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How many people here actually put only 12,000 miles on their vehicle a year? This will be my first year every driving less then 30K (not including my motorcycle) and I live 6 miles from work? in 13 years of driving I've put almost 500,000 on my vehicles. I've had 2 cars that were just shy of 200K and another that was just shy of 300K ( I bought 2 of those used) and never had an engine or tranny go. All 3 were "imports", 1 Mazda 626, 2 Toyota Corollas. I drove those cars much harder then I drive my ST and didn't take care of them half as well as I do my ST. They got oil changes when I could afford to do them, not when they hit 3000 miles. I work with a woman that puts 41600 a year on her cars just commuting to and from work, probably another 10-15K noncommuting miles and she has only had imports and they regularly are well over 200K ( she can't afford to buy brand new cars or lease) She's had the usual parts go after all those miles but never has she replaced an engine or a transmission.

 
Tom, I don't think that hate for imports can be localized to just the north and northeast. When I go to visit my folks in SC all I see are American made pickup trucks and cars. Very few imports down there.

My grandfather refused to buy anything but big american cars until he was 75 and I had bought a Honda. He liked it so much he bought one. 12 years later it's been passed onto my cousin. It still drives like it's brand new.
 
TJR,



Yes, I do hate improt cars and trucks. They are taking advantage of the free trade at the expense of jobs for our hard working American families. They do not offer the benefits Ford, Chrysler, and GM offer the employees. I look at the imported cars made in the US as the Wal-Mart of the automakers.



When the imports first came to the US, they were junk, plain and simple. Japanese cars from the 70's and early 80's are not on the road compare to the American cars of the same year. Look around, it is not uncommong to see a beat up Monte Carlo or a beat up Thunderbird, but you will not see a Toyota Cressida anywhere on the road.



I call Japanese Motorcycles "JapCrap", but that doesn't mean that the Japanese bikes are less reliable then a Harly is. Then again, you don't see many Japanese bikes from the 70's, but you do see Harley's. Explain that. The Harley-Davidson motorcycles have something the Japanese bikes will never have...Class.



Don't think I have felt this way my whole life. When I was yunger, I wanted imported cars in the worst way. As I got older and started looking around, I have seen that the imported cars don't stay on the road as long as the American cars did. I have seen the abuse people pu on cars on a daily basis and the Domestics handle it without a problem.



I have yet to see a Japanese truck handle 1/10 of the abuse a Domestic truck sees.





Tom

 
>> I have seen that the imported cars don't stay on the road as long as the American cars did. I have seen the abuse people pu on cars on a daily basis and the Domestics handle it without a problem.



Sorry, Caymen, but that really doesn't prove anything other than what you have seen in your travels and locality is people seemingly keeping domestic cars longer than imports. That's an observation, but you don't know the cause.



Your observation may very well be true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the imports are inferior. For example, it could mean that the people who buy domestic tend to drive their cars into the ground moreso than those that buy imports who like to trade up every few years. You seemingly see a behavior, but you can't really know the reasons for that behavior on both sides of the consumer preference fence.



TJR
 
Why should someone trade up every few years if thier car is that much better? Where are the cars they trade in? I am pretty sure when you trade a car it it doesn't go straight to the junkyard. Somebody else will buy it. Finally it gets taken off the road when it is no longer road worthy.



What would be the difference between me driving my domestic into the ground or 10 people buying the same import? There is still two cars on the road.





Tom
 
Well, I have some numbers for you, there is an oilfield company up in Boyle, Alberta, they have run every brand of vehicle in their fleets. Ford, Chev and Dodge all came out at costing around 28 cents/km (cnd money) to maintain. Front and rear ends would have to be done around 100,000 km's. (these vehicles are in the bush on oilfield roads, hard driving) they switched to Toyota and the maintenance costs are down to 8 cents/km. They ones with 200,000 km's still have not needed any front or rear end work. They are beat up just the same in the same conditions as the domestic vehicles.
 
>> What would be the difference between me driving my domestic into the ground or 10 people buying the same import? There is still two cars on the road.



The difference is resales scatter, often through auction houses.



A large number of used cars get sold in auctions, and a large number of trade-ins get moved out of city and state and go wherever the market is better.



I have traded in LOTS of vehicles, and returned off-lease vehicles as well, some with high mileage some with relatively low mileage, all in GOOD condition, and I have YET to see one go back for sale on the dealer lot where I traded it in.



Also, you seem to assume that the "new car" and "resale" market for a given make of car would be more or less the same for a single area (in other words, those that trade in for new cars can feed the resale market). I don't see that as the case at all. It might be the case, but again, it need not be. Greenwhich Connecticut has a very good luxury import market (BMWs, Mercs, Lexus), but no were NEAR as strong a resale market for those cars...and that area turns those new cars over fairly quickly. What happens with all those 2 and 3 year old, low mileage luxuries...they are resold elsewhere.



