Oil heading over $200/barrel?

[Kevin Lang]

Oh well--we already get most of our oil from canada, so the sharing wouldn't really impact us much.



Though it seems like everything in America is going metric--the 20 oz bottle has been phased out for the 1 litre bottle, for example, as if part of the (stupid) bush initiative to create the north american union. Though if it left out mexico, that might not be so bad....but vat and health care would get old fast.



Tangenting, why has everything subtly become Metric? Coca-cola said it was too costly years before...

 

[Roger Batts]

They're sneaking the metric system back in so they can screw us over even more! Some of the things that have gone metric stayed the same price, but decreased in package volume. Look at the six-pack plastic bottles of Coca Cola at the supermarket, then look at the Pepsi ones. The Coke bottles are smaller, but usually the SAME PRICE!!! Pepsi still sells the 20oz bottle in the six-pack, but Coke doesn't. They sell the 1/2 liter bottle.

 

[Bill V]

Speaking of that, didn't they just find a large oil well off the coast of brazil?

They "just found a large oil well"? Who built it? Aliens? And was there actual oil accompanying it, or was it just the well itself? :lol::lol::lol: just teasing

 

[Fudged Undies]

Oil production is projected to hit its peak in the next two years. Conservative estimates have crude oil depleted within about 35 years after that, more aggressive estimates only 20 years

These "predictions" have been being made since the early 80's when I was in grade school. I don't think oil will disappear in most of our lifetimes.

 

[Tom Schindler]

When they say we are running out of oil, they are technically correct. They are running out of oil in places they are drilling oil at.



It is like saying you are out of water in the house, but there is a well right below you.



Are you out of water or do you have water you can get but don't want to drill for it.





Tom

 

[Jeff C]

We've mapped approximately 2% of Earth's crust (according to my geology professor) and to say we are running out is saying we're running out of what we've tapped. Think of a beer keg at a party. You can tell when it's getting low, and it eventually does run out. You can take up a collection when it nears the bottom and it will cost people more money if they want more beer, or you can move the party and drink someone else's beer. We have our own beer at home (the US) chillin in the keggerator (reserves) and we're out drinking other people's beer. When it becomes too expensive to drink other people's beer, you come back home and drink your own, or find another party to go to.



So who's gonna be the first person to make a crack on the college student to compare the modern oil market to a bunch of keg parties? :lol: BTW, it's penny beer tonight at my favorite bar...

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Remember folks, the main issue isn't so much about running out of crude, but that demand will keep increasing, supply of low-cost, easy to get crude will keep dropping, and therefore prices will go through the roof...

 

[Richard L]

New oil refineries are no being built because nobody wants one in their backyard. However there are ongoing expansion of the existiing refinery capacity. The corporation that I work for has already expanded our market into the Beaumont/Houston Texas area because of the Billions of dollars being pumped into the expansion of the refineries in that area. I'm sure the other refineries are expanding productions as well.



While we may blame the oil companies for reaping the profits from the high demand for oil and gas,, we cannot blame them for the high cost of oil on the world economy. The only ones we can blame are the members of OPEC who decide the number of barrels of oil that will be produced. OPEC's production quotas and the higher demand for oil as many third-world countries evolve into larger energy consumers and are competeing for more oil to meet their demands.



The problem with oil is that it will evenually be non-existant because it is not a renewable source, and we will eventually run out. When that will happen is anybody guess and I don't think the so-called experts even know. The fact that we are using the oil in such increasing quantities would clearly indicate that we will run out of oil much faster than we ever thought we could.



We need to come up with viable, renewable energy sources. My best guess right now would be either hydrogen or some other form of electrical production like solor, wind, or water power. We also need to develop equipment that requires less energy to operate so we have enough energy for everything.



The Government needs to step in and provide meaniful tax incentives for any and all companies to develpe viable alternative energy products, and innovative ways to pruduce and distribute energy that does not require or depend on fossil fuels, and does not require the use of food sources to generate fuels like alcohol.



I think an interim soluton might be to ration gas, oil and electrical energy...Even water should be a controled commodity. Residential buildings will be able to be use up to a certain amount of gas, electric and water paid for at a very nominal rate. When you exceed your allotment of energy, you are required to pay a very high fee for excessive usage. If you exceed the excessive level, you you may even pay a much higher charge for even the basic ration and a much higher charge for excessive-excessive usage.



