MikeSondra Grossen
Well-Known Member
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Did we get him?
- Thread starter Andrew Wacyra
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Don Pertz
Active Member
No official pictures have been released yet.
Don Pertz
Active Member
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Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
Yes, I realize that. Obama even said that.
Again, it's rather convenient as the only person who was actually named & given credit was Obama. Obama mentioned positions which could be named, like the Director of the CIA, but he didn't mention that person's name, just their position. Why? Well, when there's only one name in the game, that's the name that the action starts to get associated with. Which is great for Obama, as he needs all the credit he can get for the pending elections.
Wha?!! Even the NBC news anchors were saying that the only way this news would be accepted by the world at large was if definite proof were shown, with a body being requisite. Without a body, how do we really know? Why couldn't they get the body back to America?
The news says that Osama's body was "buried at sea in Islamic tradition". That can't be an Islamic tradition--Arabs have been practicing Islam for centuries and they aren't buried at sea, they've gravitated to burying themselves away from water. Again, why couldn't we get the body back? If it was already on one of our ships....
Supposedly the site where Osama was taken out was just a few miles from the Pakistan military academy. How could the Pakistanis not know that Osama was hiding out there? I find tha rather suspicious.
What is most heinous is that DHS and other agencies are using the death of Bin Laden as an excuse to ramp up their pointless & invasive security procedures. :angry:
From the Vatican:
"In front of the death of man, a Christian never rejoices but rather reflects on the grave responsibility of each one in front of God and men, and hopes and commits himself so that every moment not be an occasion for hatred to grow but for peace."
"In front of the death of man, a Christian never rejoices but rather reflects on the grave responsibility of each one in front of God and men, and hopes and commits himself so that every moment not be an occasion for hatred to grow but for peace."
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Paul, I promise I will. The day you quit drinking koolaid...:banana:
Eddie,
What makes President Obama illegal? Is it because you feel that the birth certificate is a fake? Do you think that if he was NOT born in the USA, that the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, etc. would not know this?
As a person that carries a security clearance, rest assured, the FBI knows everything about us. If Obama was illegal, it would have been exposed.
Tom
What makes President Obama illegal? Is it because you feel that the birth certificate is a fake? Do you think that if he was NOT born in the USA, that the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, etc. would not know this?
As a person that carries a security clearance, rest assured, the FBI knows everything about us. If Obama was illegal, it would have been exposed.
Tom
KL,
Why does it matter how Bin Laden was buried, if you don't even believe he was killed??
The news that I heard was that "He was given a funeral in the Islamic tradition, which means a quick burial". Did they really bury him at sea??? Who knows? But I sure know that I don't care nor does most of America, and the rest of the civilized world.
The remarks I heard where that the US did not want to let his people get the body where they may build a shrine and worship him as a religious martyr. Like the victims of 9/11, their remains were never recovered for their proper funeral services. I think it's fitting that Bin Ladens body was dumped at sea....I just hope none of the sharks get sick.
...Rich
Why does it matter how Bin Laden was buried, if you don't even believe he was killed??
The news that I heard was that "He was given a funeral in the Islamic tradition, which means a quick burial". Did they really bury him at sea??? Who knows? But I sure know that I don't care nor does most of America, and the rest of the civilized world.
The remarks I heard where that the US did not want to let his people get the body where they may build a shrine and worship him as a religious martyr. Like the victims of 9/11, their remains were never recovered for their proper funeral services. I think it's fitting that Bin Ladens body was dumped at sea....I just hope none of the sharks get sick.
...Rich
TRACket Paul
Well-Known Member
Tom, I haven't had Kool-Aid in more than 30 years. So many other beverages that I prefer:haveabeer:.
Matt DeFina
Active Member
Hat's off to the BAD-A$$ Navy SEALS who went in!!
AWESOME! :supercool:
AWESOME! :supercool:
Mark K 2
Well-Known Member
Wasn't it Clinton that originally put out the hit on Osama bin Laden? Bush sort of swept it under the rug until after 9/11.