TJR
 
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I hate to interrupt the delusional rantings and mythical reliability argument of domestic vehicles but...



Has anyone actually heard if Ford agreed to warranty the engine in question?





 
TJR wrote:



I have traded in LOTS of vehicles, and returned off-lease vehicles as well, some with high mileage some with relatively low mileage, all in GOOD condition, and I have YET to see one go back for sale on the dealer lot where I traded it in.
Click to expand...



Maybe it is the car you drive that they don't want on thier lot. Theresa works for a dealership. If they get a nice trade it, it goes on the lot. Many times it sell the same day.



Where do all the imports go? To import car land? I don't buy the theory that the imports are sent elsewhere never to be seen again. Nobody in thier right mind wants a used car from Ohio. Our roads are crap and we use too much salt on the road in the winter.





Tom
 
>> Nobody in thier right mind wants a used car from Ohio. Our roads are crap and we use too much salt on the road in the winter.



"Few" in Ohio would want a rotting used car from Ohio, I grant you that.



But what about people in the South? You yourself keep educating and reminding people on this site about the how harsh the Northern winters and the road salt is on cars. You remind and educate people because obviously you must think not everyone knows this. And, if not everyone knows this down South, than it stands to reason that some Northern trade-ins are taken down South to be sold to unsuspecting folk. By your own actions and statements on this board you setup that as a logical, plausible possibility.



If a car is only 2 years old, garage kept and washed now and then during the winter it can still look showroom new when cleaned up, even if it is from Ohio.



You asked HOW it might be that you don't see a lot of older imports (conversely why you see mostly newer imports) and I gave you a plausible example of how it can happen...I never said this happens to ALL used import cars. I am VERY, VERY cautious to not use words like ALWAYS, NEVER, BEST, WORST, EVERYBODY, NOBODY as those are NOT words that I can back up (few can).



Oh, BTW, Caymen, this my last post on this thread. I hope Ryan M gets his engine paid for by Ford. Try not to be a hater (of imports) because typically that type of hate is thinly veiled jealousy, and try not to use those ABSOLUTE words so much (ALWAYS, NEVER...) because they make you sound like a know-it-all zealot.



TJR
 
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I can only speak from perspnal experience and observation.



My dad is considering buying a 1998 Taurus from the dealer today. Where did they get the car from? Trade-in. An old lady, Theresa was there when she traded it in, traded it on a new Focus. The dealer put it on the lot to sell in the same day. Go figure.



Hopefully, I will find the "land of the imports" where many used imported cars go. We know they get sent somewhere else.





Tom
 
Okay, okay, I just can't let it go...above was NOT my last post. ;-)



Caymen said:
My dad is considering buying a 1998 Taurus from the dealer today. Where did they get the car from? Trade-in. An old lady, Theresa was there when she traded it in, traded it on a new Focus. The dealer put it on the lot to sell in the same day. Go figure.
Click to expand...



Unlike you I don't use absolutes. I never said that trade-ins NEVER get resold on a lot, so your SNIDE comment about finding one doesn't mean anything. That is the EXACT reason why I try to not use words like NEVER and ALWAYS because one only needs to find ONE instance to prove you wrong. Thanks for making my case about absolutes.



Caymen said:
Hopefully, I will find the "land of the imports" where many used imported cars go. We know they get sent somewhere else.
Click to expand...



You tell me Caymen! You seem to say you see NEW imports but no OLD imports there in Ohio. So, first, define OLD, and second, where do YOU think the OLD imports go?



You keep asking "where do ALL the used imports go"...I never said ALL of them go anywhere. I gave a reason why you may not see as many older imports as you see newer ones. You seem to imply that the ONLY place the older ones are going is the junk heap. Clearly that is very unlikely.



BTW, sarcasm is a weak debate tactic, and it shows that you have no respect for the people who you are discussing topics with when you use it.



TJR
 
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Oh, and Caymen also said:
I call Japanese Motorcycles "JapCrap", but that doesn't mean that the Japanese bikes are less reliable then a Harly is. Then again, you don't see many Japanese bikes from the 70's, but you do see Harley's. Explain that. The Harley-Davidson motorcycles have something the Japanese bikes will never have...Class.
Click to expand...



There are things that people collect and there are things that people don't collect. People collect and restore Harleys, not as many seem to collect and restore old Suzukis. The large market just isn't there.



Doesn't make them crap, just makes them different.



If you think something is Junk, or Crap, it seems to me that you should have a reason for that opinion other than its NOT what you LIKE.



In other words, Caymen, and PLEASE TAKE THIS CONSTRUCTIVELY, you can NOT LIKE something and still respect it and the people who do, and you do that by NOT PISSING ALL OVER IT WITH NEGATIVITY for no rational reason.



Case in point..."My Time is Too Valuable than to Waste Playing Video Games!" (paraphrasing). Remember that one? And then you back-peddled on that whole thread.