Since we know that there are people who have more money than brains they will pay a much higher price for excessive ussage wich will offset the low cost energy being used by the people who are not exceeding there basic ration.



As an example: Lets just say that you are given a 1000 KWHrs ration of electricity each month fo ryour jome or appartment, and if you do not exceed the basic allowance of 1000KWHrs you will be charged only 7 cents per KWHr, and your maximum bill would not exceed $70 per month. If you exceed your basic 1000KWHrs ration, but do not exceed 2000 KWHrs, you will be charged 14 cents (double) for each KWhr over the 1000 KWHrs basic ration. If you exceed the 2000KWHs level, they you would be charged 28 cents for each KWHr over 2000 KWHr. If you have a health issue that requires you to run special medical equipment, you can get a waiver for a larger ration of electricity.



This same measure would apply to gasoline, natural gas, LP gas, etc. Everyone can buy energy at a reasonable and affordable rate if we choose to conserve. If we exceed our allotment of energy, we will pay much more for our excessive usage If the excessive usage fees are escalated high enough, people like Al Gore who uses more electricity than 10 average households will be paying 10 times more for his electricity than he is now and will more than pay for 100 homes to have the cheaper electicity rates.



Gasoline rationing could easly be controlled by the use of a Credit card like ration card. You put in y

 

[Kevin Lang]

Wow rich, let's go back to world war 2 rations....though it sounds to me more like communism. Each person gets their "fair share". Let's just destroy the few founding principles of America that still exist. :wacko:



You want "renewable energy"? Try this. Go to the graves of our founding fathers, and rig a simple generator to them, as they are spinning in their graves, and will continue to do so for all of the foreseeable future



ExxonMobile said that they were purposefully producing less oil than they could, so any "refinery expansion" is just a facade.



Oil may not eventually run out--the "fossil fuel" notion is gradually being dismissed and oil is just another product of compression, like diamonds, and we won't truly run out. Eventually more will come, even if we do suck up the rest that is in the 98% of the earth that is still unmapped.



Wind Power? Solar Power? Come on. Wind Turbines can only be placed in certain areas, they have little output, and you can't put all that many in the areas where they can be used. Solar Power? Pfft. A while ago a link to solar power for your home information was posted on here, and the most efficient panel available had a 12% efficiency! That is crap. To power an "average" house, the cost of these panels was 50,000 dollars. The average house is also said to not be sustainable soley by solar power due to exposure problems, so the prevailing solution is to get more solar power than you currently need, store the excess in a battery bank, and then run off the battery bank when the sun isn't shining down on us. That costs over 100,000 dollars to install, and consumes a large amount of property.



I can't afford 100,000 for solar panels..





1000 kilowatt hours? WTF?! A 100 watt lightbulb uses one tenth of a kilowatt hour! 10 lightbulbs on for an hour is 1 kilowatt hour! So in addition to our lightbulbs, we have pools, air conditioning, power tools, fans, computers, tvs, microwaves, and all the other conveniences of modern life running on power, which has to be limited to under 1000 kilowatt hours.



Oh yeah, since the electric meter isn't a great way to measure your consumption and evaluate how you can reduce it, people will have to buy specialized meters and those "energy saver" plugs for their freezers and such. Just an even greater expense, and I'm sure the "demand" will cause the prices of such accessories to skyrocket.



You don't want us to choose to conserve--you want us to "choose" to conserve, by forcing our hand with economic penalties!



"For everyone to find this common ground, we will all have to give up a little" And what defines "a little".



Welcome to communism. Thoughts like that are why America is in jeopardy of not lasting past 50 presidents.

 

[Johnny O]

What is becoming evident is that it doesn't matter how much we conserve because China and India will just suck it up anyway.

 

[Jeff C]

it is not a renewable source

Then how'd it get there in the first place?

 

[Richard L]

Kevin,

Rationing is not communism, and it did work during WWII and it is very normal for our military people in many overseas areas. If nothing is done, only the rich people will be able to afford to heat their homes and run their vehicles ets. It's only fair that the more energy you use, the more you pay since you are the one making the most demands.



There are places that are running low on water similar to the energy crunch and demands for water are increasing. Places like Las Vegas are some of the fastest growing communities, but they are quickly running out of water to support this rapid growth. At some point you cannot allow the people who have more money than brains buy up all the water, or energy resources.



We have converted an energy shortage to a food shortage by converting corn to alcohol to fuel our vehicles At some point the poor will rebel against the rich unless something is done.