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Tom,
Anyone that is going to lead this union of states, head of our nation. Protect the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Should never start out keeping public records, many from all parties have asked for. CLANDESENT! I wont trust anyone that is purposefuly clandesent. The fact is, he has been since the conventions. The nation knows it.
I stand for truth and Godly submission. He is niether. Look at the Pastor he sat under for 20yrs. I will leave a church in the moment, hate is preached. Hate breeds deception. Deception breeds a charismatic lier. OB is a soicialist at heart.
That is the one thing I didnt like about being a union member. They are socialist.
I actually remained a member for job security. As I have said before. I worked for a company that had no care for employees.
Anyone that is going to lead this union of states, head of our nation. Protect the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Should never start out keeping public records, many from all parties have asked for. CLANDESENT! I wont trust anyone that is purposefuly clandesent. The fact is, he has been since the conventions. The nation knows it.
I stand for truth and Godly submission. He is niether. Look at the Pastor he sat under for 20yrs. I will leave a church in the moment, hate is preached. Hate breeds deception. Deception breeds a charismatic lier. OB is a soicialist at heart.
That is the one thing I didnt like about being a union member. They are socialist.
I actually remained a member for job security. As I have said before. I worked for a company that had no care for employees.
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
I think that the old argument of "He has to be legit, because people who know more than I have not said he is illegitimate" is pretty weak. Have the sources you mentioned ever, on record, definitively stated that they have found President Obama to be an irrefutably legal president?
Thinking on it some more, I see how both sides wanted Osama dead, so I believe it. My difficulty in doing so before came from having Obama's speech fresh in my mind; he's too shifty for me to put much trust in his poorly-delivered speeches, he can't even stand to look straight at the camera when he gives them. Yet he is supposedly a great, or the greatest (depending on what textbook you check) American orator :angry:
The dumping of the body--I hope there were no burial rites performed (ie no shaman/imam present, etc)--should have been televised, just like the Saddam execution. Speaking of that event, have any cellphone videos recorded by soldiers/sailors at the scene(s) turned up yet?
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Not true. Clinton was offered OBL on several occasions and blew it.* Remember, OBL attacked the US FOUR times on Clinton's watch:
1. 1993-World Trade Center, New York CIty
2. 1996-Khobar Towers, Saudi Arabia
3. 1998-US Embassies, Kenyan/Tanzania
4. 2000-USS Cole (DDG-67), Yemen
President Bush had only been in office for barely nine months when 9/11 happened, so how exactly did he sweep OBL under the rug?
Perhaps if Clinton had made capturing/killing OBL a higher priority than getting his pole smoked after the first attack in '93, then maybe the subsequent attacks by al-Qadea on Americans and others around the world might never have happened.:banghead:
* - <A HREF="http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm">Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize</A>
- <A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/17/international/asia/17osama.html">State Dept. Says It Warned About bin Laden in 1996</A>
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KL,
It sounds more like you are mad that they got Bin Laden on Obama's watch?? Both Clinton and Bush had opportunities to get him and as luck would have it, they missed. The Navy seals got him, and you act like it's some kind of Obama trick because they didn't drag the body back to the Whitehouse or they won't publish Bin Laden's birth certificate...lol
The only reason there was a video of Saddam's hanging is because someone illegally used a cellphone to record something that the press was not allowed to photograph. If the burial of Bin Laden was done from a US vessel, they may have video, but may not release it to the media. I hear one Pentagon reporter say that he had seen a photos of Bin Laden with the bullet hole just above the left eye and there was a lot of blood and brains, etc., and the administration was debating if they should release the photos. I'm sure that some of it has to do with not wanting to infuriate all the Muslims, and some of it has to do with the blood and gore.
