TomT
Well-Known Member
Way to go Ford.
The only reason Ford is not ahead of Toyota is because Toyota's are perceived to be more environmentally friendly. (Who gives a damn?)
New CR consumer poll
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Way to go Ford.
The only reason Ford is not ahead of Toyota is because Toyota's are perceived to be more environmentally friendly. (Who gives a damn?)
Toyota's get no better gas mileage than anything else. Those that claim different are full of crap.
Tom
Tom
TomT
Well-Known Member
I agree but Toyota's were way ahead of Ford in hybrid and like vehicles so they are simple perceived as being more green. But that to will probably change.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
It's funny how things come around.
I've said it before, and this just makes me say it again. These types of reports come down to perception vs reality. Some feel that perception defines reality. To a certain extent, I agree with that.
The question I have with Ford's new favor is: What changed more here - perception or reality?
I think Toyota did get a little complacent from an engineering standpoint. I think Ford has caught up on many fronts.
The problem with perception-based reality is that sometimes those that know the truth are most befuddled by such reports.
Was Toyota ever really that good? Is Ford really that much better now?
Those are interesting questions, but I submit that only a fool would debate them. I say that because they really don't matter. Such questions are debated through so-called facts, but the facts are subjective. At the end of the day the only thing that really matters is raw, hard sales numbers...because they are the best guage of what the consumer values.
TJR
I've said it before, and this just makes me say it again. These types of reports come down to perception vs reality. Some feel that perception defines reality. To a certain extent, I agree with that.
The question I have with Ford's new favor is: What changed more here - perception or reality?
I think Toyota did get a little complacent from an engineering standpoint. I think Ford has caught up on many fronts.
The problem with perception-based reality is that sometimes those that know the truth are most befuddled by such reports.
Was Toyota ever really that good? Is Ford really that much better now?
Those are interesting questions, but I submit that only a fool would debate them. I say that because they really don't matter. Such questions are debated through so-called facts, but the facts are subjective. At the end of the day the only thing that really matters is raw, hard sales numbers...because they are the best guage of what the consumer values.
TJR
TomT
Well-Known Member
I've owned several Toyota's and Ford's during my lifetime. My wife still drives a 2006 RAV4 which fit our needs more at the time than any Ford vehicle that was available. Most all my Toyota's have been great vehicles as well as my Fords (except for the Bronco II I had in the 80's which was the biggest POS I have ever owned). I do agree with you TJR that Toyota has become complacent, much like American manufacturer's had become in the 70's and it would not be my first choice today for sure. I truly believe Ford is making a better product these days and should be commended for it even though I'm still peeved they dropped the ST.
gary s
Well-Known Member
"Toyota's get no better gas mileage than anything else. Those that claim different are full of crap."
curious, how did you come to that conclusion?
tjr,
"I think Toyota did get a little complacent from an engineering standpoint. I think Ford has caught up on many fronts."
i agree 1000% with your statement, but for me toy dropped the ball big. as mentioned, i was very disappointed with the recall situation. they did respond and clear my recalls immediately. i still am very confident they build above average quality vehicles and i will continue to support them. ford has done an excellent job at improving and i am sure they will continue to excell.
"At the end of the day the only thing that really matters is raw, hard sales numbers...because they are the best guage of what the consumer values."
CY 2010, on a daily selling rate basis, toy retained the retail sales crown. lexus repeated luxury sales leader.
camry again the best-selling passenger car for the 9th time, and corolla, tacoma, and the lexus rx repeated as segment leaders for CY2010.
toy also was the industry leader in certified used vehicle sales setting an industry record at 315K vehicles in 2010 as well.
is it, preception is reality or reality is preception? :grin:
"
curious, how did you come to that conclusion?
tjr,
"I think Toyota did get a little complacent from an engineering standpoint. I think Ford has caught up on many fronts."
i agree 1000% with your statement, but for me toy dropped the ball big. as mentioned, i was very disappointed with the recall situation. they did respond and clear my recalls immediately. i still am very confident they build above average quality vehicles and i will continue to support them. ford has done an excellent job at improving and i am sure they will continue to excell.
"At the end of the day the only thing that really matters is raw, hard sales numbers...because they are the best guage of what the consumer values."
CY 2010, on a daily selling rate basis, toy retained the retail sales crown. lexus repeated luxury sales leader.
camry again the best-selling passenger car for the 9th time, and corolla, tacoma, and the lexus rx repeated as segment leaders for CY2010.
toy also was the industry leader in certified used vehicle sales setting an industry record at 315K vehicles in 2010 as well.
is it, preception is reality or reality is preception? :grin:
"
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2010
Ford sold more vehicles than Toyota did.