It is not communism to require kids to go to school until they are at least 16 years old. It's not communism to tax rich people at a higher rate than poor people. It's not communism to pay a luxury tax on jewelry, yahts, etc since we do that now, and had done so for many years. Some large luxury cars have a gas-guzzler tax and nobody thinks its communism.



Rationing of energy does not limit the amount of energy you use, only the amount you pay for excessive use. That just makes it a a Usage tax very similar to taxes on liquor, cigarettes, toll roads, and vehicle registration/taxes. If you don't use those items, you don't have to pay. They already have the Universal Telephone Fees which are nothing more than a tax so that people who cannot normally pay for telephone service can get free or discounted telephone service. My proposal is just to allow people with limited budgets or income to be able to have a resonalbe amount of energy and water in their home so they can have light, and heat, and operate cooking appliances.



My example of 1000KWHrs was not intended to be an accurate estimation of the amount of electrical consumption required to power a home. It was intended to only represent a number that was simple to relate to and not reqire a calculator to to do some simple math. The point was that there needs to be a basic allotment for energy and if you exceed what is deemed a normal limit, you will pay significantly more, and if you exceed that you will pay at a much higher rate.



My home is all electric and consumes between 2000 and 4000 KWH of electricity per month depending upon the season and outside temperature In months where little or no AC or heat is needed I have my lowest bills, and during the hottest months I get my highes bills due to the use of the central AC. In the winter I have a heat pump, but with the amount of sunshine in the winter here in Texas, I don't use that much energy for heat, plus I prefer to keep the house fairl cool in the winter anyway.



The electricity numbers were only used to show that if you kept within the basic allotment of energy usage low, you could save a lot of money. This would also act as an incentive to conserve energy, invest in more efficient light bulbs, appliances etc. This also makes it more likely that people with more money than brains will understand that they will pay a much higher price for there extravigant use of energy. This will also help reduce our overall demand for energy.



Simply put, the energy crisis is not a lack of oil or sources of engergy, it's a lack of money to pay for the energy they need because the demand is driving up the prices. What is wrong with people who demand more energy to pay more for the excess energy they use, and those who are frugal with their use of energy are rewarded with lower energy cost. And the great part is that anybody can take advantage of the lower energy costs, by just cutting back on the amount of energy they used...So everybody is eligable

 

[Kevin Lang]

Ah, Carbon Emissions. For emissions, mankind is still woefully behind Krakatoa and Mount St. Helen. Krakatoa made a year without a summer. Mankind still hasn't done that, and never will....mankind excluding india and china, as they're liable to do anything.

They already have the Universal Telephone Fees which are nothing more than a tax so that people who cannot normally pay for telephone service can get free or discounted telephone service

That's socialism. Why should I pay so that others who cannot pay can have what I am paying for? That's crap. "If you no pay, you no get!" Though now I know what that stupid tax is for



All of this is giving up our freedom and scarily growing close to the Hillary quote on common ground. Your examples use the military, but in the military you give up your freedoms to ensure those of others...but you'd have us give up our freedoms to do what? Protect the interests of china and india as we allow them more fuel to use and better industry as they won't be limiting themselves with pollution mandates as stringent as we are?



Those retarded compact fluorescents suck. They claim to never burn out, but I've gone through 5, and one even melted most of the base when it burned out...a little too close to mercury poisoning for my tastes.



Energy prices are going up primarily due to asinine wall street hedging their money in oil and other commodities. Historically, has wall street ever done anything outstandingly constructive?

 

[Johnny O]

Kevin, a huge deposit of oil up in the Dakotas was just recently discovered. They predict that it's even bigger than the reserves in Texas and Louisiana. It spreads up into Canada, too, so if we do get to drill for it, we will more than likely have to share it with our northern neighbor.

Only if the Sierra Club and Audobon Society don't file lawsuits keeping us from going after it.

 

[Kevin Lang]

Only if the Sierra Club and Audobon Society don't file lawsuits keeping us from going after it.

By now oil prices are starting to get high enough to make the fact that a congressman was against drilling for oil to save birds or whatnot evidence enough to cost him reelection. The ire of the common man might be able to overpower the influence of the whimsical rich who empower those stupid organizations.



