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Michelle Widell

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I need some advice from parents of teenagers who may have gone through a similar situation...



My boyfriend has two daughters of whom has had custody of for the past 6 years since his divorce from his ex. They are 17 and 19, and he is having issues with the 17 year old, Shannon. Their mother is/was a meth addict and an alcoholic. Their dad (my boyfriend) is a paramedic who works 24 on/48 off, owns his own home in a very nice area, pays for most everything for both daughters, bends over backwards to help them, and has not received monetary support for their care from his ex for several years.



Shannon is an honor roll student, yet is one of the most obstinate people I have ever met. I know most teens think they know it all, but I've never met one who "shoves it in people's faces" that she is an honor roll student, knows how to speak 4 languages fluently, wants to go to Yale, etc. At first she was a bit intimidating, but now I find her downright arrogant. I bite my lip whenever I am around her, and try to act nice.



Last week she went to the family doc because of her mood swings and "PMS", and the doc wanted to prescribe Prozac.



Friday, they got into an arguement over her wanting to leave before doing her chores, and she walked out saying "I'm not cleaning YOUR house". (Her bedroom is beyond anything I can describe as to how filthy it is...) Her aunt was waiting in the driveway to take her to her mom's house (Shannon is grounded from using her car for other than work or school, because she was in an accident in Dec and is on 6 month court supervision.) My boyfriend told her she wasn't leaving, she got into the car, and her pulled her out and made her go into the house. After more arguing, she called the police and told them that he hit her.



Police came.. told her that her dad has the right to detain her (not allow her to leave). Despite her call to 911 that her dad hit her, they found no physical evidence. They took her to juvenille detention for evaluation by a counselor. He had to talk to the counselor too, who told him after speaking with his daughter "I wish I had a daughter like that". Shannon had lied about why her dad had custody of them, and portrayed herself to be a model child.



On top of that, upon his insisting that she have a drug test, she's admitted to the counselor that she's been smoking pot. (She already smokes cigarettes to "ease the stress", as she calls it. The police found the cigarettes in her purse and took them.)



She's made life hell at his house, and she wants to move out and live with her 19 year old boyfriend. She is insisting he has been physically abusing her and keeps telling him that she wants to go to court to be emancipated.



He doesn't know how to control his daughter.. I told him perhaps he should find a parent support group, and some friends of mine said that he should send her to a so-called "boot camp" for the summer.



(I think I'll enjoy my daughter's tender age of 10 for awhile.. sheeezzz!!!)



Advice...?

 
Just now have my first child on the way but it wasnt THAT long ago I was a teenager myself. My advice: how much longer till she's 18? My not be worth the stress and arguing at the moment. I know that sounds bad, but sounds like she's made up her mind about things. Wait it out, try to be civil, and wait for her 18th b-day to roll around, and at that point she's an adult. Let her go, and find out how the world really is. Counseling and grounding and all that will just cause more problems at home, since she is obviously charming to anyone outside the family that knows better. Counseling at that point would be a waste. Groundings and reprimands will fall on deaf ears.
 
hi michelle. i have 3 teenagers 2 boys 21, 19 and a daughter turning 17 this july 10th, and the truth is.. she more of a hand ful then my boys were.. but being thats she's almost 18teen there's really not much her dad and you can do. and like the other person said about the counseling i to think it would be a waste of time. when my kids started junior high school and started going off the street. well i just sat them down and told them that while there out and about you 2 boys need to use you good judgment and figure out right from wrong. and if you get into trouble. and the police are involved. do bother calling home cause i or your dad will bail you out of juvenille hall. you just have to sit there and take care it yourselfs. so i been pretty lucky so far with my boys. there not into gangs or drugs. now my daughter. january of last year. she was 15 in a half and i got off from work at 5pm and she wanted to go to the mall so i took her and told her to call me when she ready to come home. well at about 730pm that evening we get a call from the mall police to come and pick her up cause she go busted shoplifting a fricking 8.00 dollar top. and she has around 80.00 dollar when they detained her.. so it wasnt a money issue.. so. she had to go to juvenille court and see a judge. and explain to her why she did it. so the judge issued her 30 hrs community service. and fined her 399 dollar. but reduced it down to 89 dollar. and she had to go to a petty thieft class for 2 weekends 8hrs a day. and then when she was all done i took her to go pay her fine and turn inall her paperwork. and she had to stay out of trouble for the next 6months and if she didnt the bail would go from 89 dollar back to 399 dollars. and would be in more trouble for what ever she go busted for the second time. and i told her that if she got in to any trouble for any reason dont bother calling us cause ill just tell the police to just take you to juvenille hall or if your 18 or older take you to jail and stay there.. the moral of my story is the 2 of you need to be kinda hard and let her figure out her own problems thats the only way i did things. and so far its working. so my 2 boys graduated from high school and my daugther will in 07 but the problem were having with her now is she dont want to get up in the morning for school shes has good grades so far. so she doing ok. just the getting up issue we have going on now.. but were working on that. so just be patience with her and she'll be an adult soon and what ever she does will be on her. not on you 2.. i just wanted to share my story. with you so good luck.
 