Eddie,
I agree that I don't like governement officials who try to keep secrets, but in this case the secrets were kept to insure that nobody would tip off Bin Laden....I do think there are some secrets, that the general public does not need to know, and I don't want to know about them.
...Rich
It sounds more like you are mad that they got Bin Laden on Obama's watch?? Both Clinton and Bush had opportunities to get him and as luck would have it, they missed. The Navy seals got him, and you act like it's some kind of Obama trick because they didn't drag the body back to the Whitehouse or they won't publish Bin Laden's birth certificate...lol
The only reason there was a video of Saddam's hanging is because someone illegally used a cellphone to record something that the press was not allowed to photograph. If the burial of Bin Laden was done from a US vessel, they may have video, but may not release it to the media. I hear one Pentagon reporter say that he had seen a photos of Bin Laden with the bullet hole just above the left eye and there was a lot of blood and brains, etc., and the administration was debating if they should release the photos. I'm sure that some of it has to do with not wanting to infuriate all the Muslims, and some of it has to do with the blood and gore.
Eddie,
I agree that I don't like governement officials who try to keep secrets, but in this case the secrets were kept to insure that nobody would tip off Bin Laden....I do think there are some secrets, that the general public does not need to know, and I don't want to know about them.
...Rich
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TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Rich,
I think Eddie is referring to the fact that President Obama, until a few weeks ago, refused to publicize his birth certificate and put the whole issue to rest. That, and also the fact that he ordered all of his college and passport records sealed as well.
Compare that with just about every other Presidential candidate in modern history who has mad their academic and other records public during the campaign. And recall that there was a stink made over McCain's eligibility because he was born in the Panama Canal zone.
Moreover, how about the media continuing to make President Bush's National Guard service an issue and dig into/fabricate those records three years into his presidency?
I think Eddie is referring to the fact that President Obama, until a few weeks ago, refused to publicize his birth certificate and put the whole issue to rest. That, and also the fact that he ordered all of his college and passport records sealed as well.
Compare that with just about every other Presidential candidate in modern history who has mad their academic and other records public during the campaign. And recall that there was a stink made over McCain's eligibility because he was born in the Panama Canal zone.
Moreover, how about the media continuing to make President Bush's National Guard service an issue and dig into/fabricate those records three years into his presidency?
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
I'm not mad that they got Bin Laden on Obama's watch. I'm a bit annoyed that Obama is using the killing of OBL to prop himself up, which is not proper decorum for the highest office in the land. The word "I" should not have been used by him in that speech, and yet it was...over and over and over. (What Obama did: nothing. By his own admission in the speech, he kept us from getting OBL sooner as he had to "run the thread to ground" before he would authorize action, or some such BS.)
I'm also annoyed that the body hasn't been shown. Even the mainstream media (NBC) stated while they were stalling for Obama to finally start his long-winded speech that the news of Osama's death would be meaningless without a body to show the world.
Most vexing is the idea that the death of Osama bin Laden might actually be advantageous to Al Quaida. They now have the ultimate figurehead--he died for their cause, and now that he's dead he can't corrupt the legendary status that they've talked him up to. He is now like the USS Maine or the Alamo were to America in their respective wars, with perhaps even more influence.
(And if the money angle is true, his death turned profit for al quaida. 25 million in the bank, no expenses for dialysis in the desert, no elaborate hideout in the mountains, no more bribes to Pakistanis to cover up said hideout....it's unsubstantiated, but it's not impossible.)
Oh, I also don't want to see OBL's birth certificate, but I do want to see how we know that the body we found actually was OBL's. How do we even have OBL's dna to compare the dna of the recovered corpse with? I'm curious as I haven't even seen results of the promised testing yet. I haven't even seen a picture of the corpse. Again, even NBC said that pictures were essential.
And as they say on the internet: "Pix or it didn't happen".
