this is foolish

[Bill V]

Q, you're the one who is "waaaay" off base. No one on here is speaking any hate--except for you, when you're saying that those of us who don't agree with you are full of Satan and the devil. The issue is not people getting offended by others saying "Merry Christmas"--very few people fall in that category. The issue is people who ARE getting offended by others saying "Happy Holidays". There was a huge uproar because the President Bush's "Christmas card" (I put that in quotes simply because I don't know what term the White House actually used for it, but effectively, that's what it is) said "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". It wasn't done because the White House is afraid of using the phrase "Merry Christmas"--it was because they wanted to be inclusive of people of any/all faiths. And for showing such tolerance, many Christians throughout the country got in a tizzy. The same goes for many businesses using "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings"--there are attempts being made by many Christian groups to boycott these business, simply because they uttered an expression of good will. They did it out of courtesy and respect, not out of fear, (and most definitely not because they're possessed by Satan, as you insinuate), and for this, some Christians are eager to lynch them.



'Christ' is not at all an unaccepted or dirty word. But it's not a mandatory one either.



(edit: I can't believe that I'm actually defending Bush here, against someone far more conservative than me! :lol: )

 

[Tom R]

The issue is people who ARE getting offended by others saying "Happy Holidays".

That's not the issue with me, my gripe/beef is with the issue of anybody being afraid of insulting or offending anybody else so now we have all this political correctness b.s. to deal with. It just keeps on snowballing bigger and bigger, when does it stop?



Call a spade a spade and leave it at that. Happy holidays, Season's greetings and whatever else you may use is fine with me, but the corporations calling a Christmas tree a Holiday tree to just be politically correct is wrong.



We as Americans are not liked around the world, that's pretty clear to many of us. The path of P.C. doesn't help us out much anyway, it seems to stir up more b.s. than it does to help the situation.



Many things in this Country need to change, we should all stop the Political Correctness and like I said, call a spade a spade and don't beat around the bush, Also, get rid of the welfare state mentality, make people earn their benefits, end Affirmative Action, the best qualified person gets the job based upon their qualifications, not their ethnicity, the list goes on and on and on and on..........

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

I'm voting for Tom!!

 

[Kerry Matthews]

Got news for ya, Q... For those of us that don't believe, there ain't no devil. There ain't no god. period. So none of it means anything to us non believers. Maybe we just feel sorry for ya because you need such a crutch in life. But I don't like it either when people try to push religion on me, like I don't know any better. I had enough indoctrination in catholic grade schools. You've been 'brainwashed' by religion, like you NEED to have it in order to be 'saved'... Saved from what? Still can't believe that 'normally' smart people can suspend their belief in logic to swallow some of the stuff christains believe in! When I die, that's it baby... Spread my ashes in the mountains near Tahoe, cause I'm audi. No afterlife, no 73 virgins, no eternal 'bliss'... nada!



The world would be a better place without religion and it's gods. Now I'm off to drive my Sport Trac to work, and then to Tahoe to enjoy my mortal life, while I still can!

Hope y'all had a happy whatever you celebrate! More power to ya!

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

I think the main theme here is that Political Correctness has gotten out of hand and should be abolished. Political correctness has drastically obscured reality. We no longer know what we are talking about. Let me give an example. If I am looking for an employee to do computer data entry and the person is listed as "handicapped" as opposed to describing his condition then I will not know if he is qualified or not. If he is crippled he may very well be a good candidate, but if he is blind I would have a problem. Two people walk into a room, on from Kenya, the other from the Bronx. If I am looking to give the "African-American" a ticket who should I give it to if they are both black? What if the guy from Kenya is white and is an American citizen, whereas the black individual is an British citizen just visiting in the U.S. Handicappedhas been used to described almost any condition even when it is very prevalent. If a person is slightly Dyslexic, they are handicapped yet are full capable of performing almost every task you can imagine. Mental impairment is also a handicap condition and implies a drastically different situation.



