Jeffrey Travis
Well-Known Member
I believe Bill says it best at the very end.
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
Who is responsible for the housing/mortgage issues?
- Thread starter Jeffrey Travis
- Start date
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Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
Frank...
Watch this video...
Report back to us what you have learned...:blink:
Nevermind, the Koolaid is too strong!:lol:
Watch this video...
Report back to us what you have learned...:blink:
Nevermind, the Koolaid is too strong!:lol:
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
As I said before. Whole bunch of people need to be put before a fedral grand jury and some politicians need to be impeached.
It sounds like someithing that John McCain could use as a Campaign Ad. All he has to do is just add "I'[m John McCain, and I approve this ad"
Is most significantly points out just the opposite of what the Democrats have been saying, that the Republicans failed to regulate these agencies when in fact it was the Democrats who where resisting any regulation by Republicans. And it all boils down to partisan politics.
I hope more people will see this and that it gets aired on TV...I would love to see John McCain use it as a Campaign Ad since it is the Republicans who are getting blamed for this financial crisis. This film points out the who is really the fiscally irrisponsible party.
...Rich
Is most significantly points out just the opposite of what the Democrats have been saying, that the Republicans failed to regulate these agencies when in fact it was the Democrats who where resisting any regulation by Republicans. And it all boils down to partisan politics.
I hope more people will see this and that it gets aired on TV...I would love to see John McCain use it as a Campaign Ad since it is the Republicans who are getting blamed for this financial crisis. This film points out the who is really the fiscally irrisponsible party.
...Rich
buzz worth
Active Member
Concise finger pointing. whatever happened to tar & feathering greedy politicians?
ss
ss
Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
No Frank?!?
Where's Frank...anyone seen Frank?
oh, I forgot, he must be at a Obama Rally signing up
homeless people to vote.:lol:
I hope the Republicans watch for massive voter fraud.
Chicago Politicians are known for this
and Obamamania is nation wide.
Backed of course by scumbags from ACORN and George Soros.
The ultimate example of dumbing down a nation.
oh, and the Koolaid reference is from Ghiana, when Rev. Jim Jones
had his followers drink Cyanide laced Koolaid for those too young
to remember this, over 700 people died.
"Those who forget the lessons of the past are doomed in the future"
Where's Frank...anyone seen Frank?
oh, I forgot, he must be at a Obama Rally signing up
homeless people to vote.:lol:
I hope the Republicans watch for massive voter fraud.
Chicago Politicians are known for this
and Obamamania is nation wide.
Backed of course by scumbags from ACORN and George Soros.
The ultimate example of dumbing down a nation.
oh, and the Koolaid reference is from Ghiana, when Rev. Jim Jones
had his followers drink Cyanide laced Koolaid for those too young
to remember this, over 700 people died.
"Those who forget the lessons of the past are doomed in the future"
Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
Dumbing down a nation? Look no further than Sarah Palin: Rails against corporate greed, but gets economic advice from Carly Fiorina, who destroyed shareholder value at HP and took a $42 million golden parachute.. Advocates for "Joe six-pack" but bills Alaskans for sleeping at her own house...Is an expert on foreign policy because "you can see Russia from up here" ..... Can't answer the simplest questions in a softball interview and then blames Katie Couric for asking such hard questions...... Wants to expand the role of the Vice President but has no idea what the Veep actually does....
I'm sorry, but there is abundant evidence that she is absolutely unqualified to be Vice President, and that destroys John McCains claim to seasoned judgement. I don't understand this veiled Republican hatred of intellectuals and smart people in general- our founding fathers were certainly the greatest intellectuals of their day, as anyone can glean by reading a few paragraphs of the Constitution. In fact, they were the ELITE- educated, well read and prosperous.
Our next POTUS is inherting a quagmire of war, economic difficulty and rapidly falling American standing in the . No one can deny that too many have died in the desert, in a war that McCain, the decorated warrior, said would be short and easy, and that has now lasted longer than our involvement in WWII. McCain's time has passed.....I'm voting for the smart guy.....
I'm sorry, but there is abundant evidence that she is absolutely unqualified to be Vice President, and that destroys John McCains claim to seasoned judgement. I don't understand this veiled Republican hatred of intellectuals and smart people in general- our founding fathers were certainly the greatest intellectuals of their day, as anyone can glean by reading a few paragraphs of the Constitution. In fact, they were the ELITE- educated, well read and prosperous.
Our next POTUS is inherting a quagmire of war, economic difficulty and rapidly falling American standing in the . No one can deny that too many have died in the desert, in a war that McCain, the decorated warrior, said would be short and easy, and that has now lasted longer than our involvement in WWII. McCain's time has passed.....I'm voting for the smart guy.....
