OT: Fair Tax, VAT, Sales tax?

[Fer Echegaray]

I don't know if this is a repost:

Some conservatives have called for something similar -- the so-called Fair Tax -- that would replace the federal income tax system with a national retail sales tax.



But critics of the VAT say it would almost certainly not be implemented as a replacement for the income tax system -- rather, it would be just another tax, on top of the income tax, the state sales tax and everything else.

 

[Kevin Lang]

Whoa, Value Added Tax and Fair Tax are 100% different.



VAT sux. I'm not Canadian so I have no perceived sense of justification for it, but each time I go up and get a bill & see the "VAT" expense, I have to repress a cry of WTF.



Though that anecdote shows that a federal sales tax is more effective than the current taxes as tourists and illegals would be forced to pay them.



Though any sort of Federal Sales tax would HAVE to replace income tax, which is unconstitutional anyhow. Though it also couldn't touch gasoline--it is expensive enough, and that would give obama a way to artificially inflate gas prices to dictate consumer choice to econoboxes, a la Europe (though BO declares that he has no intar-est in taxing gasoline..)



If the tax is VA and/or on top of normal income tax, I would hope that the American people would finally kick the tax-crazy representatives and executive branch the F out, for good.



Ah can't afford to be doubly taxed.



From what I know of Fair Tax, it sounds fun. Fair Tax FTW...at least it would be more constitutional than current income tax.

 

[Wes Davis]

I heard quite a bit about this on Sirius news today. It does sound interesting with some promise but then I am no economy guru. Some good points were made for a national sales tax.

 

[Bud Williams]

Please get the Fair Tax books by Neal Boortz and John Linder.

Also go to http://www.fairtax.org



The Fair tax is designed to be enacted after the 16th amendmend is repealed,

I think 16th, so as not to create another tax without getting rid of the current tax code.



The VAT, or value added Tax is really horrible, not sure how that got "Value" into the name. it creates tax upon tax upon tax on all consumer goods. briefly how I understand it to work is like this,

You have a company that builds say a computer, every part bit and piece and subassembly

gets taxed along the way during the assembly process, so there would be separate tax on internal compoenents such as hard drive, motherboard, case, video card etc etc etc,

So when the computer is fully assembled and put on the shelf for sale, there would be an exponentially series of taxes which will of course get passed on to the consumer.



The Fair Tax is the only way to make a fair system for rich, poor and middle class.



Now is the time to act!

 

[JerryW Gilliland]

I've already written my state and national representatives about the VAT and Cap and Trade.



Have you????????????



They're going to suck us dry!! :angry:

 

[Mark K 2]

Sit back. Relax. Have a beer. It's not the end of the world.

 

[OLE442]

Talk is that since there is more money needed for our CHANGE, a national sales tax will be in our future. Cigarette tax, sugered pop tax and any other taxes they can squeeze out of us!! LOL



I like a straight tax over the fair tax. EVERYONE pays the same amount...poor folk and well to do folks! No need for 75% of the IRS! What could be more fair?? Just an old man's opinion...



'07 ST:blink:

 

[Nelson Atwell]

VAT in Poland is 22% on almost everything, 7% on things like food, and 0% on essentials like medicine and school books. Fuel has an additional 28% excise tax. England is worse, with taxes on TV each year to pay for operation of BBC. They need the money to maintain the moats of their politicians apparently.



This is pretty much the case throughout Europe. We would have a second Boston Tea Party if this happened in America.

 

[Kevin Lang]

I like a straight tax over the fair tax.

I'll take a straight tax over a gay tax, but I digress



A straight tax is lame, the "gentry", us "rich folk" with our "luxury goods" (tracs) will still be paying a large portion of taxes...so that welfare money can go to the inner city drug dealers with escalades on 28" rims with tvs in each seat....but this time I secant.



Straight tax=percentage of income.



10% of 60k = 6,000k

10% of 6k = 600 bucks



BIG difference.



Oh, and most importantly, illegal immigrants will pay nothing.



Fair Tax--everyone pays the same tax per product. People can live under the radar for taxes, but it's far harder to evade buying something!



Illegal immigrants are what, 2/3rds the populace of texas (or is it now tay-has?), and my state of MD ranks up there....If I was to be that 1/3rd which would be paying the taxes without a fair tax (oh wait, I am), I would vehemently advocate a reform...like fair tax. I don't see a reason not to.



**Repealing the UNCONSTITUTIONAL 16th amendment makes 100% of the IRS done and gone.



<HR>



@ Nelson: Europe considers medicine and school books to be essentials, but not food? Bassackwards anyone? I thought everyone had national healthcare over(ew) there, so that you didn't have to actually buy medicine?

 

[Tom Schindler]

Fair Tax--everyone pays the same tax per product. People can live under the radar for taxes, but it's far harder to evade buying something!

Actually, since the fair tax is fair, the flat tax isn't.



The fair tax is based off of the poverty level. EVERYONE that is a citizan would get a prebate check once a month to cover basic living expenses. So, lets say poverty level is 10K/year. For you and I, and everyone else, we would get a check in the amount of about $166.00. (Based on a 20% fair tax)



You would pay tax on food. You would pay taxes on clothing, new automobiles, etc.



Illegal? No problem. You pay the tax when you purchase food. You pay the taxes when you buy clothing. You get NO PREBATE CHECK. Yup, you pay taxes and you get nothing.



