Gary DiPietroSr
Well-Known Member
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Anyone know about this theft device?
- Thread starter Gary DiPietroSr
- Start date
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Gary,
This is a very old news story that appeared over a year ago, or more.
As the story said, the FBI had acquired one of these mystery boxes and are trying to figure out how it works. I suspect by now they have figured it out, and pass the info to the auto makers. I doubt that they can do much to prevent the box from working on the cars already sold, but perhaps they can prevent the box from working on newer cars.
My understanding back then was that the mystery box appeared to only work on GM and some Japanese vehicles like Honda?
...Rich
This is a very old news story that appeared over a year ago, or more.
As the story said, the FBI had acquired one of these mystery boxes and are trying to figure out how it works. I suspect by now they have figured it out, and pass the info to the auto makers. I doubt that they can do much to prevent the box from working on the cars already sold, but perhaps they can prevent the box from working on newer cars.
My understanding back then was that the mystery box appeared to only work on GM and some Japanese vehicles like Honda?
...Rich
scott degroot
Well-Known Member
That's been around for a while. I think the thieves have to be close to you initially when you lock your vehicle so that they can pick up on the frequency and the code that your transmitter puts out. Once that's done they resend the info via the black box or if it's encrypted the box just starts sending out all sorts of info using the same encryption method until the doors open.
Gary DiPietroSr
Well-Known Member
Thanks to both of you.. I guess I was under a rock somewhere.
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Theifs were using it for garage doors for a while too !!!
Todd Z
Todd Z
I think I know how this device works.
The remotes use a Rolling Code that changes based on a random number generator (not really random but based on a seed number and a formula). Every time you hit one of the buttons on your remote, it sends a signal to the receiver in the vehicle and and the remote generates the next random number as does the Receiver so it knows what the next code will be when that remote is used again.
If you hit one of the buttons on your remote while you are out of range of your vehicle, the remote increments to the next random number, but the receiver does not know that the code was changed. So to prevent problems, the manufacturers allows the receiver to check the next 256 random codes in sequence, that synchronizes the receiver and remote. It does this so fast that you never realize that it was ever out of sync.
I think this device must know how the random number generator works, and and can predict the next 256 codes. Simply repeatedly pressing the button on the mystery box will generate the next 256 codes and the next 256 codes in sequence. That can amount to trying thousands of codes in just a few button presses. The rest may be just luck that they hit the right code quickly, or they just move on to the next vehicle???
...Rich
The remotes use a Rolling Code that changes based on a random number generator (not really random but based on a seed number and a formula). Every time you hit one of the buttons on your remote, it sends a signal to the receiver in the vehicle and and the remote generates the next random number as does the Receiver so it knows what the next code will be when that remote is used again.
If you hit one of the buttons on your remote while you are out of range of your vehicle, the remote increments to the next random number, but the receiver does not know that the code was changed. So to prevent problems, the manufacturers allows the receiver to check the next 256 random codes in sequence, that synchronizes the receiver and remote. It does this so fast that you never realize that it was ever out of sync.
I think this device must know how the random number generator works, and and can predict the next 256 codes. Simply repeatedly pressing the button on the mystery box will generate the next 256 codes and the next 256 codes in sequence. That can amount to trying thousands of codes in just a few button presses. The rest may be just luck that they hit the right code quickly, or they just move on to the next vehicle???
...Rich
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me like the designers of the system took the easy route by not making it so the key fob transmitter only increments its code if the car confirms that it has received the signal.
LaRue Medlin
Well-Known Member
I know a locksmith in Phoenix that has one. He won't tell me where he got it. Sure make lockouts easy...:banana:
KL,
Probably not the Easy Route, just the cheapest. Consider that if the remote transmitted the next code and the receiver replied, there is no guarantee that the remote actually received the return signal? That makes the communications cycle needlessly complicated.
I think the reason that these cloned remotes work with GM and Honda, etc is that their remote programs are easier to decipher....and probably why they don't work with other vehicles....they have not hacked the programs on remotes from Ford, Chrysler, and the German cars? Perhaps the wrong code will trigger the alarm and disable the remote until the door is opened with a key, and the key turns the ignition on.
This would not stop them from attempting to unlock the doors with this device, but they would only have one chance....which really reduces their chance of successfully unlocking the doors?
It also sounds like the thieves are not stealing the cars, they just want access to steal high end items in the cars like Smartphones, GPS, Ipads, cash, guns, etc.
...Rich
Probably not the Easy Route, just the cheapest. Consider that if the remote transmitted the next code and the receiver replied, there is no guarantee that the remote actually received the return signal? That makes the communications cycle needlessly complicated.
I think the reason that these cloned remotes work with GM and Honda, etc is that their remote programs are easier to decipher....and probably why they don't work with other vehicles....they have not hacked the programs on remotes from Ford, Chrysler, and the German cars? Perhaps the wrong code will trigger the alarm and disable the remote until the door is opened with a key, and the key turns the ignition on.
This would not stop them from attempting to unlock the doors with this device, but they would only have one chance....which really reduces their chance of successfully unlocking the doors?
It also sounds like the thieves are not stealing the cars, they just want access to steal high end items in the cars like Smartphones, GPS, Ipads, cash, guns, etc.
...Rich
