My engine died! Ford say's I need a new one.

[Chris Pinzone]

It's not your fault that your engine died!! 7K miles between oil changes is nothing!



Your engine died because Ford engines are built like CRAP! I know because the engine on my 2001 Sport Trac just croaked too! And it doesn't matter how well you take care of the engine, it can't prevent it! This is the fourth and last new Ford that I buy that needed an engine! Here's the list:



1981 Escort - 5000 miles and dead engine

1984 Ranger - 10000 miles and dead engine

1997 F150 - 52000 miles and dead engine

2001 Sport Trac - 93000 miles and dead engine



OK, maybe I'm getting farther along each time but come on!! These were all dealer maintained, every 3K mile oil changed, pampered vehicles!! I put 190000 on my VW bug, 95000 on my big block Chrysler, and 250000 on a straight six Chevy! What gives?!!



Tell your dealer its their fault and if he tells you no, say that you want to talk to the regional Ford rep! The dealers always told me it was my fault even though they saw the vehicle every few months! I got them to make good on the first 3 vehicles, this one I'm biting the bullet myself and picked up a good used motor for $500.!!!



:angry:

 

[Tom Schindler]

All the vehicles listed below were in prefect running order when sold, or we still have them.



1998 Grand Am 96,000 miles

1992 Escort GT 138,000 miles

1993 Thunderbird LX 97,000 miles

1996 Escort GT 94,000 miles

2002 Sport Trac 59,000 miles

1999 Explorer 145,000 miles

1997 Explorer 135,000 miles

1992 F-150 245,000 miles

1993 Ford Van 325,000 miles



I could go on, but why bother? Maybe the problem isn't the vehicle, just the driver behind the wheel.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

>> Maybe the problem isn't the vehicle, just the driver behind the wheel.



Making friends and influencing people again, hey Tom?



I have had two American-made vehicles have head-gaskets go, both under 60K miles. One, a 1981 Ford Escort (aluminum heads...bad design maybe???) and the other a 1989 GMC S-15 with the Chevy vortec 6 (really, really narrow widths between cylinders making it prone to a gasket fault...again, maybe a bad design???).



I find that unacceptable, and I am not "tough" on cars.



Replacing head gaskets is not cheap, nor should it be considered an "owner serviceable" part, like a belt or wipers so please don't lecture about how it's a cheap fix, because not everyone has an investment in tools and know-how, or even have the desire to do such maintenance.



I blame planned obsolescence. I conjecture that most people who bought American cars, until recently, put up with poor reliability after 50K miles because they thought "that's just the way it is". Thus the designs that went into the cars reflected that "good enough and expect failure" mentality. I still see that mentality on this board, what with the belief that "all cars will likely have costly problems between 36K and 100K miles and therefore you better get an extended warranty". It just shouldn't be that way folks. Not for something you pay $30K.



Quality has improved in the past decade especially as the "Big Three" got their lunch eaten by imports, but old habits die hard.



TJR

 

[2]

Yup, if you want interesting reading, check out F150online and go to the 2004/2005 section. The new 'special' spark plug that Ford has in the F150 5.4L is seizing on trucks at around 30,000 miles. You have to pull the head to get the plugs out. Go FORD. They are 100,000 mile plugs so I am hoping that my truck will be at the end of it's lease before they need replacement. Another example of great quality.

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



I have never purchased an extended warranty and I never will. I do not accept costly repairs between 50,000 and 100,000 miles. I do accept the fact that I abuse my vehicles. I over load them, drive too fast, pull too much weight, brake too quickly, don't let them warm up before getting on it. Anything that breaks is my fault. I can't blame Ford if I break a spring because I have 2500 LBS in the bed. I can't blame Ford when I have 8,000 LBS behind me on my trailer and my frame gets bent. I can't blame Ford if I swerve off the road and hit a curb going 60 MPH and break something.



The first Escorts did have problems. IIRC, it was one of the first Aluminum head engines Ford was building and were learning. My uncle had one of the first Honda CVCC's in the USA. That car was nothing but a pile of junk, plain and simple. Unfortunatly, you do not hear anyone complaing about that car, but you hear complaints all about the first Escorts. Why is that? Perception? When the Hyundai Excel first came out, it was a pile of crap. People think Hyundai is the cats meow. Again, perception. People say Yugo's were junk. A guy Dad worked with had 4 of them. He drove 100 miles each way to work. That is 1,000 miles a week. Each of them lasted well over 200,000 miles without even changing the spark plugs. Junk? People still laugh about Yugo cars and what big piles of crap they were. Why is that? Why did he buy a Yugo? Because he could get one for $4,000 brand spankin' new.



