different from the large Hispanic population we have now, except the Irish enter the country legally. Many Mexicans entered illegally. That is probably why Hispanics are considered an oppressed minority because their own country does nothing to assist them, so the sneak into the USA for jobs and a better quality of life.
Most of the immigrants were about to eek out a living and eventually advance themselves. Since there is no noticable racial differnece, the language barrier was their main problem. Once they learned some English and showed that many were fine craftsman and intelligent people they were excepted into American socienty, but there are still some biggots who don't realize that most of their ancestors came from somewhere else too.
...Rich
