Off topic: some "in law" advice needed

[2]

As many of you may or may not know my girlfriend of 6 years was killed in December crossing the road. She had told me that she wanted to be cremated and have her ashes spread. I told her family this when she died and everyone was fine with it. We are waiting till the snow melts so we can spread them in the mountains. Now the issue. Her mother now wants to take some of the ashes and bury them in a graveyard in town here. This really bothers me because my girlfriend hated this town and hated graveyards, she would not have wanted this at all. Her sister and her brother both side with me. The dad doesn't seem to be picking a side. I have a meeting with them all this weekend. How do I handle this. Or am I in the wrong with my thinking of respecting the dead ones wishes and she would just worry about the living? Any thoughts or advice? Thank in advance.

 

[Bob McDonald]

I think it will depend on how you feel the vibes from her father. If you feel he will eventually side with you and her siblings, then stand firm. Also, how does her mother define 'Some'? If it can be only a token amount, then maybe a little compassion for the mother is warranted. After all, your girlfriend's soul wont be with the ashes anyway.



Does her mother even know how she felt towards the town and graveyards? Maybe if she knew, she would be a little more understanding of her wishes.



Good luck with your meeting.

 

[2]

She knows, we told her. She wants to do it for herself because "she is the mother and can do what she wants".

 

[Casey B]

I think you just need to reinstate her wishes. If you know how she felt about something don't hold it back. They need to know. Your not trying to satisfy the family, your trying to fulfill wishes.

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

Man, dude, that's tough. I would stand firm since it was the daughter's wish. I understand that the mother wants a "place" to go to "be" with her, but I still believe you carry the person's wishes that past on. If the mother wants something, put the urn into a plot, but honor the person's memory by following thier wishes which is to spred them. Especially because of the way she felt about cemetaries.



As already stated, good luck with the meeting.

 

[Gypsy me]

I dunno,... all of you loved her....but the lady IS her mother, nothing harder on a parent than losing their child. Her mother may be needing to have a sense of closeness to her daughter.



Why not talk to her dad, just you and him, if you feel comfortable doing that, and see what he thinks and feels. Tell him how you are feeling and why.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Olaf,



I think your girlfriends mom is trying to strike a compromise. Think of it from her POV, she wants a part of her daughter at the cemetery so she can go and visit and be close to her.



I think that since her mom has asked for "some", it is a reasonable request.



Honoring the dead is important. At the same time, so are the rituals that the living take comfort in. Her mom is trying to have such a ritual.



If your girlfriend loved her mom and would want her to be happy, I am sure she wouldn't mind this little alteration in her wishes.



I suggest you provide her mom with a modest amount of ashes in an urn that she gets to choose and encourage and be a part of that ceremony. At the same time, encourage the whole family to be a part of the ash spreading in the mountains.



Lastly, when it comes to opinions on this matter, for what it's worth, I don't see the value in deciding what the "sides" should be and who is on which side, because (and this is going to sound cold, but here it is), mom trumps boyfriend hands down. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say there and not take offense, because none is meant.



TJR

 

[Ron N]

Olaf, I have been thru this with my family as well. Not as far as you,But it was my Grandmother. I can tell you something. Her father although he may have wanted to go with his daughters feelings will not go against his wife's feelings, after all she is the woman that gave his daughter to him. The one thing I am guessing is that she would not want the family to have to take sides and fight over this. In not knowing her or you, I would guess that she wanted this, to save her family from the decisions they have to make at this time. If she loved her family"all of them" and only you would know her true feelings, or she wouldn't have left you with this responsiblilty of knowing, then she would want them to remember her life and not her death._Ron A quote from unknown "You may want to live your own life,but in death you are shared by all that loved you."

 

[Chris Kulbaba]

Why did she hate calgary? I f*^kin love this city!

 

[2]

XST, we are country folk stuck in this city. Not a fan of how big it has gotten in the last couple of years.



As for how the girlfriend would have felt about the situation, she always hated how her mom always got her way with things like this. I had a brief chat with the dad about this when it first came up and he said it was the moms choice if she wanted to or not.



TJR - The plan was for everyone is coming along to spread the ashes in the mountains, it is an area that is a simple hike to get to, so I figure people could go there later if they want to remember. Only about an hour out of town.



At this point I will just state my feelings and my girlfriends feelings on the situation and tell her that she can place the urn in the cemetery after the ashes are spread, I have no problem with that. Whatever happens after that happens.

