kcobra302 78
Active Member
check this st out
now were talkin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter kcobra302 78
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Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
I hope it costs less than $8,000 to do. Otherwise, for the money, it's Brenspeed Saleen supercharged all the way baby!
5.0 have forged internals or something?
5.0 have forged internals or something?
A K
Well-Known Member
The guy doing the swap has a running thread on EF. His interior work on the shifter for the manual MT82 is art.
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Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
Nice work.
Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
This will be a very fun vehicle.
I'd LOVE to go manual tran in my truck and I would do it in a second if someone came out with a 4.6L 6R80 to manual tran conversion kit.
However, as far as buying this 5.0L conversion...I just don't see how it would be more cost effective than a supercharger. The powertrain alone would exceed the full, OTD price of the conversion. The other issue is that it doesn't make as much power. I put down to the rollers what this 5.0 does at the crank.
Now...if the 5.0 has forged internals...that is a different story. You go forced induction and get tons of boost. Way beyond what the OEM internal 4.6L 3v can handle. From what I understand, it's a pretty high compression engine so maybe forced induction would not be the best option?
I don't know...I just don't see any benifit to this over a supercharger. I have to admit that I'm a little bias though!
I'd LOVE to go manual tran in my truck and I would do it in a second if someone came out with a 4.6L 6R80 to manual tran conversion kit.
However, as far as buying this 5.0L conversion...I just don't see how it would be more cost effective than a supercharger. The powertrain alone would exceed the full, OTD price of the conversion. The other issue is that it doesn't make as much power. I put down to the rollers what this 5.0 does at the crank.
Now...if the 5.0 has forged internals...that is a different story. You go forced induction and get tons of boost. Way beyond what the OEM internal 4.6L 3v can handle. From what I understand, it's a pretty high compression engine so maybe forced induction would not be the best option?
I don't know...I just don't see any benifit to this over a supercharger. I have to admit that I'm a little bias though!
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Robert Caffyn
Well-Known Member
At this point, Steve Schrader has a lot of bugs to work out. Nearly all luxury items will still work(A/C, PS, etc.) you will lose the function of the message center and idiot lights in the dash. Right now the complete swap(crate engine, trans, elec. fans, custom acces. brackets and a few more things) will be about $20,000. He is hoping to get the price under that. They hope to have the final, consumer package ready in the spring. A S/C option will be made available, the engine will make "insane power" in this version(700-850bhp). Just thought you might want to know what he's up to. Bob
Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
$20,000 dumped into a forged 4.6L will blow that out of the water and retain all your gauges, MSG center and more. You could buy the very best components, the best heads, a built transmission, massive 3.4L whipple and you could see 700whp without breaking a sweat.
Im pretty shocked he bothered to do this conversion at all. It's cool to be different but this project is really not worth it.
It's a cool project but I'd like to see him do a fully built long block at 20+psi instead.
Im pretty shocked he bothered to do this conversion at all. It's cool to be different but this project is really not worth it.
It's a cool project but I'd like to see him do a fully built long block at 20+psi instead.
I would challenge that hands down - 446 to the wheels - mid 550 to the flywheel all for under $8000, the finished look really needs to compliment the power - Not sure why a 6 speed would excite anyone in this heavy machine - a Mustang is much more suitable for this owner - I agree with Carey
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Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
Dollar for dollar, you would get MUCH more out of a fully built 4.6 with Forced induction.
The 4.6 will never be. 5.0.....but the 5.0 will never be the 4.6 either!
The 4.6 will never be. 5.0.....but the 5.0 will never be the 4.6 either!
The 5.0 is legendary. The 4.6 is a good engine Ford has used.
I have a 351W in my '69 Cougar. A good build can get over 600 hp naturally aspirated for around $14k. A crate Boss will cost roughly the same. I could park my 600 hp 351 car next to an identical bodied car with a Boss 302 producing 450 hp and guess which one is going to get more attention at a car show. It's still not a Boss 302, and I'm ok with that.
I'm not trying to say anything negative about the 4.6, or the logical reasons to build one or the other. I'm just saying the 5.0 holds a special place in the automotive world. It produces excitement where the 4.6 would get walked by with a shrug and nod of approval. It doesn't have to make sense, dollar-wise or power-wise; it's just the way it is.
I have a 351W in my '69 Cougar. A good build can get over 600 hp naturally aspirated for around $14k. A crate Boss will cost roughly the same. I could park my 600 hp 351 car next to an identical bodied car with a Boss 302 producing 450 hp and guess which one is going to get more attention at a car show. It's still not a Boss 302, and I'm ok with that.