TomT
Well-Known Member
How did this thread go from the mortgage crisis to Sarah Palin? Am I missing something?
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Well, I think the blame lies directly on the individuals who bought houses they can't afford.
When I bought my house almost four years ago, the bank offered me a variable interest rate, and also asked if I wanted a second loan to remodel. I told them no thanks, and took a loan for just my house and borrowed from my 401K for the money to put in new carpet and do some other minor things. I think it was a smart move. I've already paid my 401K back the money I borrowed (from myself). I bought the house for $68 K and a fixed 5.8% interest rate for 30 years. Payments are dirt cheap -- only $8 more than my rent was including all escrow.
The bank would have let me buy a house almost twice the price, but I know I would have probably already lost that with the variable rate loan.
When I bought my house almost four years ago, the bank offered me a variable interest rate, and also asked if I wanted a second loan to remodel. I told them no thanks, and took a loan for just my house and borrowed from my 401K for the money to put in new carpet and do some other minor things. I think it was a smart move. I've already paid my 401K back the money I borrowed (from myself). I bought the house for $68 K and a fixed 5.8% interest rate for 30 years. Payments are dirt cheap -- only $8 more than my rent was including all escrow.
The bank would have let me buy a house almost twice the price, but I know I would have probably already lost that with the variable rate loan.
Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
I think the mortgage meltdown was due to easy money plus gullible people plus slick salesmen who profited most by selling the worst loans. Throw in the idea that prices could only rise forever and its a perfect storm waiting to happen. My lawyer and I bought an investment townhouse 3 years ago and had to actually demand a standard fixed rate loan after a dazzling presentation on a " pay option " arm where the payment on $350k could be as low as $700 a month. Of course, the one Non-optional thing that the salesman never mentioned was that the whole nut would have to eventually be repaid. We also thought that we would make a killing on this miserable little shoebox, so our greed was a factor as well. My neighbor, a wealthy contractor, embraced the market fully and had crews working full time on his "flippers" while the market was hot. Eleven foreclosures later, his own home is on the market with no takers. I feel we are in for a long, rough haul and I hear that people with Sterling credit and 30% down are having trouble getting loans now.
Jim parnell
Well-Known Member
NELSON OKC:
you were very smart in the way you handled your home purchase, if only half of the people who are in a mortgage mess/crisis of their own (foreclosure, etc) had done what you did, then the mortgage crisis, credit crisis, etc., etc., would not have occured
you were very smart in the way you handled your home purchase, if only half of the people who are in a mortgage mess/crisis of their own (foreclosure, etc) had done what you did, then the mortgage crisis, credit crisis, etc., etc., would not have occured
...or those that were selling the loan had a lick of respect for other people and avoided selling those loans...of the appraisers that were appraising the houses for thousands more than they were worth...or those in government that stood back and let it happen.
What ever happened to businiss ethics and responsibly?
Tom
What ever happened to businiss ethics and responsibly?
Tom
buzz worth
Active Member
WOW !!! Tom and I agree on something !
Greed will win out everytime over ethics.
ss
(when you go to vote, fire the lawyer and hire a businessman.....if any are running)
Greed will win out everytime over ethics.
ss
(when you go to vote, fire the lawyer and hire a businessman.....if any are running)
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Caveat emptor. It always applies.
They don't teach it too much anymore, but it should be basic knowledge for all adults. See the link.
They don't teach it too much anymore, but it should be basic knowledge for all adults. See the link.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
Not to be argumentative, but let's consider what you are saying:
They did respect them. Regulations changed that allowed new mortgage vehicles to be introduced and lower qualifications resulted. The loan officers sold these new types of loans to people that met the new, lower qualifications. Disrespecting them would be not giving them the loans if they were qualified.
Appraisers make their appraisals by finding similar, representative homes that recently sold in the surrounding community and base their numbers on those factors using a complex set of average calculations. In our capitalistic society something is "worth" what someone is "willing to pay for it". So, at the time, the homes were worth that much as displayed by the fact that other comparison homes were selling for that same amount. That is what appraisals are. The reason housing prices were going up is because there were millions of new home buyers in the marketplace (due to the lower qualifications), and demand outstripped supply. It wasn't because appraisors did anything wrong. Heck, most appraising today is done by computer programs that mine sales data.
If you follow this closely it was government regulation that caused this to happen in the first place, with the root cause being the lowered qualifications for home ownership that led to new types of mortgages, a flood of buyers and a bubble in demand. Some in government saw bad times coming and cooking the books via Fannie and Freddie, but unfortunately our adversarial two-party system has our country all but gridlocked to fix anything.