KL,
All politicians use "I" too much and say they were more involved in something that they had little or no say in. In this case, the President acting as the Commander in Chief, was the final dicision maker to approve the execution of the mission. I don't think he took any credit, only explained that he was involved in planning meetings with the military and intelligence agencies each step of the way. Remember this was an invasion on foreign soil (Pakistan), and they had warned the US about previous incurrsions into Pakistan in the past. So there were and still may be some political concequences since there are a lot of Taliban still using Pakistan as a safe haven. Perhaps the Taliban may need to start looking over their shoulders or duck when they hear the sound of a helicopter at night...lol
As to if this will embolden Al Qaida? Who really cares, since they do not need any reason to attack accept an opportunity. I also think that now the we have Osama's computers and other documents the potential intelligence could be far more harmful to Al Qaida's future terrorist plans...and may lead to the capture of more Al Qaida leadership and perhaps more about their funding, organizational structure and other cells operating worldwide.
...Rich
All politicians use "I" too much and say they were more involved in something that they had little or no say in. In this case, the President acting as the Commander in Chief, was the final dicision maker to approve the execution of the mission. I don't think he took any credit, only explained that he was involved in planning meetings with the military and intelligence agencies each step of the way. Remember this was an invasion on foreign soil (Pakistan), and they had warned the US about previous incurrsions into Pakistan in the past. So there were and still may be some political concequences since there are a lot of Taliban still using Pakistan as a safe haven. Perhaps the Taliban may need to start looking over their shoulders or duck when they hear the sound of a helicopter at night...lol
As to if this will embolden Al Qaida? Who really cares, since they do not need any reason to attack accept an opportunity. I also think that now the we have Osama's computers and other documents the potential intelligence could be far more harmful to Al Qaida's future terrorist plans...and may lead to the capture of more Al Qaida leadership and perhaps more about their funding, organizational structure and other cells operating worldwide.
...Rich
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
:throwup: I tried to repress the part where Obama actually referred to himself as the CiC in his speech. Til then, I was doing well in my venture to repress the fact that his horrendously non, if not anti, qualified self is our military's CiC. BTW, to help myself get over the disgust that BHO is the CiC, I emphasized a word in your quote. Great word choice, it's very appropriate.
Something else interesting is that Obama said that America couldn't acknowledge publicly the soldiers who did the deed, so all of America would thank them in effect through Obama & his speech. Yet Obama did not say "We give thanks to them", but rather "We give thanks for them". That's not thanking the troops per se, and who is he thanking? God?
I found it an interesting word choice, and there has to be a significance to it. The "Greatest American Orator" does not take word choice lightly.
Hopefully, though I thought that the cell structure was designed to be "doubly blind", for just as the lower level cells don't know the guys pulling the strings, the central HQ wouldn't know specifics about every cell. Each level of the hierarchy comes up with an abstracted plan, and its up to the lower hierarchies to actually amass the manpower to pull it off & convert abstract ideas into concrete plans. It would be foolish and impractical for OBL to have info on every single person in his organization...at least, that's how the cell structure is supposed to work.
Unless they're too stupid to adhere to proper security measures. Conspiracy theories aside, there's ample evidence of that, as Al Quaida didn't change their security measures after a high-level member, who had intimate knowledge of them, was captured.
Rick Kent
Well-Known Member
Obama had as much to do with this as Nixon had with the moon landing and Clinton had to do with the end of the cold war. Virtual nothing.
He signed the order...of course he did, he had no choice in the matter. Can't have another president let OBL off the hook when we had him dead to rights again.
That doesn't change that I am happy that OBL got double tapped by the best in the business, he got a far more merciful death than he deserved.
I also recognize sitting presidents are frequently the recipient of their predecessors accomplishments and failures, without exception.
He signed the order...of course he did, he had no choice in the matter. Can't have another president let OBL off the hook when we had him dead to rights again.
That doesn't change that I am happy that OBL got double tapped by the best in the business, he got a far more merciful death than he deserved.
I also recognize sitting presidents are frequently the recipient of their predecessors accomplishments and failures, without exception.