I hope you see my point. If you have real, valid reasons for you point, then fine. But you have said several times that your opinion of the imports isn't based on reliability, yet you think they are CRAP and JUNK.



The words CRAP and JUNK should mean something and be rooted in something. Don't be a hater just to be a hater.



I undertand your union stance and how you feel that Japanese automakers are taking advantage of an unfair trade balance, but is that really a reason to call them CRAP and JUNK? Clearly so, so many other Americans feel differently THUS the imbalance.



I just implore you to SAY what you MEAN, MEAN what you SAY, and not be MEAN when you SAY IT!



TJR







 
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When I mean new imports, I am talking about Honda's, Acura's, Toyota's, Nissan's, etc all within 3 years old. I do not see many imports that go back to 1990. When the Honda Accord was the top selling vehicle on the road, they were everywhere. When Ford finally dethroned the Accord in the top spot, Ford did not beat them by a landslide. It was always close. I know what a '90's Accord looks like.



I see Taurus cars of that same year on a regular basis, I rarely, if ever, see a 1990's Accord.



Then again, I don't live where they ship the trade-in imports to. Maybe I live in Domestic trade-in land.





Tom
 
>> I see Taurus cars of that same year on a regular basis, I rarely, if ever, see a 1990's Accord.



Given the economy of Ohio, how about this as a possibility painted as a nice little picture:



Late 80s and early 90s imports were bought by Joe and Jane Yuppie of the suburbs. Now, 15 years later, their young kids have gone off to college, or moved out of states where the good white collar jobs are taking mom and dad's hand-me-down car with them. The whole while, Earl and Alma Po'Folk drive their paid-off Tauras into the ground, what with only having to drive it to pick up scratch-off tickets and Red White and Blue beer and such.



Okay, that is a little sarcastic, sorry...but my point is valid. There is a profile of people that buy American and keep the cars a long time and there is another profile of people who buy imports and recycle (or trade them in). If you hand a car down to a kid, or sell it to a cousin or neice of nephew, where does it go?



The college parking lots are filled with 10 year old imports.



TJR
 
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TJR,



I live near a few major schools in my area. The University of Akron, Kent State University, and Stark State College.



If the lots were full of 10 year old imports, I would see them on the road since I live within 2 miles of the first school, 10 miles of the second, and 20 miles of the third. I spend alot of time in all three areas since each area has different places to shop and to spend my money on entertainment.





Tom
 
The import/domestic arguments are quite silly when we have "domestic" cars with a majority of their parts made outside of the US and assembled outside of the US, and we have "import" cars with most of their parts made inside the US and assembled inside of the US.



I don't see how "domestic" or "import" really means much anymore. We have domestic companies owned by foreign companys (DaimlerChrysler), and foreign companies owned by US companies (Jaguar, Mazda, etc. owned by Ford).



I don't really care who makes the product or where it comes from. I look at the suitability for my needs, the long-term reliability, and the cost.



I don't really care if the workers are UAW or non-union. In my mind, a lot of autoworkers get paid pretty damn good for the amount of skills they need to do their job. If someone else somewhere else can do the same job for less pay, more power to them. As a company shareholder, I would want my company to utilize cheaper labor for the same quality. Why wouldn't I?



The US has been spoiled by the last several decades of being a superpower in the world economy. However, now we are going to have to learn how to take a backseat to some other countries who are going to clean our clock as a superpower. China for one will be the new world economic leader. Yes, our standard of living may decline a bit, but we have been in the top 98% of standard of living compared to the rest of the world for years.



I am not giving up on the US. Despite all our problems, we have some very smart people and some very hard-working people who will keep us in good shape and help us figure out solutions. The biggest problem I see right now is that we are trying to make our entire country middle-class, with even the poorest have cell phones, steak dinners, Cadillacs and Lexus, $300 Air Jordans, cable HD plasma TVs, and lots of kids. Most tax payers like me can't afford to keep 6 million welfare recipients in the middle class.
 
Gavin,



The whole country is not going to a middle class country, but it is going to only two classes of people. The rich and the poor. There will be no middle class.





Tom
 
Gavin said:
The biggest problem I see right now is that we are trying to make our entire country middle-class, with even the poorest have cell phones, steak dinners, Cadillacs and Lexus, $300 Air Jordans, cable HD plasma TVs, and lots of kids. Most tax payers like me can't afford to keep 6 million welfare recipients in the middle class.
Click to expand...



You are SO right Gavin. Many complain about the poor and how the divide between the poor and the rich is growin in this country. That's bunk!



Obesity is the #1 health problem of the poorest people in our country. Our poor still have cell phones, cable tv and 1000 dollar rims. I have seen people buy steak and lobster with food stamps while my wife and I buy hamburger and fish sticks with cash.



True, the middle class is getting squeezed moreso now than ever, but mostly because its a middle class that is trying to live like the upper class and is doing so beyond their means. We have a disappearing middle class due to rampant credit card debt, and an ever growing entitlement mentality.



TJR
 

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