My Recent Road Rage Story

[Thomas Rogers]

Rampo said:

If everyone used both lanes, then both lanes would equally fill up so it would take the same amount of time to get through the pinch point as it would if everyone lined up two miles early. So why do traffic engineers encourage you to use both lanes until the merge?

Rampo, it would seem that way, and if you were following Caymen's water pressure analogy it would be that way. But auto traffic is not as fluid as water.



ONE line of cars TWO miles long moving at stop and go speeds moves SLOWER than TWO lines of cars ONE mile long. It's the same amount of cars, but the increased number of cars in the one mile stretch causes longer delays due to the reactive/delay nature of stop and go across more cars in the line.



Once the line delay surpasses the rate at which cars can put put through the pinch point (even in a zippered fashion) then the line delay is the bottleneck, and that is a function of the line length. Shorten the length and you decrease the delay.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BeerDelivery said:

Road rage, happens from those people that cut or block traffic and they then think they have the right to cuss, flick off, or blow the horn at, like the other person was in the wrong. If they were following the rules of the road, then they did nothing incorrect.

Thanks BD. I owe you a beer.



TJR

 

[Andy Chase]

But if people can maintain speed and merge at a similar speed into one lane, there is no stop and go. Unless something further up the road is preventing traffic from maintaining the speed such as a worker w/ a slow/stop sign.



I do have to share what happened to me on my way home last night. The situation was similar, 2 left turn lanes, the right left turn lane ends 1/4mile down the road. I was driving safe distance behind car in front of me w/ a large gap behind me. Chick in a cobalt talking on her phone speeds up in the right lane and when she gets alongside of me (at the pinch point) and starts to veer into my lane because she is following the white stripe on the right. I had to slam on my breaks to avoid getting side swiped at 55 mph. These are the people, that the ones that are in disagreement with TJR, despise. She had plenty of room to get in behind me but chose to think shes more important than me or my ST. Of course, she ended up turning a mile up the road which slowed me down again.:angry:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy said:

But common curtosy for most drivers will merge early, thats why only 3% of the drivers in the one study rode till the end, most got in where they fit in before the end

What is "early" and what is "the end" in that study? I still had 1 mile of a 2 mile closure WARNING. I wasn't in the closure point yet, still the warning leading up to it.



Could "early" have been 1/2 mile before? 1/4 of a mile before? Would "the end" have been at the pinch point? 1/10th of a mile before?



I'm just trying to say that such studies without definitions are pretty vague.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

STATISTICS so far of those who chimed in and said that I was WRONG/RUDE, and those that said what I did was OK (not counting PRM because I don't know how to characterize his response since it seems to be on the fence):





Wrong/Rude: 5



OK: 14



TJR

 

[Andy Chase]

TJR, if you really wanted to look at who agrees/disagrees with you, take a look at where everyone is from, most might be from similar states where driving habits are similar. Also, not enough people have piped in to this discussion, some may not want to, others may not care to. When I have discussed this in the office, 1 person didn't care, but he said people that do it are jerks, and he admitted he's a jerk when driving. The other people all agree that people that merge at the end are jerks and are rude. Again, you wanted our opinion and we are letting you know what we think. There isn't a right or wrong, we're just debating.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy, that other lane had already started to slow. Granted it wasn't stop and go yet, and not even slowed to the point 1 mile back that I couldn't have merged in at any time.



In your happy world it would seem that you would hope that people would recognize the back of the line and get in it (so it seems). That seems rather simplistic and unachieveable to me.



Again, Andy, your example yesterday isn't the same. I didn't and wasn't waiting until the piinch point. I wasn't riding the narrowing line into the pinch. I wasn't talking on my cellphone, I wasn't driving at an excessive speed, and I wasn't going to and didn't cut anyone off to get to the left lane.



Yes, I expect those that saw me drive by and then cut me off expected I might ride the lane until the "bitter end" and do just those things. But they don't know that I would...they would be assuming. Their rage is theirs, caused by their bias and their beliefs. I did nothing that should have fueled it IMHO.



People need to get past their baggage.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy regarding your office poll did you ask:



Do you think people should drive up to the end of a merge point and then merge, or do you think they should merge earlier?





I would agree that people should merge before the merge point if/when they can when traffic is still moving readily. That was my case. I could still merge readily and I had plenty of room ahead (1 mile) before the merge point. I would have merged before the closure.



I should have been able to go up further, unimpeded by jerks, IMHO.



I think that's the big difference of opinion here. I wasn't trying to drive to the very end, I just saw no reason to merge THAT early.



Also, Andy, as for the RIGHT/WRONG aspect of this debate, sure, there is a matter of opinion. However, we should look at the facts and what is legal and what is illegal for determing right/wrong, and remove that from opinion and emotion:



RIGHT - It is legal to continue to use an open lane until the merge point.



RIGHT - It is legal to merge at any time as long as you signal your intentions and yield the right of way to the traffic in the lane you are merging in to.



RIGHT - Traffic studies have shown that LATE MERGE with the use of a zipper reduces delays and increases throughput on heavily congested highways.



WRONG - It is illegal to drive recklessly and to NOT yield to traffic in a lane that you are changing into (those that swerve to cut people off in the clear lane are guilty of that).



WRONG - It is wrong to straddle a line and take up two lanes.



Those are the RIGHT/WRONG aspects of what happened to me that day. From the law/facts, I was never in the WRONG.



Questions, comments, emotions, debate of whether what I did was curtious are worthwhile, but they are SUBJECTIVE. For those areas of the debate, I agree, there is no concrete RIGHT and WRONG.



TJR

 

[Gerald Pierce]

With the Pt cruiser, I may have just hit him for being an idiot but only if I could play it off that he pulled in front of me and I had no time to brake. You can do that with a 7 year old truck.