I'm not trying to say anything negative about the 4.6, or the logical reasons to build one or the other. I'm just saying the 5.0 holds a special place in the automotive world. It produces excitement where the 4.6 would get walked by with a shrug and nod of approval. It doesn't have to make sense, dollar-wise or power-wise; it's just the way it is.
Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
What we are talking about...is the hp/dollar value of this 5.0L conversion at $20,000 versus a supercharged 4.6 or even a fully built 4.6.
No question a 4.6GT versus this gen 5.0L Gt would be no contest. And no one is making the "which one is more legendary" argument and no one is going to dispute the greatness of the 5.0 versus the 4.6.
We're talking in relevance to modified gen2 ST V8s.
If you want to go spend $20,000 to put your memories into your NA 5.0L STA... and still be inferior to $20,000 worth of forged, supercharged 4.6.....go for it. You just get more for your money, going FI in a gen 2 ST versus this 5.0L conversion.
No question a 4.6GT versus this gen 5.0L Gt would be no contest. And no one is making the "which one is more legendary" argument and no one is going to dispute the greatness of the 5.0 versus the 4.6.
We're talking in relevance to modified gen2 ST V8s.
If you want to go spend $20,000 to put your memories into your NA 5.0L STA... and still be inferior to $20,000 worth of forged, supercharged 4.6.....go for it. You just get more for your money, going FI in a gen 2 ST versus this 5.0L conversion.
Money isn't a concern for everyone. The dollar for dollar gain isn't the biggest factor in all builds. Otherwise, there'd be no Honda Civic drag cars.
Personally, I don't think there is a better sounding engine than the 4.6L.
Personally, I don't think there is a better sounding engine than the 4.6L.
Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
That's very true but it does't change any of the facts. Although...I can't think of a single build, on any of the SVT sites that I subscribe to, that someone has opted to go with a VASTLY more expensive option, that yields lower results, just for the sake of doing it.
We all "get" why he is doing the conversion. However, he wants to sell this. He wants to make money. I can promise you that this $20,000 conversion will be a giant flop. It will flop because you can get far more for far less. That's the bottom line and the CORE of my opinion. I cannot dispute that the 5.0L is an absolute monster and a legend.
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Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
I wasn't 100% sold on this until I head Supercharged SVT's dyno run. That is the most amazing sound I've ever heard.
Carey Frennier
Well-Known Member
Now this is a cool build. TT T3 fully fabricated. Supposed to run between 8-10psi. They have been engineering this for months.
Robin Cox
Active Member
I love the manual tranny and if I could afford the mods on the 4.6, I could afford the mods on the 5.0 and along with the 6 speed tranny, I think I would go the 5.0 route. Plus down the road what will come of mods for the 5.0. The missed items on the display are really not of total need anyway!
Robert Caffyn
Well-Known Member
Wonder what a trannie swap would cost out the door? Would it maintain the 4wd or not? Have to call him and find out. I mean, just do a top end on the 4.6(approx. 425-430bhp) with the 6 speed. That could be a pretty fun ride! Just a thought. Bob :driving:
kcobra302 78
Active Member
since the 5.0 and 4.6 do share geometry, i dont see why the auto on the st could not be used or use the auto and the ecm out of the donor car as a package.
the standard 5.0 in the mustang and f150 does not have all forged internals. however the 5.0 in the boss mustangs do and it offers 444hp at the crank. still not supercharger territory but much improved over the 4.6
my original post was not to encite which engine or which power adder was better. it was nice to see someone in the st community using the 5.0. since this engine became available all you see is how to install it every verison of the mustang or street rod.
the standard 5.0 in the mustang and f150 does not have all forged internals. however the 5.0 in the boss mustangs do and it offers 444hp at the crank. still not supercharger territory but much improved over the 4.6
my original post was not to encite which engine or which power adder was better. it was nice to see someone in the st community using the 5.0. since this engine became available all you see is how to install it every verison of the mustang or street rod.
blksn8k
Well-Known Member
If Ford does not come out with some form of a smaller-than-F-150 real truck in the next couple of years I would consider doing a 5.0L naturally aspirated swap in my ST. I doubt I would add the expense of a manual trans swap so that should reduce the cost considerably. There will eventually be a good selection of bone yard 5.0s as well. I am glad someone has taken on the task of figuring out the electronics of a swap like this. What we really need is a wiring harness kit since the rest should be available elsewhere. I am also not sold on the expense or reliability of supercharging a 4.6, especially for daily driver use.