Nuff said.
Tom
Ford sold more vehicles than Toyota did.
Nuff said.
Tom
Robert Caffyn
Well-Known Member
Just saw on the news that Toyota and Nissan are ready to sell 100% electric vehicles. This will leave Ford as the last hold-out, unless they have something in the pipeline. I really think the environmental issue will win them out as clear leaders in the sales race. Bob
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gary s
Well-Known Member
"Nuff said."
homework assignment incomplete. the original question was to your quote" Toyota's get no better gas mileage than anything else. Those that claim different are full of crap."
again, how did you come to this conclusion?????
bob c., not 100% elec, but avg 75 mpg.
drove one in june
no doubt toy hybrid tech is well ahead of the industry
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homework assignment incomplete. the original question was to your quote" Toyota's get no better gas mileage than anything else. Those that claim different are full of crap."
again, how did you come to this conclusion?????
bob c., not 100% elec, but avg 75 mpg.
drove one in june
no doubt toy hybrid tech is well ahead of the industry
[Broken External Image]:
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Gary,
Average vehicle to average vehicle.
Toyota Yaris to Ford Fiesta
Ford F-150 to Toyota Tundra
Ford Fusion to Toyota Camry
Toyota RAV4 to Ford Escape
Tom
Average vehicle to average vehicle.
Toyota Yaris to Ford Fiesta
Ford F-150 to Toyota Tundra
Ford Fusion to Toyota Camry
Toyota RAV4 to Ford Escape
Tom
I drove a Fiat 600 in the mid to late '60s, and it got 30 to 40 mpg. And, that was when gas was significantly less expensive. Now that is ahead of its time. :driving:
I don't care if I got me to the moon and back running only on happy thoughts, those are so ugly that you would never catch me driving one, let alone ask me to PAY for it. Looks do still matter to some people. Toyota is way behind in that category IMO.
Ford is ahead of the game again. That's my perception; fit it to whatever reality you live in.
Ford is ahead of the game again. That's my perception; fit it to whatever reality you live in.
gary s
Well-Known Member
fuel mileage avg mfg vs mfg?
"those are so ugly that you would never catch me driving one"
more to a vehicle then looks. i happen to like the aerodynamic look of the prius. it is just an indivduals taste.
"those are so ugly that you would never catch me driving one"
more to a vehicle then looks. i happen to like the aerodynamic look of the prius. it is just an indivduals taste.
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I had a Ford EXP that got 44 mpg on the highway in the early '80s. Too bad that will never happen again thanks to ETHANOL GAS. :fire::fire::fire:
Gavin,
My Dad had a 1988 Escort GL 4 Speed that would get him 43 MPG. Those early Escorts were real gas sippers.
Tom
My Dad had a 1988 Escort GL 4 Speed that would get him 43 MPG. Those early Escorts were real gas sippers.
Tom
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
1600 cc manual transmission. Cd of .36! ~2000 pounds! :banana::banana::banana:
This was a 1.9L with a 4 speed manual (the 5 speed manual got 5 MPG LESS than the 4 speed) and it was shaped like a shoebox.
Tom
Tom
As previously stated, Consumer Polls are all based on perception, which may or may not be reality.
Also remember that Ford got a lot of support from the US citizens for not taking any Bail-Out money, and their profits immediately began to soar. At the same time Toyota had the sudden acceleration problem that they handled badly, and the other US automakers were all on the verge of bankrupcy. The perception was that buying a Ford would help the US economy, without realizing that Toyota's and Honda's, etc are also have factories in the US and make many of their vehicles in the US using American workers.
I'm sure Ford products have gotten better but how much better is not clear. But for now, Ford can take those Perceived improvements in Quality to the bank and I'm sure they are happy.
...Rich
Also remember that Ford got a lot of support from the US citizens for not taking any Bail-Out money, and their profits immediately began to soar. At the same time Toyota had the sudden acceleration problem that they handled badly, and the other US automakers were all on the verge of bankrupcy. The perception was that buying a Ford would help the US economy, without realizing that Toyota's and Honda's, etc are also have factories in the US and make many of their vehicles in the US using American workers.
I'm sure Ford products have gotten better but how much better is not clear. But for now, Ford can take those Perceived improvements in Quality to the bank and I'm sure they are happy.
...Rich