As for your Vortec V6 S-15 you had. Was it a 4.3L? As far as I know, the Vortec was only available in the 4.3L. You do know a 4.3l is nothing more then a 350 with two cylinders lopped off...right? A good friend had a 2.8L S-10. He drove it well over 250,000 miles. Not one single problem. For every bad experience with a vehicle, 100+ people have good experiences.



My father used to only buy VW Bugs. He actually owned 4 of them. One he ordered here in the USA and flew to Wolfsburg, W. germany to pick it up. Drove it around Europe, then shipped it home. When VW replaced the bug with the Rabbit he got himself a Datsun Truck. His own brother finally talked him into buying a Ford. Mind you, Dad worked for Ford while he owned everything but a Ford. After owning one, he never got anything else. He did not need to. The Fords were more reliable then the Bugs or the Datsun truck ever was.



My Trac is not perfect. It fits my lifestyle completely, but it is far from perfect. My niece has a Toyota Tacoma. That vehicle is even further from perfect then the Trac is. Fortunatly, it is a Toyota. They are great cars and last forever. Lets home she can get 150,000 miles out of it. At the moment, it isn't looking like it will. My brothers Explorer only has about 10,000 miles to go. He should be at 160,000 this time next year. His Chevy Truck is sitting at 190,000 miles.



He acutally looks for high mileage vehicles. That is what he likes. BTW, he also has two Honda's. One CRX, a wrecked parts car, and a 1983 Civic SI. 130,000 miles and it is worn out. The undercarriage is rusted through. The engine won't run right and it has electrical issues.



Every auto makes has problems. At the moment, VW is considered one of the worst, from the last reports I have read. People still swear how great they are. They perceve that they are good cars.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, yes the Vortec I had was the 4.3l.



Also, it sounds like your family puts a lot of miles on cars. I would expect that for certain reiability issues age is a bigger factor than mileage, and for other issues mileage to be a bigger factor than age.



My mom had a Subaru with less than 10K miles on it when it was 4 years old, and she had tons of mechanical problems. My S-15 had 55K miles when the gaskets went, yet it was 8 years old (low mileage)...so I expect the age and the number of heat-up, cool-downs on the engine had more to do with that problem than the mileage.



I agree with all that you said. BUT if you are saying that Ford and GM "long term reliability" over the past two decades has matched that of most of the Japanese imports (Toyota, Honda), than I would have to disagree humbly....yes, maybe it is perception, but perception is everything.



Oh, and I think VWs have always had quality problems.



And, the only car I ever drove over 100K miles without issue was a 1991 Mitsu Galant that my wife put 120K miles on. BEST CAR WE EVER OWNED!



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Vortec 4.3L is a Chevrolet 350 minus 2 cylinders. One of the best engines ever made.



You are right about age vs. mileage. It is true with everything. A car two years old with 100,000 miles will be more relaible then a car that is 10 years old with 30,000 miles. I have seen it myself.



As for reliability domestic vs. Japanese, I would have to say it is a wash. People think the Japanese last longer, but where I am at, you see ten 80's domestic cars for ever '80 something Japanese car. Yeasterday on the way to work I seen a Chevette. When was the last Chevette made? They were RWD. That gives you an idea how old that vehicle was.



Maybe in an area the doesn't get the roads salted too bad, they might last longer. In my area, there have always been alot of Japanese cars on the road, just once they are a few year old, they dissappear.