Wow, I am a divorced father of a single child, a 15 year old that knows it all, and so far no major trouble, been a couple of smaller issues, but more is brewing I can tell. My scenario, I divorced 3 years ago when she was 12. I got custody of her, kept my house, my vehicle, gave the ex over $25,000.00 in credit card debt and she pays me child support.



After the divorce, her mother went out of town for over a year chasing a married man who had lived here locally but moved back up north to avoid problems with his second wife. Things went along well, the daughter didn't get her every other weekend visitation with her mother, but she did get to fly up there for her summer and christmas breaks. Her mother moved back down here last Easter with her then fiance so he could get his divorce finalized. That's when things started going downhill, I was now the bad guy because I was the one with all the rules and discipline to deal with and it seemed that whenever she went off with her mother for the weekend visitation, it was a vacation for her. A clause in my divorce decree said no overnight visitation with a member of the opposite sex as long as my daughter was there, same thing went for the ex's new fiance on both of his children, one from each previous marriage (It also applies to me and I have stuck to it). So my ex and him got married last June, I don't really know if it was for convienience so they wouldn't have an issue with visitation or what, but it doesn't matter, they are married now. Since then, whenever I discipline my daughter it gets thrown back in my face that it won't matter when she goes to live with her mother. That is still an issue that is ongoing, so much so that the ex moved into a townhouse right across the street from my daughters high school so if/when the daughter goes to live with her, she will remain in the same school district.



My daughter is somewhat like your problem, Shannon. She had been a straight "A" honor roll student since day one up until the ex moved back in town, then my daughters grades went downhill somewhat and I had to put the brakes on her, her school work came back up. Her school guidance counselor had told her that it wasn't going to be an issue with her trying to figure out how to get to college, the issue would be deciding which college scholorship to accept. My daughter is different in the arrogant sense that you are dealing with in that she doesn't brag or flaunt that she is a brilliant kid, actually she hates the fact that the school recoginizes and gives out awards for that stuff because she say's it makes her look stuck up and like a geek to the other kids in school. Since she had excelled in all of her schoolwork and stuff before the ex moved back, I had bought her a used but immaculate Volkswagen Jetta back in January of last year with the intention of giving it to her on her 15th birthday which was in May when she would get her learners permit. That didn't happen, with her grades falling off, her mouth getting atrocious, her chores slacking off and her getting in trouble for hanging with the wrong crowd and experimenting with marijuana on 4/20 of last year, I just couldn't see rewarding her with a "paid for" car after all of that, so I held on to it hoping things would come back around. Her mother let it out of the bag that she had a car ready to be given to her by me, but after her getting in trouble that wasn't gonna happen. I told the daughter after that, that I sold the car, but I actually held on to it hoping that things would improve with her behaviour and I would give it to her later, hopefully by Christmas last year. I won't go into details here, but by August she had gotten into trouble again but this time with me having to involve the police. We (My Ex, her husband and myself) had a sit down talk/conference with my daughter to set her straight, her mouth and attitude got her into trouble during that conversation, and I had enough, I grabbed my key ring<
 
The bedroom issue mirrors my daughters, she can never keep it clean. Her only responsibility is to keep her bedroom and her bathroom clean and she gets an allowance for also doing the weekly laundry. The bedroom issue is pretty much under control now, after I would go to work in the evening on fridays, the ex would pick her up for the weekend. After having several discussions about her having her bedroom clean before she left and it not getting done, she has finally got the point, it doesn't stay spotless, but it is alot better than it was. Same thing goes for when she goes to school in the a.m., that her bed must be made, and if it isn't, I told her I will march down to the bus stop, loud her out in front of her friends and make her come back home and make it, that has pretty much taken care of that. She is still holding a 3.961 gpa factored from day one of kindergarten up to now in the 10th grade, even with her struggling/slacking off in her current English class, which she is back on track with now. I know that she acts up and lets her grades drop and gives me attitude and just tries to push my buttons (she's pretty effective at that) so that I will tell her to get out and approve of her going to live with her mom. Her wanting to go live with her mom is still an issue and whenever I discipline her, it comes up that I won't have to worry about her not doing her chores or being concerned about her grades much longer (Meaning that she will be living with her mom soon).



