Les
Well-Known Member
Another saying during that time, "Kill them all, let God sort them out."
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Another saying during that time, "Kill them all, let God sort them out."
Is that true? Could that be because of how thier tax system is more of a fair tax than a income tax? (Income tax's are part of the Communist Manefesto)
While we see that something costs more in the store in Europe, in the end it may actually be cheaper than what we pay.
Tom
Les
Well-Known Member
It's not about the taxes, the cost of goods and services just cost more in Europe, than here. For example, a simple lunch (soup & salad) will cost you approximately 15 to 20 Euros (about $30). That same lunch here can be had for about $8 to $12.
I spent three months in Germany. My Mother is from Germany and I have family still living in Germany.
I always felt food and drinks are much cheaper than the US where the cost of goods were slightly higher with many "American goods" (Levi's jeans, American Branded clothing) was much more expensive.
Keep in mind also, tipping in restraunts is not required because the tip is already included in the price.
Alcohol is significantly cheaper in Germany than the USA. A bottle of liquor in Germany would be $13.00 where here it sells for $35.00. If we then add up what we are paying out for medical benefits, we can see that while stuff may cost more in Germany, the lower prices we are paying is being spent on other things.
You can not compare apples to apples when you say "our buying power". That just isn't true. We pay for things they don't. At the same time, they pay for things we don't.
Tom
I always felt food and drinks are much cheaper than the US where the cost of goods were slightly higher with many "American goods" (Levi's jeans, American Branded clothing) was much more expensive.
Keep in mind also, tipping in restraunts is not required because the tip is already included in the price.
Alcohol is significantly cheaper in Germany than the USA. A bottle of liquor in Germany would be $13.00 where here it sells for $35.00. If we then add up what we are paying out for medical benefits, we can see that while stuff may cost more in Germany, the lower prices we are paying is being spent on other things.
You can not compare apples to apples when you say "our buying power". That just isn't true. We pay for things they don't. At the same time, they pay for things we don't.
Tom
Les
Well-Known Member
You are the expert...
Les,
I am only speaking from experiance. Nothing more than that. Have you ever been to Germany? Have studied Europeon economics? (I haven't)
I am not trying to be a know-it-all, but I can only compare what I seen with my own eyes and not base it off of "This is the way it is" propaganda.
Tom
I am only speaking from experiance. Nothing more than that. Have you ever been to Germany? Have studied Europeon economics? (I haven't)
I am not trying to be a know-it-all, but I can only compare what I seen with my own eyes and not base it off of "This is the way it is" propaganda.
Tom
Les
Well-Known Member
No, but I was in France, Italy, Greece, Turkey & Spain several months ago.
Great. Tell me more.
Tom
Tom
Les
Well-Known Member
Just noting that here in the U.S. you will get more goods and services for your money than you will in Europe. People here complain all the time, but let them live in a foreign country for a while, and they will realize that life here is pretty damn good.
I will agree with that statement. IMO, people that complain are not saying it is bad, they are saying it could be better. If there are better ways to do things, why don't we do it?
Tom
Les
Well-Known Member
I think most people are lazy and are waiting for someone to fix it for them...
Michael Cacioppo
Well-Known Member
In my opinion this is STILL the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH....but if we are not careful we will go the way of Rome. Here are the issues I see as problems. The religious right would have you conform to their beliefs via legislation, Anti-Abortion, etc. Having said that this was form as a Country Under GOD, so their lies some of our heritage. GOD beiung used as a generic GOD and not one from a particular religion. On the other side the extreme left would have you believe that all of that is BS and heritage be damned we need not have any moral conscience. Extreme in my opinion but just as extreme as forcing creationalism and Divide guidance.
We are strong because we were a melting pot with new comers blending into society. Learning the common language and following the established rules. Now we cater to everone's ethnic background and don't rquire a common language....the start of the fall. The new people coming are not immigrating on the whole...they are colonizing. Trying to changethe common culture to theirs. I'm not saying you should abandon your ethnic background, but America should come first.
Up until FDR's social give awaysm people were responsible for their own well being. People took care of their aging family members and didn't expect the government to do it for them. Noone feels that they are responsible for their own actions or well being. Give me, give me give me. If something bad happens its someone elses fault.
Capitalism works because of man's natural nature to succeed and do better. If a poor person can have all that a rich person has as far a basic needs, why work. Many in America are "retired "at 17.
We all know the costs to are wallets and common culture caused be illegals entering this country. At one time they were referred to as "illegal aliens", but now they are "undocumented" aliens. That's like saying a burgular is not a "thief" but an "univited house guest". Let's get real. We cater so as to not be politically incorrect. Want a drivers license photo ID picture with you cultual burker (sp?) hiding your face..why not. Then why the hell is it a photo ID?
I could rant and rave for ever,,but let me summerize.. We need anational language, control over who is in our country, make people responsible for their actions and not allow religious zealots to runthe show. We are a great nation with faults, but still a great nation. We need new leaders in the House, Senate and Oval Office. People who are no elite multi-millionairs, but people that can add to the solution and not to the problem. IMHO
We are strong because we were a melting pot with new comers blending into society. Learning the common language and following the established rules. Now we cater to everone's ethnic background and don't rquire a common language....the start of the fall. The new people coming are not immigrating on the whole...they are colonizing. Trying to changethe common culture to theirs. I'm not saying you should abandon your ethnic background, but America should come first.
Up until FDR's social give awaysm people were responsible for their own well being. People took care of their aging family members and didn't expect the government to do it for them. Noone feels that they are responsible for their own actions or well being. Give me, give me give me. If something bad happens its someone elses fault.
Capitalism works because of man's natural nature to succeed and do better. If a poor person can have all that a rich person has as far a basic needs, why work. Many in America are "retired "at 17.
We all know the costs to are wallets and common culture caused be illegals entering this country. At one time they were referred to as "illegal aliens", but now they are "undocumented" aliens. That's like saying a burgular is not a "thief" but an "univited house guest". Let's get real. We cater so as to not be politically incorrect. Want a drivers license photo ID picture with you cultual burker (sp?) hiding your face..why not. Then why the hell is it a photo ID?
I could rant and rave for ever,,but let me summerize.. We need anational language, control over who is in our country, make people responsible for their actions and not allow religious zealots to runthe show. We are a great nation with faults, but still a great nation. We need new leaders in the House, Senate and Oval Office. People who are no elite multi-millionairs, but people that can add to the solution and not to the problem. IMHO
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I want six weeks of vacation a year and 4-day work weeks!
Jeremy Gilmore
Member
OK guys I need to step into this again. Has anyone ever talked to an Iraqi since we removed Saddam? If you haven't, then how can you say if the Iraqi people are happy or not? I have been over there a couple of times. I can tell you how they feel. They are happy that we got that SOB. So unless you have been there and talked with them, shut the hell up. Keep your narrow minded opinions to yourself.
I lived in Europe for 8.5 years over a period of about 15 years. Nearly all the prices in Europe have gone up in the past 20 years, but prices tended to alway be a bit more expensive in most European contries. Yes, there are many bargins to be had in Europe if you know where to go and exactly what to buy, but you must get away from the tourist traps. Most of their higher prices are because of their high taxes (VAT) on almost everything (very low or no income taxes).
Most of the prices in Europe vary by the exchange rate. Since most countries in Europe are now on the Euro, they don't see any exchange rate fluctuations when going from country to country. So the price we see in Europe and for products improted from Europe are based on the Euro to Dollar exchange rate.
Since the exchange rate for the Dollar goes up and down, so do the prices. Because they are higher now, does not mean they will be the same way 5 years from now.
...Rich
Most of the prices in Europe vary by the exchange rate. Since most countries in Europe are now on the Euro, they don't see any exchange rate fluctuations when going from country to country. So the price we see in Europe and for products improted from Europe are based on the Euro to Dollar exchange rate.
Since the exchange rate for the Dollar goes up and down, so do the prices. Because they are higher now, does not mean they will be the same way 5 years from now.
...Rich
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
This doesn't make you an expert. I can tell you that everything is expensive here in Europe. I am receiving $60,000 extra per year in my pay to compensate for the extra costs of living in Poland, which isn't even one of the expensive countries in Europe. I am in Germany now, and gas is around $10/gal. It is $9/gal in Poland, and over $10/gal in England. Every country seems to have a 20+% tax on almost everything you buy, and then they still have to file annual tax returns, where they will pay more.
If I go downtown to buy a shirt, I expect to pay a minimum of $40 for a shirt I could buy for $10 in Wal-Mart. Regarding tips, that depends on the country. Many countries in Europe don't expect tips, but that is changing, since most waiters/waitresses barely survive off the lousy salaries they earn.
As I have said in earlier threads, the Poles earn about $600/month on average. They can't afford apartments on their own and most unmarried children live at home until they are married. I know some married couples that continue living at home, because they can't afford a place of their own. If a single person does live alone, he is either rich or inherited it from his parents.
I can say that financially, Americans are better off than most Europeans. However, there are some good aspects of the European lifestyle. They generally are in better health, because they walk more and eat less red meat (it is unaffordable to most). They pace of life is also slower, and maybe it is just because I am getting old, but I like things a little slower. I can walk in the city and see the beautiful historic buildings, we we as Americans would have cleared out for parking.
I love America, and I will continue serving in the Air Force as long as they will keep, me, but there are some days I think to myself, that this would be a great place to retire, if I can afford it.
Nelson,
Your experience in Europe is very similar to mine. While food in Germany was very reasonable at most resturants (and also very good) there were other things that were very expensive. I know I earned much more money than most Germans and initially we did not have any Cost of Living allowance..
I too had thought of retiring in Germany. With retirement I would have had full access to the PX, Commissary, and medical facilities. Even after I retired, I saw the US Armed Forces Recreation Center in Garmish, Germany were looking for a computer programmer for their Hotel services there.... The job had similar pay to what I was making here but also had an additional $20K per year COLA (probably much higher by now) I talked it over with my wife and we were both very tempted to jump at the chance, but some family issue here made it a bad time to go.
I think I may be going back to Europe next year to do a little touring. Keep us posted as to the costs and were to find the good bargins.
...Rich
Your experience in Europe is very similar to mine. While food in Germany was very reasonable at most resturants (and also very good) there were other things that were very expensive. I know I earned much more money than most Germans and initially we did not have any Cost of Living allowance..
I too had thought of retiring in Germany. With retirement I would have had full access to the PX, Commissary, and medical facilities. Even after I retired, I saw the US Armed Forces Recreation Center in Garmish, Germany were looking for a computer programmer for their Hotel services there.... The job had similar pay to what I was making here but also had an additional $20K per year COLA (probably much higher by now) I talked it over with my wife and we were both very tempted to jump at the chance, but some family issue here made it a bad time to go.
I think I may be going back to Europe next year to do a little touring. Keep us posted as to the costs and were to find the good bargins.
...Rich
Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
"Talk about more of the same, he is exactly what this country doesn't need anymore, a parasitic government employee just sucking the lifeblood out of all of us, and who can't make reasonable and sound decisions "
Who could this man be?
1. "I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."
Just FYI, John Hagee makes Jeremiah Wright seem like Richard Simmons. Hagee has called the Catholic Church the "Great Whore," an "apostate church," the "Antichrist," and a "false cult system." And let's not even get into what he has said about Jews.
2. This spring, he said troops in Iraq were “down to pre-surge levels†when in fact there were 20,000 more troops than when the surge policy began.
3. "I was concerned about a couple of steps that the Russian government took in the last several days. One was reducing the energy supplies to Czechoslovakia. "
These recent instances of old-person map syndrome weren't the first time the Senator has referred to the country that officially dissolved in 1993, splitting into the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
Its McCain- maybe these gaffes are partly from fatigue, but perhaps he does see the world as it was in his POW era days- he certainly brings that up every time the questions get tough. Shouldn't we have a leader who is at the top of his game?
Who could this man be?
1. "I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."
Just FYI, John Hagee makes Jeremiah Wright seem like Richard Simmons. Hagee has called the Catholic Church the "Great Whore," an "apostate church," the "Antichrist," and a "false cult system." And let's not even get into what he has said about Jews.
2. This spring, he said troops in Iraq were “down to pre-surge levels†when in fact there were 20,000 more troops than when the surge policy began.
3. "I was concerned about a couple of steps that the Russian government took in the last several days. One was reducing the energy supplies to Czechoslovakia. "
These recent instances of old-person map syndrome weren't the first time the Senator has referred to the country that officially dissolved in 1993, splitting into the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
Its McCain- maybe these gaffes are partly from fatigue, but perhaps he does see the world as it was in his POW era days- he certainly brings that up every time the questions get tough. Shouldn't we have a leader who is at the top of his game?