Nothing unethical was done here by business, other than Fannie and Freddie cooking their books once the sh!t started hitting the fan. That is bad, but the act of providing the loans to people that couldn't afford them wasn't unethical.
If anything it was the regulations that ultimately gave false-hope and a sense of entitlement to those that due to their low income level and/or spending habits previously would have never dreamed of home ownership. To me, that was the most unethical and heartless thing that could have been done.
A better question is whatever happened to "personal responsibility?" Or whatever happened to "not living beyond your means?" Or, whatever happened to "preparing for a rainy day?"
It's raining now. People bought homes assuming values would continue to grow for the next 30 years like they did the last 10 (speaking 18 months ago). Frankly, that's simply an unrealistic expectation.
TJR
Not to be argumentative, but let's consider what you are saying:
They did respect them. Regulations changed that allowed new mortgage vehicles to be introduced and lower qualifications resulted. The loan officers sold these new types of loans to people that met the new, lower qualifications. Disrespecting them would be not giving them the loans if they were qualified.
Appraisers make their appraisals by finding similar, representative homes that recently sold in the surrounding community and base their numbers on those factors using a complex set of average calculations. In our capitalistic society something is "worth" what someone is "willing to pay for it". So, at the time, the homes were worth that much as displayed by the fact that other comparison homes were selling for that same amount. That is what appraisals are. The reason housing prices were going up is because there were millions of new home buyers in the marketplace (due to the lower qualifications), and demand outstripped supply. It wasn't because appraisors did anything wrong. Heck, most appraising today is done by computer programs that mine sales data.
If you follow this closely it was government regulation that caused this to happen in the first place, with the root cause being the lowered qualifications for home ownership that led to new types of mortgages, a flood of buyers and a bubble in demand. Some in government saw bad times coming and cooking the books via Fannie and Freddie, but unfortunately our adversarial two-party system has our country all but gridlocked to fix anything.
Nothing unethical was done here by business, other than Fannie and Freddie cooking their books once the sh!t started hitting the fan. That is bad, but the act of providing the loans to people that couldn't afford them wasn't unethical.
If anything it was the regulations that ultimately gave false-hope and a sense of entitlement to those that due to their low income level and/or spending habits previously would have never dreamed of home ownership. To me, that was the most unethical and heartless thing that could have been done.
A better question is whatever happened to "personal responsibility?" Or whatever happened to "not living beyond your means?" Or, whatever happened to "preparing for a rainy day?"
It's raining now. People bought homes assuming values would continue to grow for the next 30 years like they did the last 10 (speaking 18 months ago). Frankly, that's simply an unrealistic expectation.
TJR
Alan Peters
Well-Known Member
How dare you use those 2 words in a sentance!
TomT
Well-Known Member
Unethical no, greedy yes. It was banks that came up with all kinds of inventive financing to get people into those homes. Balloon, ARM's, etc. It's kind of like banks that keep offering you more credit on you credit card or more cards when you can't pay off the one you have. It's not unethical but it's just wrong.
The banks wrongly thought that even if the person defaulted on their loan (which they knew they would), the bank would repossess the property and still make their money back. They just didn't grasp that home prices were over-inflated and the housing bubble was going to bust.
Not saying the person getting the loan shouldn't be the ultimate responsible party but like the millions of people in credit card dept, there are a LOT of stupid people out there. It doesn't help that greedy institutions are telling them they can afford something they can't.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
TomT said:
Yes, it was banks the created the new mortgage vehicles with lowered qualifications, but it was changes in government regulations related to said qualifications that gave them the opportunity to do it.
Once the regulations changed main street banks backed by wall street financial firms had to offer the loans to those that qualified.
TJR
Yes, it was banks the created the new mortgage vehicles with lowered qualifications, but it was changes in government regulations related to said qualifications that gave them the opportunity to do it.
Once the regulations changed main street banks backed by wall street financial firms had to offer the loans to those that qualified.
TJR
TomT
Well-Known Member
Most would not have qualified with a conventional loan.
We've been down this road before in several other posts. Again I'm not denying the Democrats screwed things up with their sub prime mortgages nor the federal reserves involvement. I'm just saying there were a lot of financial executives that got greedy and inflated an already bad situation and made it a lot worse.
We've been down this road before in several other posts. Again I'm not denying the Democrats screwed things up with their sub prime mortgages nor the federal reserves involvement. I'm just saying there were a lot of financial executives that got greedy and inflated an already bad situation and made it a lot worse.
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Here's a Saturday Night Live skit from last weekend about the bailout. It takes shots at both Democrats and Republicans. Strangely, it was up and running on NBC's web site yesterday morning, but was subsequently removed. I found it again today on this site. It's pretty funny, in a satirical way.