I consulted an Attorney about the issue of her wanting to live with her mom. The bottom line that I got out of that was pretty clear when he told me "Your place as a parent is to not be a friend to your daughter, but you must prepare her for the world and if tough love is what it takes, then that's what it takes", he then went on to tell me "His oldest daughter, now 26 had come back to him when she turned 24 and old and told her dad, "thank you for being so tough on me when I was a pain in the ass teenager, because if you hadn't, I would probably of been dead by now", and that sometimes they realize it sooner and sometimes later".



My daughter has tried that routine of wanting to be emancipated and so on. The ex tries to push the issue that if it comes to it and an Attorney gets involved to represent the daughter, then thats what might happen. Right now, they don't have the money for one, and I am not getting one. The ex has made comments that if our daughter comes to live with her that she wants me to sign over custody rights to her and arrange for me to pay child support, etc..., I refuse to do that, I even went so far as to work out a joint custody plan where the daughter lives with me monday through friday, and the ex gets her every weekend and every school holiday and summertime, neither one of us would pay the other child support and so on, but she rejected it, but that is basically exactly what we are doing currently. For now, I just plug along and try to pick my battles on the really important things and hope that how she is being brought up will help her in life.



Sorry I don't have any real advice to give you, mainly because I haven't gotten through it yet. I just wanted to share some of what I deal with and let you know that you all are not alone with the teenager problem. I just sense some similarities with her wanting to live somewhere else and making life hell at home until she gets her way.



Just think, in less than 3 years, your 10 year old will be a teenager too.;)
 
I am a single dad also. My daughter chose to live with me two summers ago, because her mother was abusing her (actually tried to choke her and had threatened her with physical harm several times before that). She also was giving her eight assorted pills for anxiety, depression, sleeping problems, stomach problems, etc. Now that she is with me, she takes no medicine unless she is sick, and her school work and social life have improved dramatically.



My daughter is 14, and also a straight "A" student. She is very proud of this fact, and is looking forward to college as well. I choose my battles carefully, and if I need to impose restrictions because of bad behavior, I choose limited punishments. I do not ground her from absolutely everything, because I think just limiting computer use to homework and/or no TV for a few days gets the message across.



My fiancee has a 24 year old daughter who is divorced with four small children that is a good example for her to witness. While these children are well-behaved and wonderful to be around, my daughter sees how the mom's choice to start a family in high school has ruined her plans to go to college and start a good life for herself. She too was a straight "A" student, but now has to work at 7-11 and receives welfare to feed those kids.



I believe your boyfriend's daughter needs to see something like this. She is in love with her boyfriend, and that is her most important thing right now, but she needs to know that if she chooses this path right now, before finishing college, she can ruin her life. At 17, it is basically her choice, because like it or not, your boyfriend's rules will not hold her after her 18th birthday.



I would give her more freedoms to end the rebelliousness. Treating her more like an adult, instead of a child may convince her to stay after her 18th birthday. I would explain to her that no matter what she does, you will always love her, because she is your flesh and blood. Also tell her that you worry about her choices lately because you don't want her to ruin the good start she has in her life.



One thing I would not do is put her on Prozac. Shannon is experiencing stress which is normal for her age. She is being faced with many decisions regarding her future in college, with her boyfriend, etc. In addition, her mom is almost absent in her life. You, Michelle have entered her life, but because it was so late you haven't fit in as a parent. I don't know if you live with your boyfriend and his daughters, but that could be an additional stressor if that is the case, since two more people will add to the stress already in the home.



Regarding the room. Is the room actually big enough to hold everything that Shannon has accumulated in 17 years? If not, then I think the family should help her get her room situation fixed. By that, I mean she will need help packing the clothes that don't fit and clearing out the toys and other things of her childhood. Do a room makeover, because if it looks like some kid lives there, it definitely isn't a room for a young woman. I think it should be set up more like an efficiency apartment where Shannon can feel comfortable to escape and have some privacy. I have set my daughter's room up this way, and she loves her room. It gets messy at times, but is not overly so. Explain to Shannon that this new room is her domain, and that it will be respected just as her dad's room is. This rule should apply to the rooms of both daughters.



Addressing this room issue may also have the added benfit of letting both daughters know they are welcome in the home for the long-term, and that even if they go away, they will always have a place to come to if life away from home becomes too much. My brother moved back home after being out on his own right after he turned 18, so your boyfriend's daughter may do the same.



