Dealership Drives Mans Mustang Into Pond

[TrainTrac]

Oh boy, the lawyers are going to have fun with this one!:argue::smack:

Dealership Drives Mans Mustang Into Pond

Weve all heard about dealership horror stories when it comes to getting cars fixed under warranty. Usually it has to do with the dealer not honoring the warranty for aftermarket parts, or scratching the car and refusing to take responsibility, or even letting its employees take the car on joyrides. But what would you do if you came to pick up your car, only to find it has been parked at the bottom of a pond?



That is exactly what happened to a man over at the Mustang Forums, who now finds himself without a Mustang, and a dealership refusing to accept responsibility.

These are the facts as we know them from the forum. The poster dropped his Mustang off at a Ford dealership to fix some issues with the clutch. When he returned later to pick up his car, he was told that an employee activated the remote start system, and the car was in gear. The car then drove itself forward through an empty parking lot space, under a chain link fence, and into a retention pond. The car is totaled.

The dealership claims that since the car had a remote starter and it was a manual transmission car without a safety catch, they are absolved of any responsibility. Obviously, the poster isnt too happy to hear that, and the car was in the dealerships possession when it went into the water. This is a story that lawyers will have to hash out, though we hope everything comes to a speedy and acceptable conclusion.

 

[Olivia Snyder]

I have a remote start on my ST and they wont start (manual or by remote) unless it is in Park...I hope he get this all settled. I'd own me a pretty little Shelby after this was all over. lol

 

[Brian Drolet]

Why are employees using the remote starter anyway? If they needed to move the car someone should have been in the driver's seat.



I hope the Mustang owner gets a nice new 'Stang for this.

 

[ray moyer]

who parked the vehicle? did the dealership previously move the vehicle?



if the actual owner parked the vehicle themselves, failed to pull the handbrake and then left with it sitting, i would think itd be their fault not the dealers...



if not, insurance should cover the car unless the driver wasnt that bright and used only liability.



just my 2cents

 

[Roger Batts]

We had a similar situation happen here a few years ago. Most remote start systems say "For Automatic Transmission Vehicles only." We took care of the guy's vehicle, but informed him that if it were to happen again, it would be his responsibility because remote start systems are not intended for use on manual transmission vehicles. He had a Ford system installed and it very plainly states that it is not to be used in vehicles with manual transmissions.

 

[Tom Schindler]

I am torn on this. An improperly installed remote start in a manual car. The dealership employee pushes a button on the fob he thought was the door unlock button. (Just assuming here) The engine starts instead of the door unlocking. Hmmm.



Anyone familiar with driving a standard transmission equipped vehicle has been taught to always place the vehicle in 1st or reverse when parking. Personally, I always set the brake too, but if it isn't my vehicle I don't do it because many people never use the parking brake and it may not release.



Did the owner inform the dealer that a remote start was installed? Did the owner say to never leave it in gear? "Always leave it in neutral and set the brake" could have kept this from happening.



In a way, I feel the dealer is responsible since it was in their possession when the incident happened. Then again, safety components were either circumvented or the remote start was improperly installed.



I am leaning towards that the dealer should NOT be responsible.



Then again, as a business owner, maybe they should "Make it right" and keep a customer.





Tom

 

[EddieS'04]

I lean towards the dealers responsibility. The tech is still supposed to take 2 and think about safety.

I think in a court of law this is what you call abialment. The car was legaly left in the hands of the dealer. Same as if you let someone borrow your car. The responsibility falls in their hands. JMO

 

[Kevin Palmer]

If it is found that the remote start bypasses the clutch switch AND the owner did not specifically tell them, then I say it is on the owner. And even if he DID tell them, I would say that it would still be on him legally speaking.



Even if the shop accidentally activated it, why would it be reasonable to expect anything out of the norm. The norm being that no vehicle would start in gear...

 

[Dingo]

There are actually many remote starts that are manual transmission safe now. This guy's either wasn't, or the safety measures were defeated intentionally.

 

[Larry Phillips]

It's a factory option on newer Mustangs equipped with manual transmissions. I ALWAYS leave mine in neutral and engage the handbrake, an 9 times out of 10 if I get it serviced, it's always parked by said service center in reverse or 1st.

 

[Julio R]

dam that sucks, I would think the dealer would be at fault since it was in their possession but I am no legal expert

 

[Todd Z]

The Driver for having a remote start installed in a manual car and remote installer shop for doing it...



They are to blame...



It is plain and STUPID to install a remote start in a manual car then have people work on it and not tell them



Todd Z

 

[Ricco Kelleher]

"The Driver for having a remote start installed in a manual car and remote installer shop for doing it...



They are to blame...



It is plain and STUPID to install a remote start in a manual car then have people work on it and not tell them



Todd Z"



There are remote starters made specifically for manual transmissions, and if properly installed right - this would not have happened. Either it was installed with a remote start that was intentionally made for automatics, or somehow bypassed all the safety feature of the manual starters.