Tom

 

[Gerald Pierce]

1981 Escort - 5000 miles and dead engine

1984 Ranger - 10000 miles and dead engine

1997 F150 - 52000 miles and dead engine

2001 Sport Trac - 93000 miles and dead engine

Crystalgrower, You either have the worst luck of all, or there is something we aren't being told. I drove a 1973 F100 for over 200k hard miles in a farm environment. Had a 95 e150 w/351 that the only mechanical problem was the o-ring on the fuel pump in aprox 50k miles. had a mid 80's Escort that I bought as a beater w/over 100k on it... I drove it for three years in the chicago snow and cold... no issues with it for the 30k or so miles I put on it. Now have a 99 Merc Sable w/3.0 Vulcan- 97k and runs like a top. Only issues have been heater core and tranny (tranny issue was caused by me inadvertantly spraying water into the dipstick while flushing heater core ) My 93 Mustang LX 2.3 has 113k miles and has only had a radiator leak --$80.00 to replace, and it burns no oil at all. My ST w/50k has had no mechanical issues at all. Flushed the tranny at 45k and change the oil every 3-5k.



FIL has had all Fords for the 23 years I have known him with the exception of 1 Dodge ram--it was the most troublesome vehicle he had. All others were great.



Are Fords as reliable as the imports? Hard to say. Perception from the general public is that they are not, but to me, they are. Haven't owned any imports but the 2 Subi's and the fords rivaled them every step of the way, thus the reason I steered my son into buying a new ranger and the reason I am looking at a Focus to replace the Merc. Originally considered a Dodge Durango and Chevy Trailblazer to replace the Merc, but gas mileage and reliability issues with these models from friends experiences (my PERCEPTION) led me away from them.



Hope you have better luck with future vehicles... Ford must have done something right-- you keep buying them even when they keep sticking you up.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I would expect to see a lot less Jap imports on the road in areas of Ohio where you live Tom, than where I have spent the last 18 years of my life (Bucks Co, PA, and Westchester Co, NY)...as both are more affluent, white collar professional areas, by and large. Nothing against Ohio, but from what I have seen, it's not much different than central NY where I grew up, and up there, everyone drove most domestic and drove them into the ground...with a few "uppity folk" buying the imports.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

There are alot of import cars. On any given day, it is about a 50/50 mix import vs. domestic. on the road. Driving to Theresa's today, I counted 4 Escort's, all between 1991 and 1996 MY's, two Tempo's, 1986 and a later model, about 1992. A 1993 Cougar, a 1970 something Thunderbird.



The imports I seen were 2000 and newer with the exception of an Acura Vigor. Looked like one of the earlier modles. It was sitting next to the 1986 Tempo.



The imports are out there, I just don't see them lasting any longer then a domestic.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I hope you mean you COUNTED 4 Escorts. :wub:



We see what you want to see Tom. I just hear all these testimonies from people that drive their Camry's into 200K+ miles, and they are on their third one, and keep handing them down to kids, and relatives, and my personal experience so far is that the imports I have owned have been more reliable past 50K miles than the domestics. Others claim the same, and others claim the opposite.

 

[scott r]

Tom, you also might keep in mind that these el cheapo imports don't cost as much as a well-built american car, so it would be easier/cheaper for people to just go buy a new one every 2 or 3 years. I worked at a toyota dealership when I was a teenager (as an auto detailer), I was baffled by people who traded in their "old" camrys after only a year or two of usage to get a new one. There was rarely anything WRONG with the cars, the owners were just ready for something new and the new camrys were cheap enough that the people could afford one every year or every other year. The "camry effect" was even more noticeable with the corollas. There were always plenty of used camrys and corollas because people kept trading them in for newer models. The brand loyalty was pretty good, very rarely did we get a non-toyota for a trade in. The only domestic cars on the lot were the ones that the used car manager bought at auction...and there were very few of those even.

That might be another reason why you didn't count as many old imports.

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



How long does it take an average person to drive 200,000 miles? If some have driven 20,000 miles a year and in thier third Camry, they have owned each vehicle for a long time. Someone that uses a vehicle for business use, will see cars that go well above 200,000 miles. I would not think twice about buying a two year old car with 200,000 miles on it.



Here is some food for thought. The average person drives about 12,000 miles a year. They would have to drive it for about 17 years to get 200,000 miles. How long has the Camry been in the USA? I highly doubt it has been here for 34 years.



My uncle has a fleet of Fords he uses in his business. They are abused and still keep running. Some have well over 200,000 miles on them. They are used every day hauling tools and equipment to and from the job sites.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

People drive Camry's and Corollas into the 100s of thousands of miles. My cousin had a Corolla that he owned for almost 10 years, and he had over 200K miles. Never replaced anything but brakes and tires, and then only went through about 3 or 4 sets of tires.