If there is anything environmental to be fought against, it is not saving swamp (excuse me, wetland) or birds in some remote corner of the earth, or emissions (tho that is important), it is needless development. Pollution, erosion, animal habitats...all of these problems would be fixed if the rampant and needless demolition of forests for acres of townhouses was halted. Sadly, the environmental groups don't consider that solution

 

[Richard L]

Kevin,

The kind of rationing I am talking about is not socialism or communism. You will not be paying for anyone elses energy usage. Only if you use more than your alloted ration of energy will you be charged a higher rate. So it works just like you said, if you don't use it you don't have to pay for it.



How would you feel if all the billionaires like Bill Gates started buying up all the gas, oile and electricity and drove up the prices because of their demand to hog more than their share. Well that's what's going on now except it's not Bill Gates, it the other countries now demanding more oil and energy as they try to join the industrial age.



My proposal is not much different than, and far less restrictive than the 1973 gas shortage. During that period, the price was not as much of an issue as was the availability of gas. Gas stations had cars lined up for blocks to get gas and they would run out before they got to the pumps. They implimented a rationing system where you could only buy $10.00 worth of gas (that was about a full tank for most standard cars). This eliminated the people who had more money than brains from putting 55 gallon drums in the back of their pickups hogging all the gas.



Also, you could only buy gas on an odd or even day depending upon the last digit of you license plate number. If you did not have any numbers in your plates, then they letters were assigned numbers based on their alphabetical sequence number.



So my idea of rationing is not to make you pay for someone elses energy usage, but forces you to pay more if you use more than your reasonable share of energy.



Freedom is very precious to me. The pursuit of our rights to Life Liberty and Happyness requires that we live in o society where we need to fallow some rules of order so that everyone can pursuit they life, liberty and happyness. If we let others buy or steal the basic necessities that others need to be part of our society then they are interfering with their right to life, liberty and happiness.



...Rich

 

[Kevin Lang]

Why should we ration ourselves so that other countries can have more? Global communism.



Your closing line is to me a paraphrase of hillary's socialist "common ground" quote, except you are taking lines from the Declaration of Independence, a document which modern politicians seem to have forgotten about.



How would I feel if Gates bought all the gas? Feelings are pathos, and that's the main technique used to push socialism. Gates cannot buy all the gasoline that there is, and if he tried, well, he wouldn't be a billionaire much longer



Gates buying all the oil is his prerogative and doing so would be following the rules of our society. We have the liberty to buy as much as we can afford. Capitalism worked for over a hundred years, making us The world superpower...only once we started to change that did we fall from grace. Your system is not capitalism. Why don't we just go back to capitalism and let it do what it was intended to do, instead of creating intricate schemes to try and do what capitalism does naturally?



If we go with your proposal, we will pave the way to becomming a socialist state. If we subsequently wall off Mexico, we'll become the USSR...the united states socialist republic. At that point, we might as well raise the sickle and hammer and sing praise to Mother America.



Sadly, any of the 3 candidates which have a significant chance of winning the Presidency could implement your plan. Let me know when your plan is going into action, so I can take my own action accordingly.

 

[Roger Batts]

Just remember what one of our Founding Fathers, Benjamin Franklin, said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[Richard L]

Even my rationing proposal would not stop Bill Gates from buying up all the oil, he would just pay more for it.



Your argument agains rationing would only allow other countries to buy more oil is the same as not conserving the engergy we do buy because we want to increase the demand and cost....So other countries can't buy it?? That's stupid!



First of all the Countries are not buying the oil it's businesses that refine the oil for different purposes and needs in many different countries. Oil is just another commodity on the market. reducing consumption only reduces the demand and cost for the oil.



Allowing outsiders to control the destiny and economy of the United States like OPEC is doing cannot continue if we expect to keep our freedom. I would rather ration energy and other necessities than have to go to war and take what we want. That's basicly what started WWII. the US put an embargo and Japan restricting their importing of oil rubber and steel, and they retaliated by attacking Pearl Harbor and numerous other locations in the Pacific.



...Rich

 

[Johnny O]

By now oil prices are starting to get high enough to make the fact that a congressman was against drilling for oil to save birds or whatnot evidence enough to cost him reelection. The ire of the common man might be able to overpower the influence of the whimsical rich who empower those stupid organizations.

We can only hope.

I email my two Senators monthly (1 Dem, 1 RINO), asking them to allow drilling and if they think they've ruined the economy enough yet.

The Dems have always been perfectly okay with $4 a gallon gas as long as it's the govt getting the extra money. How much longer they can fool most of the public is anyone's guess.