Most remote starters now are both Automatic and Manual transmission ready, for Automatic mode there is a Loop wire you must cut for automatic mode and leave the loop wire intact for Manual transmission mode. Some you must use a programmer to program it as an automatic or manual mode. By default, most remote starters now are in Manual transmission mode and must be programmed/configured for automatics.



Now, for manual transmissions, the remote start to function, the vehicle must first be in "Remote Start Ready Mode" before the remote start will even function. The process goes like this:



1- Before shutting of engine, the vehicle must be stopped, foot brake pressed, transmission put into neutral, park brake engaged, then release foot brake, then press the remote start button (Some remote starters do this automatically without having to press the button), then shut off vehicle.

2- The engine should keep running, exit the vehicle, shut all doors, and the press the remote start button again (some remote starts you do not have to press the button - it does this automatically after shutting all doors)



This engages the remote starter to check and confirmed that you are out of you vehicle, with all doors closed, and with the engine still running confirms its in neutral, and that the park brake is engaged and then shuts down the vehicle, and is now in Manual transmission ready start mode.



3- Now you can remote start your car.

Now also, the remote start monitors the doors, and if it senses any doors being opened, it will disable the ready start mode, this is in case someone goes into the vehicle and puts it in gear by accident. You would not be able to remote start after this until you re-set the ready start mode process.



If properly installed, with all door sensors in place and park brake amd foot brake all properly connected, then it will only start. It also monitors both opening and closing of the doors while entering ready mode, so if doors are not connected it will not go into ready mode. There is a lot of process before it will go into ready mode to be remote started, pretty much if anything is skipped, it will not start at all.



So otherwise this guy had a remote start installed that was intentionally made for Automatics or not configured/modified to start.



I install these all the time, as long as its a manual transmission ready and its properly installed and configured for manuals, this would not have happened!

 

[Carey Frennier]

The dealership didn't do anything wrong. It's a mod. Every mod is a risk to your warranty. The customer's fault. The people that sold him the starter do not have anything to do with this. It's like installing a supercharger, flooring the throttle and sending it into a gas station window and then blaming it on the supercharger...

 

[scott degroot]

Does anyone here own a 2007 Mustang GT? I would love to know what the owners manual says about parking the car because I would bet money that the park brake was not engaged when the car was turned off



The service writer who went out to get the car should have not been playing with the buttons in the first place. When we have cars in the shop there are a few rules rules that are always followed, never move anything that is adjustable, always lock and unlock the car with the keys, the only time you EVER use the remote is if the actual alarm is is going off or needs to be disarmed to start the vehicle.

 

[Larry Phillips]

I have a 2006 Mustang GT, with the manual. Mechanically identical, (actually that one looks just like mine) the owner's manual says

Caution- Always set the parking brake fully and make sure that the gearshift is securely latched in P (Park) (automatic transmission) or in 1 (first) (manual transmission).

Trust me, if it was engaged (unless there was a mechanical problem) that car won't move more than a foot or two in idle.

 

[EddieS'04]

L1TECH, Makes a good point. As I said above. It is all about taking 2 for safety. Never assume anything. IMO, a good lawyer will eat the dealership alive. Improper instalation mat affect warranty. The service writer was negligent with his asuming.



From the pics. It appears the car was already in the back lot. Who put it back there??

 

[scott degroot]

Unfortunately for the owner it is too late now being that the car was recovered...but there should have been an observation with a witness if the parking brake had been set or not when the car was recovered from the pond...if it wasn't then it is the dealers fault all day long because they failed to properly follow the operating instructions of the cars that they service.....I would bet a million dollars that the parking brake wasn't set.



If it were my car i would have an independent investigator look into this...I used to do this...and test the system to see if it was possible for this scenario to happen both with and without the parking brake set. Like Eddie said any lawyer worth 2 shakes would eat this alive

 

[Jeff Jolley]

Not sure about this dealership, but the ones that I've used all seem to have the same routine.



You pull your vehicle in to a designated area where the service writers are.



At that point the service writer will come over, do a walk around, fill out the service order and place it in the car.



The car is then moved and parked in a designated area by the service writer or another dealership employee.



Taking all this into consideration and assuming this dealership is no different than almost every other dealership, I would place the blame with them.



The employee that parked the vehicle should have made sure that it was secured and the park brake was set properly.



No employee of a dealership should ever use a remote start to start a vehicle, especially if that person was not the one who parked the car.

 

[Les]

...and the rest of the story:

The vehicle was equipped with a remote start system.

The system was installed in such a way as to circumvent the factory safety

systems that would have prevented it from starting in gear.

By the vehicle owner's own admission with a County Police Officer present, he stated that he personally installed this aftermarket system and intentionally disabled the factory safety system.

The vehicle owner used a remote that did not have a "start" button on it.

The vehicle owner admitted that he never notified our service personnel of the remote start system on his vehicle.

The vehicle owner had conversations with a remote starter installer prior to the installation. He was advised that his chosen method on installation was "unwise."

Several posters advised the owner against his choice even calling it "irresponsible behavior."