Petition to Boycott Video Game "25 To Life"

[Thomas Rogers]

Q said:

Don't care, this is what parents are for, and if parents don't raise their own children, they are lost, regardless...

So there should be no controls, safeguards or special interests lobbying to protect children; and instead, every parent should quit their jobs and follow their children around 24x7, looking over their shoulder and protecting them?



For that matter there should be no ratings systems either. It's a parents job, right?



As a parent that WORKS hard, and also works hard to raise my children right, I welcome the organizations, standards and safeguards that have my back, and get more than a little irked at people that imply the use of such organizations and standards somehow implies bad or lazy parenting.



TJR

 

[Jeff C]

TJR, there shouldn't be a ratings system. The only reason there is and the reason it's being enforced is because of lawyers. Some guy can convince 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty that a video game and real life are so synonymous that they can influence each other. I play racing games, but I don't drive my ST like it's a Ferrari, Lambo, or the like.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Jeff C, having played video games my whole life (I am 40), and having taken part in several other forms of entertainment that has been considered by many to indicate the downfall of civilization (D&D for example), I understand where you are coming from and I understand your argument.



I am familiar with both sides of the debate on video game violence.



And, frankly, that's not the debate I am having.



My debate has to do with "good taste" and "respect for authority". I don't think a game that sensationalizes the killing of police officers is in good taste, and I do feel that it could continue to erode our civilization's "respect for authority" (a HUGE problem the past 20 years, IMHO). It's just not something I see passing as good, healthy entertainment.



Those are the reasons I think the game is not worth the CD it's printed on.



TJR

 

[Fer Echegaray]

TJR, you're going a bit to the extreme, what I'm saying is that if the ratings are there, you as a parent should be aware of what your children play with.



Or would you just let your children access any chat room on the web expecting that since they "banned" pedophiles they won't show up?



Do not follow the 24x7, make sure that they know the game is fantasy, teach them values and awareness that the world outside is not a happy safe place

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fer says:

Or would you just let your children access any chat room on the web expecting that since they "banned" pedophiles they won't show up?

Nope, I wouldn't.



But at the same time, if there were a chatroom dedicated to the discussion of explicit fantasies about killing cops (or murdering babies, or raping women), then I would lobby to have them closed down.



Some things just don't have a place in our society; free speech isn't free.



My point is that people can't criticize parents for being BAD parents when they lobby to get stuff like this closed down; they are doing what they think is right to protect their kids and others.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Q says:

They're like teflon, nothing evil will stick to them.

Teflon causes cancer.



Seriously though, I do everything you say, and my wife just recently started back working PT after 12 years off raising young kids; so by your definition I am are great parent. Our kids are well adjusted. We FAR from shelter them and discuss the differences between what they see on TV, films and in games vs "the real life" often.



We also choose to participate in boycotts like this. It doesn't make us LESSER parents because of it. To assume so would be just that, an ASSUMPTION followed by a CHARACTERIZATION, which is another way of staying stereotyping. And stereotyping is the little brother of bigotry.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Please read my last post...I am DOING all those things. Why would you ASSUME I am not?



Just because there are certain things that I think should not be entertainment for MY kids, or anyone elses kids, or even adults at any age doesn't mean I am NOT being a good parent.



Q you also say: "BTW, great job with the kids TJR!"



Is that sarcastic?



TJR

 

[Fer Echegaray]

But if that chat room had a warning saying that only adults are allowed (compared to the R rating) and you knew it, you would not let them in.

So if there's an R rated game, shouldn't the parents know better and keep their children from playing it?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fer says:

But if that chat room had a warning saying that only adults are allowed (compared to the R rating) and you knew it, you would not let them in.

So if there's an R rated game, shouldn't the parents know better and keep their children from playing it?

I would keep my kids from going in, and of course, I have already done the proper job parenting so that my kids would know not to go in, or if they did, for whatever reason, not to be lured into some bad behavior and would be able to tell fantasy from reality.