 

[CountyMounty]

How firm is mom going to be on this. Hopefully not to the point of a legal battle such as is going on with Anna Nicole right now. If it got to that point that would not be good as it is very possible that the mom could win out unless there is a lot to support your girfriend's wishes something other than just words. I think allowing a small amount of the ashes to be buried with the urn would be a good compromise, we just did a similar thing with my grandfather although we had no idea what he wished we felt that he would like his ashes spread over the water where he always fished but we also knew that there had to be a gravesite to visit as well. This is a decision you must make and none of us can know all of that is involved here and all your feelings.

 

[Ron N]

Olaf, as I said only you knew how she felt. If that is the case " she said that she was tired of her mom getting her way" Then stand tall and proud!

 

[Bob McDonald]

Of course, if your girl had something in writing, or maybe a will that specified her preferences, there wouldn't be this problem. But I suspect that there is no will. Unless you had some legal 'common-law' status between yourself and your late girlfriend, you may not have enough legal standing to pre-empt her parent's wishes. (plus I have no clue about any Canadian common-law statutes or practices.)

 

[Rick Kent]

One question would be, how much do you plan on interacting with the family once this is done?



It sounds like you are conceding to the mother's wish but still honoring the spirit of your girlfriends wish and that seems to be a good compromise, especially if you are also close to the father, brother/sisters, etc.



I do not see any good coming out of pitting the family against one another if it can be done that everyone gets (predominantly) what they want.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

I agree with TJR. As a fiancee, you really don't have any official say in this matter anyway. I know it hurts, but the mom has every right to do what she wants with the ashes as long as the dad doesn't object. I think your fiancee has a pretty nice family, because a lot of families wouldn't even listen to the opinion of a non-family member.

 

[Jose Santana]

Olaf not to be a jerk but TJR is right moms do trump boyfreinds, ..... Olaf I too thiink you can compromise... What's a little ash for the mothers sake? Remember this girl was raised by her family long before you were there and if they truely loved her than compromising is the only way. You gain nothing by playing hardball and the situation will only get worse.. Maybe she never discussed the issue of death with her mom so as far as mom is concerned it's your word alone they have to live by and that may not be enough for her. If the discussion came up with her mom maybe she would have told mom she would love to have some ashes with her, but who knows...

Compromise man it will go a long way...



Joseymack

 

[Johnny O]

What's a little ash for the mothers sake?

Agreed.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Good luck with your decision Olaf.



One other thing to think about for whomever might be in this situation one day (most of us will at one time or another) is that our after-death rituals, those that happen soon after death like a funeral, and those that go on for years, like visiting a cemetery, have very little whatsoever to do with the dead. Sure, we like to use words like "honor them", and such, but the reality is that regardless your religious believes, we all should be able to see that these practices are for the living, to help the living get through the loss and to remember. Through that remembering comes the best honoring we can ever give.



I am close friends with a funeral director and he said, and I quote: "Funerals aren't for the dead, they are for the living."...the same thought should extend to final interment.



I had a grandmother that died and before she died she said "I don't want a viewing because a bunch of people that were too busy to come and see me when I was sick will want to come and look at me when I am dead." Her oldest son, my uncle, honored that to the "T", and didn't have a viewing, not even for the family. It created a huge, huge rift in our family. I understood his need to honor her by following her wishes...but where those really her wishes...that the family not get a viewing? There's no way of ever knowing for sure.



It's best, IMHO, when there are conflicts in arrangements like this that could reasonably go either way to side in favor of the wishes of the living, because ultimately its all for them and to help them remember and to deal.



TJR

 

[2]

Yup, no will, people don't really think you need one at the age we were at. She turned 25 during her brief coma. I realize I have no legal grounds what-so-ever, I already learned that with all the settlement and executor stuff, not that I would want to go that route anyway.



Well, just to show I am not the only one thinking like this, here is a quote from her sisters Email that I got last night.

I dont really want to design the headstone, as I dont imagine I will ever go to it. I think its all ridiculous that the only reason there is going to be one, is because mom wants it. Kim would be so mad about all this. Everything was always moms way, right now....and once again, Kim cant even get her one last wish!!

Once again, I have less of a problem with the headstone, a plot and the empty urn being placed in it. I will just state my thoughts on the ashes and what-ever happens happens. I am pretty sure the siblings will be the ones putting up the fight at this point.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

Olaf, I sympathize with you on this. I agree with the above on the issue that her mother has a legal right to say what she wants in this case because you were not married. Suggest to your "would have been" mother-in-law to not put part of the ashes in the graveyard, but in her home. Tell her mother that her daughter spirit does not reside in her ashes, but in her daughters spirit that resides in the Heart. I am a firm believer in compromise.



This is so similar to the Terry Shivo case and the most recent Anna Nichole-Smith case. I urge everyone here who does not have a Living Trust, with your wishes spelled out exactly, to do so ASAP whether you are married or not. A Living Trust will avoid probate, and all of you assets go in it.