No more corporate taxes. No more income taxes. Income tax is based on communism.



Anyone that advocates a flat tax over a fair tax has not read the book nor do they understand what fair means.



If anyone thinks the government will actually enact it should be subjected to a drug test. The government will not get rid of the power they have with the IRS. A letter from the IRS scares the hell out of you. That is a powerful tool the government has on us.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

The government will not get rid of the power they have with the IRS.

Yep--the IRS can search all you own, without true cause or warrant if they suspect you of tax evasion.



Funny how ALL the monuments in DC are vehemently against the crap that our government is doing, which are a great deal of them, are the non visited ones.



Theodore Roosevelt island is seldom visited, and falling into disrepair.



The FDR massive socialist monument is constantly visited, and so many little kids pull FDR's outstretched finger and ride his dog that the green color from the oxidation has been removed; they gleam!



Socialism gets buffed by visitors, while the principles of American government fall. Well, lenin was preserved for the entire reign of communism in Mother Russia....



The Taft memorial, right next to the Capitol, has no visitors. The jap war monument (hilarious though it is), gets visitors up the wazoo, and it is in close proximity.



People take withholdings as a cost of life and just go with it, they don't think to challenge the taxes and FICA and Medicare deductions...and they don't bother to see that our founders and many who came after them did think to challenge these vile institutions. Ignorance sucks.



(btw I haven't read the book--with all my deductions and government double-dipping I don't have the money to buy an escape to a pipe-dream where I get to keep my money...a dream that was supposed to be America)

 

[Wes Davis]

I am very confused! Which tax is it that everyone pays a set amount of tax on every purchase or service? Be it a loaf of bread or a session with a psychiatrist. I heard this tax could pay for national healthcare and could possibly eliminate IRS tax. This is the tax I think has merit. I liked the idea also that all drug dealers and illegals or anyone in a position to avoid taxes will have to pay this sales tax. The news show I heard on the radio listed several countries and their national tax amounts. The highest national tax quoted was 25% but I forget the country. One question, would this tax eliminate state sales tax or be additional to your individual state sales tax?

 

[P M]

The Fair Tax is the one where you pay on each item you buy in lieu of income taxes. I REALLY think it's the way to go. However...do i think it will happen, no. I can't see politicians (all of them) giving up the manipulative tool that the IRS and income taxes have become. Take the time to read the Fair Tax book. It's a quick read, easy to understand the process. I would like to read more on how a transition would occur, but other than that, I'm sold on the idea.

 

[Tom Schindler]

One question, would this tax eliminate state sales tax or be additional to your individual state sales tax?

The individual state would still have to generate revenue.



The price of the things you buy would go down since corporate taxes is not paid by corporations, but by the end consumer. At the same time, we would be paying a little more than we are paying now for the goods we buy.



i.e. A $20,000 car would cost about $17,000 after corporate taxes are aboloshed. Then you add a fair tax to that $17,000 of 23% tax would cost $20,910.



Before you get upset at the prospect that stuff is gonna cost more, don't forget, if you make $20.00/hr, your bring home pay will be $800.00/week because income taxes are gone.





Tom.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

The price of the things you buy would go down since corporate taxes is not paid by corporations, but by the end consumer.

Caymen, I think you misspoke or missed a couple of words.



You've said time and time again that corporations will take whatever they can get if left unchecked. So, if corporate taxes simply disappeared why would expect corporations would reduce the price of their goods? Wouldn't they simply want to take on more profits?



If you replaced "would" above with "could potentially" then you are true to form.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

So, if corporate taxes simply disappeared why would expect corporations would reduce the price of their goods?

They would have no choice. Prices would stay high, at first. When businesses see the excesss money people have, they will bring the prices down to grab some of that money.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



So you are a believer in the fair, open market and letting the market define the price for goods and services sold, and for the costs paid when producing them...for most things anyway.



TJR

 

[P M]

In order to remain competitive they would have to reduce prices. No change there, just less overhead for the companies enabling them to be more competitive in a global market. (also incentive for manufacturers to base here vice going overseas).



Lets see, I can pay more *(<23%) for new items I purchase, but in exchange I get to keep 30+% percent of all of my income and get money to cover basic necessities. And, no more government power grabbing, manipulative, vote buying tool of income taxes. What's not to like?



*Note: actual base prices would go down due to reduced overhead so it would not actually be 23% more expensive than today.

 

[Tom Schindler]

So you are a believer in the fair, open market and letting the market define the price for goods and services sold, and for the costs paid when producing them...for most things anyway.

Of course. The system is set up to give imports an unfair advantage in our market. We cter to those without a vested intrest and spit in the face to those that do.





Tom

 

[TrainTrac]

The FairTax is the best option. It also eliminates all paycheck withholdings, so you take home your entire paycheck. More info on the FairTax plan, from the FairTax.org website:

What is the FairTax plan?



The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.



The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.



The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.



The FairTax:



* Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks

* Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions

* Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities

* Allows American products to compete fairly

* Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy

* Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding

* Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation

* Abolishes the IRS

Buy the books, or just do more research on the web site. All the information's there. Then, call your elected representatives and tell them to support HR 25 and S 296, the FairTax act.



A VAT or national sales tax on top of income taxes would destroy the American economy.:angry: