Richard Kolb
Well-Known Member
I thought someone on the ranger boards had done this already.
V8 swap would it be worth it over all?
- Thread starter Don Donaldson
- Start date
Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:
Dan Long
Well-Known Member
Richard, maybe you should take a step back and calm down..... you're starting to sound like Frank.:blink:
Bill, I said bolt-ons.... with the option of stroking it if you want. A $500 set of Torque Monster headers, an intake spacer, and roller rockers go a long way on the Explorer 5.0 with the GT40P heads. The proper cam is even better if you want to go a step further. No need for a Lentech tranny at those power levels. A couple hundred for the Bauman shift kit and solenoid upgrades will be well spent though. I have no plans to race my truck, but I sure would like the availabilty of an extra 50-75 HP and 100-150 ft/lbs of torque when needed.
I don't plan on rebuilding before the install. My Explorer had 263,000 miles on it and ran perfect. I'll tend to any oil leaks or immediate concerns, do a tune up and install a few bolt-ons, but that's it.
Bill, I said bolt-ons.... with the option of stroking it if you want. A $500 set of Torque Monster headers, an intake spacer, and roller rockers go a long way on the Explorer 5.0 with the GT40P heads. The proper cam is even better if you want to go a step further. No need for a Lentech tranny at those power levels. A couple hundred for the Bauman shift kit and solenoid upgrades will be well spent though. I have no plans to race my truck, but I sure would like the availabilty of an extra 50-75 HP and 100-150 ft/lbs of torque when needed.
I don't plan on rebuilding before the install. My Explorer had 263,000 miles on it and ran perfect. I'll tend to any oil leaks or immediate concerns, do a tune up and install a few bolt-ons, but that's it.
Bill,
My poor spelling and grammer are do to the 3 eye surgeries and a couple of dislexiic fingers. If I'm not typing on a large flatpanel screen, it's hard to read what I typed In my case spell chekers are of limited value. I go back to the eye doctor Oct 22nd and perhaps he can come up with a better plan to improve my vision. So until thine you will all have to accept my spelling/typos.
Don,
I'm not Frank. I think I have a lot more logic and common sense than he does. Neither am I angry or foaming at the mouth. I am and always will be someone who tell it like I see it and probably more blunt than some people like, but I got that from my 20 years in the military.
I'm not trying to step on anyone's dreams of putting a V8 in their Sport Trac. I just want them to know that engine swaps are not easy, and puting a V8 is much harder than a lot of other engine swaps
I have done my share of engine swaps over the years and I even encounter problems swapping small blcck Chevy engines with different year small Block Shevy engines. The were still bolt-ins, but the starter ring gear did nto fit the new engine, the intake manifold would not allow the HEI distributor to fit, so I had to swap intakes, the exhaust manifolds did not fit and I had to swap them out with the ones from the old engine. None of the Alternator, AC, and power steering pump bracket fit and had to be swapped, which meant swaping the water pump becuase the new one did not have the correctmounting tabs, etc. In the end, a 2 day job took a week. and that was simply a small block to small block swap because of a blown enigne.
Unfortunately, Ford is even less consistent and less interchangeable, so if an exhaust manifold won;t fit, you may not be able to any Ford exhaust to fit and now you are talking about fabricating a custome exhaust.
My whole point is if it was that easy to swap a V8 into an early Explorer Sport or Sport Trac there would be dozens of write ups on these swaps and we would all kknow exactly how to do it, what it would cost and the exact parts needed. My position is that it is not that easy to do, and that's why nobody has done it or is talking about it. I know that somewhere, someone has stuffed a V8 into an Explorer Sport or Sport Trac just because they wanted to do it, regardless of the costs. They did it as a challenge and I salute them for their inginuety and sticking to their goals. But the simple fact is that it is not a practival swap to do for most daily drivers.
...Rich
My poor spelling and grammer are do to the 3 eye surgeries and a couple of dislexiic fingers. If I'm not typing on a large flatpanel screen, it's hard to read what I typed In my case spell chekers are of limited value. I go back to the eye doctor Oct 22nd and perhaps he can come up with a better plan to improve my vision. So until thine you will all have to accept my spelling/typos.
Don,
I'm not Frank. I think I have a lot more logic and common sense than he does. Neither am I angry or foaming at the mouth. I am and always will be someone who tell it like I see it and probably more blunt than some people like, but I got that from my 20 years in the military.
I'm not trying to step on anyone's dreams of putting a V8 in their Sport Trac. I just want them to know that engine swaps are not easy, and puting a V8 is much harder than a lot of other engine swaps
I have done my share of engine swaps over the years and I even encounter problems swapping small blcck Chevy engines with different year small Block Shevy engines. The were still bolt-ins, but the starter ring gear did nto fit the new engine, the intake manifold would not allow the HEI distributor to fit, so I had to swap intakes, the exhaust manifolds did not fit and I had to swap them out with the ones from the old engine. None of the Alternator, AC, and power steering pump bracket fit and had to be swapped, which meant swaping the water pump becuase the new one did not have the correctmounting tabs, etc. In the end, a 2 day job took a week. and that was simply a small block to small block swap because of a blown enigne.
Unfortunately, Ford is even less consistent and less interchangeable, so if an exhaust manifold won;t fit, you may not be able to any Ford exhaust to fit and now you are talking about fabricating a custome exhaust.
My whole point is if it was that easy to swap a V8 into an early Explorer Sport or Sport Trac there would be dozens of write ups on these swaps and we would all kknow exactly how to do it, what it would cost and the exact parts needed. My position is that it is not that easy to do, and that's why nobody has done it or is talking about it. I know that somewhere, someone has stuffed a V8 into an Explorer Sport or Sport Trac just because they wanted to do it, regardless of the costs. They did it as a challenge and I salute them for their inginuety and sticking to their goals. But the simple fact is that it is not a practival swap to do for most daily drivers.
...Rich
Dreman
Well-Known Member
Not a Sport Trac, but a Sport. Take a look.
dreman,
You know darn well that just because it was done with a Sport does not mean it can be done with a Sport Trac.
Not to insult any members here, but there are very few that are actually innovative.
Most care more about large wheels, big stereos, and cheap lifts.
I am not saying this to put down any members.
I would do an engine swap, but I have more projects on my plate than I can do. If my ST was not my daily driver, a V8 swap would be done.
Tom
You know darn well that just because it was done with a Sport does not mean it can be done with a Sport Trac.
Not to insult any members here, but there are very few that are actually innovative.
Most care more about large wheels, big stereos, and cheap lifts.
I am not saying this to put down any members.
I would do an engine swap, but I have more projects on my plate than I can do. If my ST was not my daily driver, a V8 swap would be done.
Tom
Clay Campbell
Well-Known Member
[Broken External Image]:
2001 5.0 Explorer Engine Bay
[Broken External Image]:
George C's Explorer Sport Trac Engine Bay 4.0
[Broken External Image]:
200? Ranger Engine Bay with the 5.0 swap
lady's and gentlemen, i believe we have twins
2001 5.0 Explorer Engine Bay
[Broken External Image]:
George C's Explorer Sport Trac Engine Bay 4.0
[Broken External Image]:
200? Ranger Engine Bay with the 5.0 swap
lady's and gentlemen, i believe we have twins
Last edited by a moderator:
Richard Kolb
Well-Known Member
Hey, that's the airbox I have in my ST in that last pic
Gentalmen,
I must agree that it appears that we have a few people who have indeed installed V8's into an Explorer Sport / Sport Trac. While not exactly a simple bolt-in, and many parts had to be changed/swaped or moved including the front axle, brake booster, headers, transmssion cooler, etc not to mention the V8 drive train, but it does not appear that any major surgery was needed.
So I will admit that I was wrong about a V8 not fitting in the Sport/Sport Trac engine compartment without extensive modifications. On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a simple bolt-in and 10 like installing the engine and bulding a new car agound it, I would rate this about a 5 or 6. I really expected it to be more like an 8.
The only issue not answered is the cost of either of these conversions? To most of us, the cost factor is what determines if we will try it.
For those of you who took the time to search out these conversions, I applaud your efforts. For those who just wanted to argue, well you all know who you are..
OK, now what do we have to debate about? I'm sure Caymen will come up with something.
...Rich
I must agree that it appears that we have a few people who have indeed installed V8's into an Explorer Sport / Sport Trac. While not exactly a simple bolt-in, and many parts had to be changed/swaped or moved including the front axle, brake booster, headers, transmssion cooler, etc not to mention the V8 drive train, but it does not appear that any major surgery was needed.
So I will admit that I was wrong about a V8 not fitting in the Sport/Sport Trac engine compartment without extensive modifications. On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a simple bolt-in and 10 like installing the engine and bulding a new car agound it, I would rate this about a 5 or 6. I really expected it to be more like an 8.
The only issue not answered is the cost of either of these conversions? To most of us, the cost factor is what determines if we will try it.
For those of you who took the time to search out these conversions, I applaud your efforts. For those who just wanted to argue, well you all know who you are..
OK, now what do we have to debate about? I'm sure Caymen will come up with something.
...Rich
Dreman
Well-Known Member
I just searched 'em out 'cause I like to argue!
Dan Long
Well-Known Member
Richard, you've finally seen the light!!!
As far as the parts you mention: the front axle and driveshaft is the same, brake booster is a fairly simple swap, headers/manifolds go with the motor anyway due to 2 extra cylinders, trans cooler is extremely easy to adapt the lines, and the tranny will require a modified rear driveshaft and possibly a modified support crossmember. If you can't handle these minor issues, you have no business even attempting this swap. The wiring will be far more time and labor intensive than any of this stuff.
My take on the cost is this:
$1000-2000 - donor vehicle
$100-200 - modified driveshaft
$0-100 - crossmember modification
$0-200 - exhaust modified to fit
$100-500 - misc. odds and ends, fluids, gaskets
Total cost $1200-3000 for someone who can do the work themselves and source good parts. This is probably the absolute minimum for a stock swap, obviously any bolt-ons or rebuilding will add to the cost. $500 for the headers, $80 for the intake spacer, $200 for roller rockers and $400 for a cam and valve springs will do wonders for the motor though, if the budget allows.
As far as the parts you mention: the front axle and driveshaft is the same, brake booster is a fairly simple swap, headers/manifolds go with the motor anyway due to 2 extra cylinders, trans cooler is extremely easy to adapt the lines, and the tranny will require a modified rear driveshaft and possibly a modified support crossmember. If you can't handle these minor issues, you have no business even attempting this swap. The wiring will be far more time and labor intensive than any of this stuff.
My take on the cost is this:
$1000-2000 - donor vehicle
$100-200 - modified driveshaft
$0-100 - crossmember modification
$0-200 - exhaust modified to fit
$100-500 - misc. odds and ends, fluids, gaskets
Total cost $1200-3000 for someone who can do the work themselves and source good parts. This is probably the absolute minimum for a stock swap, obviously any bolt-ons or rebuilding will add to the cost. $500 for the headers, $80 for the intake spacer, $200 for roller rockers and $400 for a cam and valve springs will do wonders for the motor though, if the budget allows.
Last edited by a moderator:
Don,
I did not mean that the front axle was replaced, it was dropped for clearance issues.
I have done more complicated engine swaps, but knew what I was getting into in advace because someone had do it before. I think the $300 0 figure is probably more accurate for this swap however I would never settle for an engine and transmission out of a $1000-$2000 donor car without rebuilding it first unless I knew it was a low mileage and wrecked.
What drives up the cost is the unknown issues that come up when you are doing a swap that nobody has pioneered before you. Even then there are often unexpected suprises. Like I said earlier. I replaced a blown Chevy 350 small block with a Chevy 307 small block. What should have been a 100% bolt in, I was suprised at the number of parts that I had to take off the old engine to make the new engine fit.
I had two Sport Tracs but got rid of my last one in January. I never had any desire to put a V8 in either one of them, and was quite pleased with the performance of the V6 in that size vehicle. I now drive a Mercedes Benz and find the engineering in that car far superior than anything Ford makes or anything I could cobble together in my shop. :lol:
...Rich
I did not mean that the front axle was replaced, it was dropped for clearance issues.
I have done more complicated engine swaps, but knew what I was getting into in advace because someone had do it before. I think the $300 0 figure is probably more accurate for this swap however I would never settle for an engine and transmission out of a $1000-$2000 donor car without rebuilding it first unless I knew it was a low mileage and wrecked.
What drives up the cost is the unknown issues that come up when you are doing a swap that nobody has pioneered before you. Even then there are often unexpected suprises. Like I said earlier. I replaced a blown Chevy 350 small block with a Chevy 307 small block. What should have been a 100% bolt in, I was suprised at the number of parts that I had to take off the old engine to make the new engine fit.
I had two Sport Tracs but got rid of my last one in January. I never had any desire to put a V8 in either one of them, and was quite pleased with the performance of the V6 in that size vehicle. I now drive a Mercedes Benz and find the engineering in that car far superior than anything Ford makes or anything I could cobble together in my shop. :lol:
...Rich
Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
Any Pics of the tracs you owned?any pics of your complicated engine swaps?
any pics of your benz?
Is nothing in your library
any pics of your benz?
Is nothing in your library
Last edited by a moderator:
Dan Long
Well-Known Member
It's Dan, not Don.
Clearance as in working room, or clearance as in engine won't fit room? Working room I can maybe see the need for, but there won't be any clearance issues. Especially on my truck, as I have no front axle!
The key to this swap and keeping costs down is a complete donor vehicle. Not just a drivetrain, but the entire vehicle. By doing this, all those little parts and brackets are on hand already. As for the rebuild, it would depend on what I knew of the vehicle's prior condition and how the compression check went, along with the other typical wear indicators. If I was relatively certain that it was running well, I'd drop the motor in and go after tending to any maintenance issues it may have. I'll take my chances, as I know what kind of mileage these motors are good for. If I have to pull it later and rebuild, oh well. At least I wasn't rebuilding a perfectly good engine.
Clearance as in working room, or clearance as in engine won't fit room? Working room I can maybe see the need for, but there won't be any clearance issues. Especially on my truck, as I have no front axle!
The key to this swap and keeping costs down is a complete donor vehicle. Not just a drivetrain, but the entire vehicle. By doing this, all those little parts and brackets are on hand already. As for the rebuild, it would depend on what I knew of the vehicle's prior condition and how the compression check went, along with the other typical wear indicators. If I was relatively certain that it was running well, I'd drop the motor in and go after tending to any maintenance issues it may have. I'll take my chances, as I know what kind of mileage these motors are good for. If I have to pull it later and rebuild, oh well. At least I wasn't rebuilding a perfectly good engine.
Craig Childs
Active Member
In a thread a while ago, Bill said
Then he said, in this one
Make up your mind Bill. And it's spelled grammar and you're
Oh, and check his library, there's a picture of him with his Benz in there.
Then he said, in this one
Make up your mind Bill. And it's spelled grammar and you're
Oh, and check his library, there's a picture of him with his Benz in there.
Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
yes sir
saw the benz You must be RLs boyfriend:wub:
saw the benz
You must be RLs boyfriend:wub:Lets not forget, rebuilding a 302 is relativly simple.
New set of rings, bearings, and honing the cylinders is relativly easy and pretty much all it takes. New Waterpump and new oil pump and you are set.
You are right up to snuff.
No biggie there.
Tom
New set of rings, bearings, and honing the cylinders is relativly easy and pretty much all it takes. New Waterpump and new oil pump and you are set.
You are right up to snuff.
No biggie there.
Tom
Dan,
Sorry about refering to you as Don.
Here in Texas you cannot buy a wrecked donor car from a junk yard unless you are certified as a body shop that is capable of doing a proper restor. I know that the intent is not to restore the donor car, but Texas does not want cars that were totaled by the insurance companies to be put back on the road or sold if they are not safe. If they are running, they are not in a junkyard
So in Texas you would have to buy the vehilce from someone, and for the prices you quoted, you are not likely to find a fresh engine/ transmission unless the guy wrecked it and kept it in his backyard
If the donor is running you could test drive it, but at that price you are probably going to get a pretty tired engine. I would prefer to rebuild it, but that is just me.
Tom,
That may be what you call rebuilding an engine, but I don't. What you are doing is called a top end overhaul. And it is not even that because you are not doing a valve job.