One thing you didn't mention is how the relation
 
Tuff situation.



The only thing I can think of is some sort of a ride along. By that I mean let her see what will happen to her if she keeps on this path. Take her to the scene of accidents where other teens have either cost them their lives or others. Show her what drugs and alcohol will do to her at this age. Let her see other kids in jail. Maybe even a trip to the morgue.....



Maybe a kick of reality might help as it sounds like nothing else is...



Best of luck to you....
 
Michelle,

I am in the army and we see a lot of kids that have the same attitude problems. I woudl suggest that he let her go out on her own and cut her off 100%, no money, no paying for anything, and let her find out that life i shard out there. I think it is bad that when single parents give so much to their kids and they do crap like that. It may be the only way for her to understand what she really has, it seems like that her dad has pretty much tried to do his best, sometimes it is best to let them suffer some.



Michael
 
That is a hard age. I remember my own problems as a kid. However, it seems that things are much worse now.



I hear stories all the time from parents of straight-"A" kids whose kids are also basically delinquents. I credit that to school being way too easy for them, and they get in trouble because they are bored.



I don't have an answer. Kids are way too smart these days. I guess the only think is to push 'em out at 18 and see if they learn from their mistakes. I know it took me to 25-30 to finally grow up, even though I got married and went back to college at 21 (and earned a 3.38 while working up to three part-time jobs and taking up to 18 hours a semester together). My growing up took quite a while--probably at last 10 years from age 20 to 30. Even though I had smart, educated, and very caring parents, I had to experience pain myself and learn it all myself. Now at 45 my parents are starting to get a little smarter and I listen to them in their final years.



Good luck.
 
Nelson - no, her dad and I do not live together. We each have our own homes. Sometimes the "spending the night" thing happens, but maybe once a week.



Shannon isn't on Prozac, but a doctor said he'd prescribe it for her. I think antidepressants are over prescribed and should be used at a last resort - she needs to learn to deal with her issues without the use of drugs.



Thanks Paulette and Tom - your experiences show "been there, done that, this is what I've done".. it helps out.



About her room, I've told my boyfriend that I've seen many teenagers rooms and most all are all a mess. Both of the daughter's rooms are fairly small (10x12 maybe?), and they share a bathroom. Her older sister's bedroom is not clean but isn't disgustingly messy either - their dad can live with that. The big thing is that even tho he's owned his house for 10+ years, buying it new, all of the walls are white and void of paint. He's said that his daughters wanted to paint their rooms, and he wouldn't allow them to. I think he should organize a room makeover.



Audrey is 19, and is the exact opposite of Shannon. She's a very quiet girl who doesn't talk much, and is really of no help to her little sister. In fact, Shannon dominates Audrey. Sometimes I wonder if Audrey would be better off without her sister there to dominate her, but then again I think Audrey would retreat even more into her shell without her sister being there. Audrey works for Target part-time doing warehouse work, and I've asked one of my clients about giving her a full-time office job so that she can develop some independence. She's a creative girl, and given a bucket of paint and a paintbrush, I think she could help her little sister feel more at home there.



Shannon's mother is of no help. As I mentioned before, she had a problem with meth and is an alcoholic, and my boyfriend believes that she mooches money off her daughters and uses them as a "shoulder to cry on" for all the trouble in her own life. She's there to tell either girl that their dad is an SOB. The girls have an older half-sister, who has 3 pages of criminal offenses, two illegitimate children from a mixed-relationship, and jumps from job to job.



I have a stepdaughter from my previous marriage who is now 25. She was also an honor roll student, and developed an attitude at 16. She was a beautiful girl who was supposed to graduate school a semester early as she had enough credits. She started dating an older boy who was a druggie and a drop-out, and she threatened to run away from home at 17, so we "felt bad" and let her move in with us. Big.. BIG mistake. Despite our rules that no one was allowed over while we were gone, she ignored that and her boyfriend and friends stole stuff from our home. After about two months and continuing hell, we threw her stuff out on the lawn and told her to leave. She lived in her car with her boyfriend (he "lived" off his friends in their apartments, and at that time didn't have anywhere to go), then moved to Florida to his dad's house. A few months later, she came back pregnant, but did in fact graduate with her class. The father of the child commited suicide a couple years later. Now she's unattractively overweight, has two kids and an absent husband who lives with his girlfriend (and doesn't have the money to divorce), a disgustingly messy rented house that keeps getting the utilities shut off.... all in all, not the life she wanted.



Yah.. I'd love for Shannon to see -that-, but she already has an older half-sister who is just as much a "loser".
 