However, that isn't my point.



My point is that there are certain forms of expression and activities meant for entertainment that should not be allowed in a society. I am SURE that you, Q and others can agree with that. In other words, there is a line. For example, "Cock fighting"...is it fun sports betting or cruel...I guess it all depends on your POV and up-bringing.



The problem is, that line is different for everyone.



I see this game as across the line.



You don't, fine, I respect that.



But it doesn't make me a bad parent that I do.



TJR

 

[Fer Echegaray]

I <b>NEVER</b> said you were a bad parent. What I'm trying to say is that parents, in general, should not just rely on others to keep their children safe, not only from evil, but from bad influences.

If a rating is there, parents, in general, should teach their children to differentiate.

 

[walter clark]

I am an advid gamer but your justifactions are lame excuses for being quiet lambs as others create and sell this stuff. Some of you guys must be part time lawers "If the glove dosent fit". Lets talk about being good people and knowing deep down inside that stuff like this serves no good purpose at all. There are a million excuses for not signing up and only one for speaking up and taking a stand.... It's the right thing to do. But we all know that sometimes more often than not in todays socitey that doing the right thing isnt allways popular.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Okay, Fer, Q, thanks for clearing that up. I am VERY touchy on this situation. As a parent that DOES do a good, responsible job raising three children AND take an active part in lobbying for more appropriate content I am often accused of being a lazy parent.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Good point Q. I lobby and fight against a lot...this particular item was 15 secs out of my time to sign an e-petition; and a few minutes on this board defending a person's right to do so and not be accused of being a bad parent in the process. There will be other fights and causes...there always are.

 

[Travis Munday]

I won't sign the petition.



Where do we draw the line? Do we ban street racing games that allow you to run from the police and disobey traffic laws?



What about The Sims where you can mistreat and deprive 'people' of basic needs?



We need video games that allow us an outlet. If we keep all the crap we have to put up with inside, bad things happen. Some will choose to race around open streets from the cops and smashing into peds; some will starve their virtual self; others will choose to go on a rampage and kill everything that moves--be it alien, human, cyborg, whatever. It's an alternate reality where we can enjoy, guilt and punishment free, the things we're not supposed to.

 

[Bob McDonald]

Kevin,

Boy, you are really on a roll here. LOL



Two posts you started have turned into interesting? discussions. I wonder what the post counts will turn out to be for this one?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

So where is your line, Tiger?



That's a serious question.



Can you give me an example of any scenario/content in a video game that you would think is "over the line?"

 

[Fer Echegaray]

Sorry to burst your bubble Walter, I am no lawyer, I do not trust lawyers and I think that abusive lawyers have created an insane environment with all those non-sense (to me) lawsuits.



And the right thing in a lot of cases depends on your point of view.

Some things I believe are absolute values, but many many others are subject to your own personal beliefs.



Being good people may also have differen intrepretations, don't you think?

There are so many stereotypes we surrender to...

 

[Jeff C]

There is no line in video games; the key word in "virtual reality" is virtual.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

9-11 the game...you be the terrorists, you slice people's throats with box cutters, you pilot the planes into the twin towers....it's all virtual and it's all GOOD

 

[Jeff C]

Correct Q. I support law enforcement, and every day I'm grateful for the protection provided by everyone who wears a uniform. There's also something else they're protecting called the Constitution. Gotta love that 1st amendment...



Like I said, I wouldn't pay for this game, but if someone had it, I'd probably play for a bit.





TJR, I'm willing to bet that game would sell. There's another game for Xbox, called "Air Force Delta Storm" which was recalled after 9/11. The game lets you fly fighter jets and blow up enemy ships and planes. Unfortunately, you can also kamakaze into buildings and what not, so the game was recalled and the feature removed. I have the original, which I paid a little extra for on eBay, but I don't fly into buildings.