He traveled a long way each day back and forth to work, then drove a lot during his work (manager at a local, regional telco).



I am pretty sure it was a Corolla, and I am talking about a period during the late 70s, early 80s.



My wife put over 120K on a 91 Mitsu Galant in less than 5 years. No problems whatsoever.



There are people here that are putting 40K and 50K miles on their STs in 4 years or under and replacing trannies and engines, at what appears to be an alarming rate...to that I say WTF!



Sure, maybe the failure rates are the same with the imports; and sure, maybe for every 1000 Camry's that have under 50K miles there are tranny and engine problems at the same rate for 1000 similarly mileaged STs...but I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT. And, it seems Consumer Reports reliability surveys would back that assumption up.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

How many people here have put over 100,000 miles on thier vehicles without a problem? People will only complain when they have a problem. It is rare when you hear someone say that they drove thier vehicle xxx miles without a problem.



Just because some peopple brag more then others does not mean that it doesn't happen.



A guy I work with has a 87 Jeep and a 1996 Ford Taurus. We were speaking one day and we got on the subject of cars. He was talking about his Taurus. When I asked him how many miles he has on it, he just said, 180,000 miles. I said, "How many?". "180,000 miles. It has been a good car. Never did a thing to it." He acted like it wasn't a big deal.



That is my point. If he would have had problems with it, he would have told everybody about the problems he is having. If he hasn't had any problems, he would not have said a word.



Consumer reports is not the always accurate.



Back in '89, I was reading Consumer Reports. They rated a Mazda 323 with high marks, but rated the Mercury Tracer with low marks. Both were made at the same plant. Both had the same engine, Same body, same tires. Same everything. Why did the Mazda score so good? You tell me.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Uncle! Uncle!



You are right, Caymen, obviously the widespread public perception and opinion that "on average" the reliability of Japanese imports is higher than that of domestics and the data from Consumer reports that justifies this perception and opinion is simply wrong!



I Give!



TJR

 

[Old Guy]

Caymen, I agree... I purchased two new 1989 Tracers for my identical twin sons when they graduated from college in 1990. Looked at the Mazda 323 and it was identical power train wise to the Tracers. The Tracers were upscale in finish which included carpets instead of rubber matts, nicer seat materials etc. and the Tracers had a really neat 4 door arrangement with a lift back trunk lid. Both Mazda and Mercury had really bad brake system problems... and both cars final assembly was in Hermosa Mexico!



OldGuy

 

[Johnny O]

How long does it take an average person to drive 200,000 miles?

Guy on the Ranger boards has a 2001 4 cyl Ranger with 230,000 miles. I've ridden in it, looks pretty much like new really. Never been apart. He's not average though. :lol:

 

[Tom Schindler]

JohnnyO,



What that guy does is something 9% of people don't do. The average person only drives 12 to 15 thousand miles a year. At that rate, it would take about 10 years to drive 140,000 miles.



I don't care what you drive. If you drive highway miles only and spend it driving coast to coast, you would have no problems getting 300 to 400 thousand miles.



My uncle said it best. Look at a Ford, Chevy, Honda, Nissan, Toyota, and anyone elses dealer franchise. The have a service department full all the time. They all have thier problems.



I might call Japanese cars junk, but really I don't feel one is <B>THAT</B> much better then another. one car manufacturer has 20 probles per 100 vehicles while abouther has 30 problems per 100 vehicles. If one made 100 cars with one of those cars having 20 problems, while the other had 30 vehicles with one problem each.



Statistics can be misleading. It is all on how it is presented.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

I might call Japanese cars junk, but really I don't feel one is THAT much better then another. one car manufacturer has 20 probles per 100 vehicles while abouther has 30 problems per 100 vehicles.

So, Caymen, you admit to calling Japanese cars JUNK and at the same time admit that you don't see a big difference in reliability amongst the manufacturers.



Sounds like emotion then, not facts nor statistics are leading you to your opinion that Japanese imports are JUNK, because by your own admission they are all about the same.



Not trying to twist things, just trying to determine if a lot of your "Domestics are as good as imports" mentality comes from emotion. We all know you seem to HATE WITH PASSION the imports and that seems emotional to me.



I know a lot of blue collar Northeasterners and Northerns that have had a hate for imports literally bred into them.



TJR