"Body Bags" are referend to as "body recovery containers" or some such thing. We try to delute athe description of anything we do not like or want to face. If political correctness and sexual harrassment rules were in effect, I would never have married my wife because asking for a date would have been illegal.



There are many unpleasant things in this world. Let's not hide behind "fluffy" words so that we do not have to face them.

 

[Bill V]

Q, first of all, I'll admit that I had missed that first quote when I was going through this thread. Let's face it, it's getting long.



Secondly, I still say that neither of those quotes expresses any hate TOWARD CHRISTIANITY ITSELF. The first quote expresses hatred (and I think the term is used here in exaggeration to make a point, not as true actual 'hate') for the way some people will avoid actually, physically helping their fellow human being by instead saying, "No, but I'll pray for you." IMHO, that avoidance technique is about as un-Christ-like as it gets.



It then also expresses hate (again, I think in exaggerated form) for people who try to evangelize others--but not of Christian faith itself. And frankly, I feel that's a valid thing to disapprove of. When someone tries to evangelize/convert others, they are effectively saying that their beliefs are right, and that any beliefs that anyone else has are inferior to theirs and wrong. Which to me, is one of the mosts egotistical, vain, inconsiderate statements one can make. I can completely understand someone hating that attitude from others--without hating someone's belief in Christ at all.



The second quote doesn't mention hate towards Christianity. I disagree to an extent with the person who posted it about some of the things they say, but they only say that they don't want to be forced to participate in anyone else's religious beliefs--a stance that I get the feeling you agree with.



Tom R., I agree with you regarding people who get offended by a wish of "Merry Christmas". They don't have a leg to stand on. But they've been there in years past, are here again this year, without much change. What is bringing this issue to the forefront more this year than others IS the people who are getting upset by things like the White House Christmas card saying "Happy Holidays". It's the fundamentalist Right, not the liberal Left, that is the primary instigator this year...

 

[Bill V]

Q, sorry, but your rhetoric to Krash should be pointed right back at yourself. You never really believed in any PERSON but yourself. You refuse to acknowledge that anyone else can have beliefs that can be just as well thought out and correct as yours, and still be different than yours. You're too proud/vain/egotistical (take your pick) to admit that a) you might be wrong, someone else might be right, and the devil and/or God might not exist; and b) if the devil does exist, he likely has enough power that it might actually be you, not others, that are under his control.

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

Come on guys, play nice or you'll not get any cookies and a nap later.

 

[Bill V]

Q, thanks for the laugh. It's been fun! :lol:



Later!

 

[Kerry Matthews]

You know Q, IF I were 20 y.o. I MIGHT take offense to your remarks. But I'm in my 40's, and well past the 'indestructable' phase. I used to drink. A lot. (Quit @ 12 years ago.) Used to do drugs too. (Quit those about 15 years ago) I've had several near death experiences, complete with the 'life flashing before your eyes' ordeal and all... Didn't think I was going to make it. So yes, I HAVE been there. I STILL don't believe in a god or in Santa Claus. And yes, I DO believe in myself, or I'd never be able to get out of bed in the morning to face another day! I'm the one that's going to put food on my table, a roof over my head, clothes on my back. I've yet to see your god do that for someone else! Like I said, I've been exposed to the christian religion. IT seems so silly & illogical. Every bit of it. THAT'S why I don't believe, not because I used to drink or do drugs. I will admit that LSD helped me see past the retoric. Did you know that LSD is made from ergot, a fungus found in bread that was quite prevalent during Christ's 'supposed' time here on the big blue shiny marble? Could it be that they were all 'under the influence' when they saw these supposed 'miracles'? I know I've seen some pretty unbelievable things while I was trippin'! Hand out some 'tainted' bread, and soon, the whole crowd's seeing things! There are logical explanations for most of what the bible calls 'miracles', and I'll side with logic any day. And as far as my I.Q., I've never been tested, but I'm far from an idiot. And it's not your I.Q., it's your common sense that determines whether you make it or not in this world.



I gotta go now... Time to have fun! Y'all have a happy new year! (yes, I DO believe in New Year! )