But as for the passing everyone up that is in line, it's all relative. TJR says he wasn't going all the way to the front, he just wasn't ready to merge.... Where is the cut off on being right or wrong (or rude/polite -- pick your poison). IMHO, if everyone else was in line, you were being an a$$hole for going past them. They have already gotten into a line as to reduce their wait time (and those in front of them by not having to be let in) and you think you are better than the rest. If it is already bumper to bumper, you are to late. If not, you are ok.

 

[Bill V]

Andy, did the same sort of informal poll at my work. And the people were pretty evenly split among four groups:



--People who have always known about and preferred to use all lanes up until the pinch point

--People who who previously thought you should all get in one lane, but had heard the recent news stories, and have since changed to thinking you should use all lanes

--People who think one lane should be used, but were unaware that any traffic experts recommend otherwise

--Poeple who think one lane should be used, heard the news stories, but still think that the experts are wrong and will therefore continue to use one lane (and, in one case, will continue to get irrationally upset at anyone who thinks differently, and to try to enforce their way of doing it on others while driving)

 

[Andy Chase]

I am fine if drivers get in a little further down the line if they can't readily get in safely. However yesterday when I asked you said had they not done those things you would have rode till the end.



For the office poll I asked when one lane ends, when do you merge over?



Lets just agree to disagree on this topic so we can get on with other topics that are related to our ST's, besides I think the boss wants me to get back to work.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Cruz said:

They have already gotten into a line as to reduce their wait time

Again, studies have shown that their actions will ultimately INCREASE their wait time, mine will DECREASE them. People need to know that I think.



And he said:

and you think you are better than the rest.

Nope, I don't. I think I deserve to drive an open lane, that's all. They chose to move over.



Cruz also said:

If it is already bumper to bumper, you are to late. If not, you are ok.

It wasn't yet bumper to bumper. The left lane was moving around 10mph, with some stop and go, and the right lane was clear. It was the start of "textbook" traffic congestion memory. Still, at that point, I was one mile back.



Nearer the merge it was already stop and go.



So going to the front to be let in (which isn't what I did), wasn't going to make the back any slower. Only so many cars at a time can go through the merge once it is stop and go, and zippering them from two lanes, vs all coming from one isn't the bottleneck at that point...the bottleneck becomes the delay of the line (lines) of cars.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy said:

yesterday when I asked you said had they not done those things you would have rode till the end.

I did?



I thought I said this (cut/paste from above):

Andy, yes, I would have rode further down the road, until the merge point or shortly before.

That doesn't sound like me saying until the end. That sounds like what I have been saying, that I would have drove further, until near the end...sure, worse case was the end. But again, that was never my intentions.



I would have moved over, further down, taking my easiest, least obstructive merge closer to the end.



I wouldn't have driven to the very end, stopped because I couldn't go on any further, put on my blinker and started playing chicken.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy said:

For the office poll I asked when one lane ends, when do you merge over?

I submit that question is misleading/vague.



In my case, from my perspective, the lane I was in wasn't ending for another one mile. That's why I wasn't moving over yet.



Sure, when the lane actually starts to taper/narrow and then ENDS, everyone should be merging over.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy said:

Lets just agree to disagree on this topic...

Fine. As long as in the future when you are stuck in a line of traffic at a merge, and the other lane that is to be closed miles ahead is still open, and clear, and you see someone driving down it you don't feel ill towards them...because now, you have been enlightened that they are actually helping the situation, not hurting it.



Pass on the news...



TJR

 

[Gypsy me]

Nope TJR you were not wrong. You were in defensive driver mode.(and really sounds like you had to be) Sounds like there was alot of in a hurry jerks on the road that day.



Nothing wrong with using either lane once you see the sign that the lane is ending and I would say it's ok to use either one that ables you to exit off safely.



Now, as in most states PA does have a law, that the left lane should not be used except for passing. In other words we really are not suppose to ride the left lane.

But in your situation, and seeing that the one lane was ending, I would have done the same.



and since we are all talking about driving and the like, One law that I see most drivers break (nation wide) is when they come on to a freeway or highway and cross the solid white line before it ends (merging on to a freeway or highway) Big fine in Az and a few other states if somebody gets caught doing that. An AZ highway patrolman was killed from an idiot that crossed this, from merging on too soon. I forget what the actual law is called, they named it after the AZ cop that was killed.



What I love best is when somebody is just in such a rush to get to that next light or exit before me...and I end up passing them anyway by just driving normal. :lol:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

GM...I too hate that.



You are behind a long line of cars on an on-ramp, and you have a merge lane and to the left of you is a solid white line. Some grandpa ahead of you can't quite get his car up to crusiing speed, so you are slow on the merge. Some yahoo BEHIND you crosses the solid white and screws it up for everyone as he becomes yet another car the merging folks have to worry about.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

GM...



Oh, that's another WRONG for my list.



You are right. NY is the same way (I think)...Use left-lane for passing only. Since the right lane was still open and clear for 1+ miles, all those in the left lane prematurely were breaking the law.



Bwahahaha.



TJR

 

[Bill V]

GM, I assume you mean the solid DOUBLE white line. It is perfectly legal to cross a single solid white line between lanes of traffic--although that is another traffic law that is commonly misunderstood among the general public.



Broken white line--lane changes allowed

Solid white line--lane changes discouraged

Solid double white line--lane changes illegal



There's a tunnel here in downtown Minneapolis, on I-94, that has solid single white lines separating the lanes. And I frequently hear people complaining about other drivers "illegally" crossing the white lines. They're always dumbfounded to hear that those actions were perfectly legal.

 

[Les]

In Florida white lines only divide the road, solid yellow line means no passing...