My areuild includes complete dismantling of the engine and all parts measuted for wear. If the cylinders are in spec, then a honing is sufficient, but in most cases they are not and that will require boring and oversized pistons and rings. If it neds to be bord you might just as well do a valve job and replace the valve stem seals and springs. If the top end is getting rebuilt then you should also do the bottom end as well. I would check the rod and crank journals and regrind if necessary and put in new mearings.
If I am going to do that kind of work, I would have the shole block hot tanked an all the oil galleys cleand and new freeze plugs. The block should be align bord and decked. and the head will need some machine work to to ensure they are flat and true.
I always replace the oil pump since it seems silly to do all that work and put an old worn out pump back in.
If the engine needs that kind of work, the transmission probably needs some TLC. If the fluid looked OK, I might just go with a tranny flush, otherwise it would probably get rebuilt as well.
So in the end, if I was doing this swap on my own Sport Trac I would allocate about $5K to do it right. If I could not afford to do it right, I wouldn't do it. In the case of a Sport Trac, I have no desire to put a V8 an either of the ones I owned. I don't tow or haul anything that requires V8 muscle and if I did, the Sport Trac brakes would not be adequate to stop that kind of weight. I don't need the HP for racing because the Sport Trac is not a very good canddate for a racing vehicle If I really wanted to go fast, I would have never picked a Sport Trac for that purpose, it's way too heavy and clumsy.
...Rich
Sorry about refering to you as Don.
Here in Texas you cannot buy a wrecked donor car from a junk yard unless you are certified as a body shop that is capable of doing a proper restor. I know that the intent is not to restore the donor car, but Texas does not want cars that were totaled by the insurance companies to be put back on the road or sold if they are not safe. If they are running, they are not in a junkyard
So in Texas you would have to buy the vehilce from someone, and for the prices you quoted, you are not likely to find a fresh engine/ transmission unless the guy wrecked it and kept it in his backyard
If the donor is running you could test drive it, but at that price you are probably going to get a pretty tired engine. I would prefer to rebuild it, but that is just me.
Tom,
That may be what you call rebuilding an engine, but I don't. What you are doing is called a top end overhaul. And it is not even that because you are not doing a valve job.
My areuild includes complete dismantling of the engine and all parts measuted for wear. If the cylinders are in spec, then a honing is sufficient, but in most cases they are not and that will require boring and oversized pistons and rings. If it neds to be bord you might just as well do a valve job and replace the valve stem seals and springs. If the top end is getting rebuilt then you should also do the bottom end as well. I would check the rod and crank journals and regrind if necessary and put in new mearings.
If I am going to do that kind of work, I would have the shole block hot tanked an all the oil galleys cleand and new freeze plugs. The block should be align bord and decked. and the head will need some machine work to to ensure they are flat and true.
I always replace the oil pump since it seems silly to do all that work and put an old worn out pump back in.
If the engine needs that kind of work, the transmission probably needs some TLC. If the fluid looked OK, I might just go with a tranny flush, otherwise it would probably get rebuilt as well.
So in the end, if I was doing this swap on my own Sport Trac I would allocate about $5K to do it right. If I could not afford to do it right, I wouldn't do it. In the case of a Sport Trac, I have no desire to put a V8 an either of the ones I owned. I don't tow or haul anything that requires V8 muscle and if I did, the Sport Trac brakes would not be adequate to stop that kind of weight. I don't need the HP for racing because the Sport Trac is not a very good canddate for a racing vehicle If I really wanted to go fast, I would have never picked a Sport Trac for that purpose, it's way too heavy and clumsy.
...Rich
For the average mileage engine, that is usually all it takes. My brother had something done to his 351. The gropped a pice of scotch brite into the engine. It got sucked up into the oil pump. He lost all oil pressure. He pulled the engine, tore the block apart, and cleaned it. New bearing rings and rings. Reused the pistons, cam, and crank. New oil pump. Heads were fine. New timing chain.
Sold the truck to someone he knows of.
That quick build is running 100,000 miles on it and running strong.
There is nothng wrong with running the old pistons, cam, and heads if they are in good working order.
Tom