While we didn't have those exact problems with our daughter, who is now 19, we did have our fair share of problems with her. The hardest thing we ever did was to kick her out. It broke our hearts and I wasn't sure that I was going to be strong enough to make it lthrough. We only allowed her to take what she could fit into a suit case. She was so sure that life was going to be a breeze living with her then boyfriend and other friends. While she was gone we packed up everything in her room and put it in storage. When she finally had to admit that she couldn't make it on her own and wanted to come back home, she had to earn back what was in storage. We set up a contract with her, if she did certain things then she earned her stuff back a little at a time. It was never easy and it certainly didn't cause any huge changes overnight, but things were better.



She's now 19, lives on her own and supports herself...for the most part. She has told us several times how much she learned that summer.



I will also recommend a book to everyone, don't laugh but it was really helpful and I really wished that I would have had it when my daughter was about 12. It's called "Closing the Gap" by Jay McGraw...yes...that's Dr. Phil's son. If your're not a fan of Dr. Phil, don't be quick to condem the book before you give it a chance just...it really is a good book and an easy read.
 
hi michelle again. you mentioned your daughters room. well your not alone my daughters room looks like a bombs hit it. she buys new clothes and they just end up on the floor. new clothes.. when she bring new clothes home and shows me, i ask her what new clothes to throw on the floor like the other clothes. and she even brought friends over and take them into her room one day. and i ask them is your room as messy as her room? and they look around and say heck you can see her floor. and i said your kidding me and they say nope. so i guess its a teenager thing.. but one day i am going to go in there and put all her clothes in a box and when she asks what happen to her clothes im going to tell her well i figure you dont want them anymore cause there on the floor, so i took them to the goodwell. and see what she says.. but i will really put them in the back of my sporttrac and drive around with them for a few weeks. to see what she will do.. cause its really a mess.. so your not alone in this. so i guess it's good luck to all of us of parents with teenagers. so good luck .. hope everything works out.. bye from paulette..
 
Here is what I would do:



While the girl is away at school, take a day off from work and TOTALLY, and I meant TOTALLY take EVERYTHING out of her room. Put it in storage, in the garage, wherever, but box it up and empty the room.



Then, set her up with an night stand, an alarm clock, a cot and a suitcase for her clothes and put that in her room, or better yet, in the living room or a hallway or SOME OTHER public area.



A child's room and their possessions are all privileges they get; and they can be taken away. For whatever reason she probably thinks that room is hers. It isn't.



I am OLD SCHOOL when it comes to this kind of thing, and I have thrown away $200 game systems to make my point with our boys before.



Kids can get the message IF you are willing to send it.



As for emancipation; that's what the suitecase is for. If she doesn't want to live in your boyfriends house under his rules, than it's the foster care system for one more year, then she can do what she wants at 18.



TJR
 
Sunday I looked at Shannon's room - you can now see the floor, but she still has clothes piled up in the closet. She has no clothes hanging from the clothes rod. My boyfriend said that she has -never- hung her clothes up. That's just.. weird. Her room is just depressing. I could never allow myself to live like that.



The counselor from the juvenille center came out Monday to talk to him and his daughters. The counselor told them that they had a very nice place to live, and they should take care of it. Shannon insisted that since she is an honor roll student, that she shouldn't have to do as much around the house. The counselor made a "chore list" for the both of them. He said Shannon lost it during the visit - started crying, and was acting irrational. She insisted that she pays for "everything herself", whereas her "peers" didn't have to. When asked who pays for her car insurance, school necessities, vehicle repairs, etc etc., she had to admit that her dad did. He does most of the maintenance/cleaning around the house - they only need to keep their rooms clean, do their laundry, and clean up after themselves.



And since she has admitted to smoking pot recently, he's taken her car away from her completely until she can pass a piss test. She got upset because then she'd need a ride to school. She doesn't want to ride the bus because "losers ride the bus". So.. he told me he may be driving her to school. (Don't losers get driven to school by their parents, too?)



The counselor didn't think that any of the punishments or expectations of both of his daughters were out of line.



She wants to pursue a career in politics, and attend Yale. She seems more interested in the notoriety of being in politics than the opportunity to make a difference.



It's unbelievable to me just how much this girl thinks is "owed to her". She's not the only honor roll student in existence... I just wonder how spoiled her "peers" really are. Maybe she's a sign of the new day and age that we didn't experience when we were kids.
 
What you're talking about Michelle is what has come to be called a "sense of entitlement" by modern pundits. It's common not only in teens, but also in the workplace, and even in governments. A sad state of affairs, indeed...
 

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